Ohhhh…so they made M Hakkesho max out her juggle limit in one rep??? That is so stupid!!! The only problem I really see with this, and it is kind of big, is I know some combos with Xiaoyu I’ve seen in online matches include tag canceling her in and then using M Hakkesho to quickly close in and start her loop. Now that the juggle limit automatically maxes out when she hits M Hakkesho, it eliminates all of those possible combos, which is a pretty big problem I think, but Chun doesn’t really have any combos that work as such…
Did some more testing and rufus and raven and prob more do more dmg, which makes fucing sense considering that she has the worst defense in the game
O ya and nina
Yes. That’s the other reason why I made that suggestion to cancel the recovery frames. Her stance moves could become alot more useful if they can be used immediately upon entering. That way, the focus could be made to her normal attacks, and not her special attacks. Making st jab 4 frame startup would be the best change for her normals, unless they made cr jab have way more range.
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Cr mp is terrible for several reasons. Making it special cancelable doesn’t change it’s main poor qualities. It’s range is almost the same as cl mp, except close mp is better since it can special cancel and its faster. If there were to be any changes here what should occur is a complete change to the move. They could make it have 5 active frames, then 6 non active, and then 5 active frames again instead of its current 2(12)2. They could then make the second part move her forward alot more so if the first part whiffs which you could do intentionally to trick them, then they could get hit by the second. As the move is now though, you can hit with the first part and completely whiff the second hit. That is not good.
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Having st mp crushing high attacks would be extremely OP so I would seriously disagree there.
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She definitely does not need this. Her hit confirms are already pretty good with st jab having excellent range and +7 on hit.
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I actually previously had the same thought, but I believe that it is a better idea to improve her other normals more importantly such as st lp (make it 4 frames) cr mp and st lk. If the stances could cancel into their moves immediately, and if you make st lk special cancelable, then st lk could be way more useful.
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This is completely unnecessary. It would not help her at all since she has many ways to launch you already, which are safer and faster and have better range.
Thank you. I agree.
Definitely not. It does not fulfill that purpose at all to stop block strings. It has a 21 frame startup, so all its stopping are slow recovery moves like special attacks. Also capcom shouldn’t have problems working with any of her moves. Even if wave crest did not work, which there is no reason why it shouldn’t since you should be able to program another animation that looks like wave crest altogether, they could have made it look like storming flower or hakkesho.
so post patch whats the damage?
If I recall, you can only have one or two bound moves. So, with Xiaoyu using Hakkesho in a Cyanide juggle, she reaches the limit. The problem is that she has no real use for Hakkesho outside of Cyanide and Happiness. For everything that looks like you can combo into it, the move is too slow to land.
I think you can combo into LP Hakkesho after cl.st.HP, but I don’t know why you would given all the other damage opportunities off cl.st.HP.
Sorry, I was talking about juggling.
I actually think Rufus got hit harder than Xiaoyu when it comes to nerfing. Justin Wong and Ricky Ortiz commented on his change and they said he really got hurt bad. He dive kick is no longer safe on block and is -3 unless you hit them below the belt which requires difficult placing for constantly moving characters. If you block his dive kick, any 3 frame startups will completely open Rufus up and make him vulnerable, so his dive kick is pretty pointless on some of the cast now, and without it he doesn’t really have good pressure options. So I think added damage on his part wasn’t too bad of an idea.
That makes sense, but even if I tag cancel into Xiaoyu during Chun’s SBK and hit M Hakkesho, I still can’t hit anything afterwards and it is the only ground bounce in the combo I used…
On the topic of Xiaoyu’s alpha counter, perhaps I simply misunderstand some things. Why does it need to be improved, exactly? From what I know, some Alpha Counters do not allow a follow up combo by using meter to tag in your partner. Some Alpha Counters also do not down the opponent long enough that you can safely hard tag out. Xiaoyu’s does both of these things, and because of that I was of the opinion she has a fairly good one. I admit I don’t have info on everyone’s alpha counters, but I know the others that I’ve looked at don’t really seem quite as good.
I’m aware that her alpha counter is slow and less damaging than some, but for what it allows for seemed like a fine trade off to me.
Just because he is no longer safe on a ridiculously powerful attack that leads to insane damage doesn’t change the fact that the move is still powerful. Many characters have moves that they need, but are way more unsafe, so complaining about being -3 is stupid. Especially if he can be at -2 or -1 if spaced right. His dive kick is very powerful. He already does a ton of damage. He does NOT need more damage.
The reason why it needs to be improved is because Xaioyu has the worst defense in the game and the lowest health (besides Akuma), and the slowest alpha counter. Combine those factors together, and it is disastrous. Her fastest jab of sufficient range is 5 frames making it nearly impossible to poke someone out of pressure. She has zero attacks with invulnerable frames for the first 8 frames. Her alpha counter is 21 frame startup which means that even if you alpha counter, the opponent can finish their move, block your alpha counter and you will be at -2 allowing them to continue pressuring.
She has NOTHING to defend herself with once she is in the corner. No reversals, no counters, and no alpha counters. Please read my post above (#871) to see how unfair it is that other characters who don’t need it, have overwhelmingly better alpha counters like Kazuya. Alpha counters don’t need to guarantee a safe tag out. They need to guarantee that it will get you out of pressure first! Xiaoyu’s doesn’t get you out at all.
Also mostly everyone’s alpha counter is a hard knockdown and does 100 damage, if not a little bit more. Damage is not important here. Function is.
Adding on to that, I actually was unaware earlier, but I found out that his dive kick no longer crosses up unless he is close to the peak of his jump (even when the opponent is getting up), this makes it a terrible crossup and if it is blocked it is -3 on block, spacing is a way to decrease it to -2 or -1, but according to those who play him, the only way to get a fairly safe dive kick is to hit the opponent around their feet, and to be able to space yourself correctly so that you only hit their feet is quite a challenge, not saying it can’t be done, but I am saying it can’t be done consistently. And if you hit them at their feet, you obviously aren’t crossing them up. So I think his damage output is justified after reading into that, but I do see where you were coming from.
You’re right, doing a bit more research, hers is completely overshadowed by some alpha counters. However, even though it’s the slowest, it has it’s uses. It’s probably one of the least reliable to use for defense, but I’m thankful it at least has some of the other qualities that it does.
On the other hand, she does have the same thing everyone else has to defend herself. Raw launchers are invincible to low attacks and have a huge pay off if they land. Of course they also carry their large risk to go with their large reward, but it’s something as opposed to nothing. She’s also blessed with a very powerful anti air as you mentioned before, maybe even the most rewarding. The only thing that I think would really be a bother to deal with would be jab pressure in the corner from someone like Raven or Cammy, I suppose.
If they ever buff her alpha counter, I certainly won’t complain. I’ve always preferred to block and save my meter for specials/super/etc anyway, so I’m biased.
So I actually found out something interesting with the nerfed M and H Hakkeshos. Normally in a juggle state, if you try to connect M or H Hakkesho you can’t juggle with anything else in the new version, however I tested a combo with Juri on point connecting her H pinwheel then tag cancelling to Xiaoyu and it turns out M and H Hakkesho can be followed up afterwards since pinwheel was hitting the opponent when they were **grounded, **however the juggle potential has been cut in half since you can only juggle 3 sweeps afterwards instead of 6 like usual. You also cannot do sweep into super or cross art unless you do it after the Hakkesho itself. I haven’t tested it with other characters moves that launch similarly to Juri’s pinwheel so I’ll look into that another time.
But now that I think about it, Capcom could have just nerfed the M Hakkesho and not the heavy one as well. Since she couldn’t do the infinite off the H version anyways, you could still connect it off of her overhead and all the same tag cancel combos given you just change the timing to juggle it. It sounds so smart but Capcom was just like “Nerf dat hoe! Arrrggghh!!!” Oh well. This is still better that nothing for me at least.
I want to learn her so bad. I just don’t know where to start…smh 
It’s sad, the easiest way to remove the infinite would’ve been to just make M Hakkesho a tad slower. It’s not like we use it has utility outside of combos anyway.
I can’t complain too much though. She can still get 6 sweeps, Cyanide was untouched afaik, Ex Change of Fortune still has super armor, and she still has all her shenanigans. She’s still good in my eyes.
Indeed shes still good but its not about that. Its About Hakkesho being a totally useless move now. Yes other characters have moves that are not widely used but they still got their purpose while now hakkesho is just totally pointless. The only use Hakkesho had was to lead into the loop and add damage but now is totally worthless. I guess ill just wait for evo and see what they come up with with hakkesho im sure someone will figure something out! XD
Last night I went up against a Ryu/Ken team who basically abused shoryukens and kept doing a few hits before jumping over you to do a mixup (rarely tatsumaki). I couldn’t beat him because I want able to jump-in (he would SRK me), I could air-to-air him because Ryu’s j.:hk: is godlike in terms of air moves (at least against both Chun and Xiao), and I couldn’t cr.:hk: his mixups because Xiao wouldn’t change the way she was facing until it was too late to do it. How would you guys go upon facing someone like this. I know Wave Crest can go under tatsumakis, but he barely did tatsumaki cross ups, just normal ones and I couldn’t do anything against him (at least stuff I knew). His Ken’s SRK (IDK which one) could beat both Wave Crest and Cyanide if I tried to use them btw since the startup on that SRK is a bit too good.
If ryus using j.hk an has intent on hittin u than u should be able to sweep aa it and if they’re going for close ranges jumps it should be easier to a-to-a it or u could use xio’s speed and dash underneath it or sometimes even walk uunderneath. And there’s a range where u want to stay at against ken unless u think he’s gonna step kick u don’t want to be around the range about a jab outside of step kick range cuz blockin it and aa’in it becomes harder. And xio’s backdash is good use it to make dp’s whiff or backdash when they tag in osing is hard in this game so abuse backdash unless they blantanly go out of there way to punish it. And if u make the dp whiff using aop then use elbow to hit there recovery, wave crest isn’t wat goes under tatsus aop is iirc
I experienced my first online ragequit yesterday while playing SFxT in Ranked.
Some guy (who was terrible at the game) messaged me after I beat him, complaining about how Xiaoyu’s sweep juggle is “cheap” and “broken.” I responded with a civil, yet firm response explaining that it’s not an infinite but a loop, why Xiaoyu needs it and how hard Xiaoyu has to work for her wins, given that she has poor reversal options and very few answers to offensive pressure.
I happen to get matched against him a few matches later, and before I can get five reps into the first sweep juggle, he disconnected.
Oh the sweet taste of victory.
Also, if they gave Hakkesho projectile invulnerability for a decent number of frames, it could be used as a better reactionary tool against fireballs, and then it would at least have a use - not only does it avoid fireballs, but it also gets Xiaoyu in close range where she is more effective, without dealing a stupid amount of damage since it doesn’t juggle.
Too bad it has no invincibility though… imo that would be the only change she’d need to make Hakkesho useful.
If they gave it full invincibility on startup it could actually be used as a viable reversal, but then she’d be too good probably.