Users: Why is it that I can’t land Ryu’s Shoryuken three times in one combo, but Raven can just loop his crouching Hard Punch over and over? Please fix the juggle limits.
Ayano: We are looking into changes into the air combo system.
They are looking into changing the juggling system.
I think the reason people are complaining about Ryu’s is because can’t Ken link 2 DPs if he hits them out of the air? Can Ryu do the same thing? I think linking 3 DPs a bit excessive, but I can see them changing it to 2. However, I do strongly think Ryu’s donkey kick should get nerfed, I feel like it is too safe and Ryu is already too good of a character in this game right now.
On the topic of Xiao, yeah, I do hope they give her other damaging options besides the breakdance loop (if they plan to nerf it), right now people view her as a one trick pony which isn’t good, but at the same time, she only has that one-trick to deal damage, Capcom can cure this by just giving her other damaging options.
That’s a similar thing I fear with King. Both of them have a damaging option. The problem is, that’s their only ones. Sure, King has his “grabs”, but the reward you get from properly guessing is no where near the amount of reward you get from a proper reading by even Xiaoyu.
Imo if they made the juggle system linear chars would be broken and Idt half the people that ask for changes no wat they’re talking about. Ken can link a light dp into a hdp cuz that’s just one of his tools y would anyone ask for more dmg for ryu certain chars moves have different juggle properties that’s wat makes them different chars that’s like asking for ken to have the same fb as ryu.
I hope capcom doesn’t listen to the idiots and only change wat needs to change
What Xaioyu needs most by far is a way to get out of the corner. She is so helpless since she has no reversal, and her normal attacks are poor and her jump is poor. She needs an alpha counter that has 10 frame startup or less. I think that would be fair.
If her damage output gets lowered significant then they should also buff her normals.
I do think Capcom should listen to SOME of the changes that people are complaining about. Instead of addressing the Raven/Ryu problem by increasing the amount of times Ryu can DP, how about instead just decrease the number of times Raven can hit his cr.:hp:. The reason I say that is because Ryu and Raven are being debated as two of the best, if not the two best characters in the game tier-wise. A lot of people have problems with n00b Ravens running out the clock spamming ninja stars and teleporting.
When it comes to Xiaoyu in the corner, I think she is fine is most situations, she just needs more damage output and different properties for some of her moves. I think in a corner, she can either roll out if they knock her down, or if she can at least get a hit in, she can cancel into RD and then go into EX Turn of Fortune because that has super armor and moves a decent amount. I think her wakeup game could be altered slightly, but from what I’ve seen, spamming her backdash is fine for now.
Less frame recovery on block for normal california roll kick and back layout, it’s way too risky right now apart from easily seen setup or going for the kill,it should be neutral at least since we already have no guard. Ex california roll could use invincibility frame against normal and/or projectile but not throw a la marseille roll in sf4 allowing us to close in for one bar but still remain in raindance.
And some changes for Ex hakkesho mainly the slow startup which make it near impossible to combo into it for decent damage/bar usage.Right now it’s even impossible to punish an extremely close blocked hp shoryuken from ken (I talk a lot about him but it’s mainly so everyone could see what i’m talking about) with it since he fly too high and if you do it early it’s a cross down and you whiff, if you do it later it’s so slow he already recovered. If you really want a wake up reversal make ex hakkesho 2 hit armor (with the slow startup), it would fit her “armored ex theme” but i don’t think its necessary her backdash is already one of the best.
Certain characters can do a really damaging combo in the corner and on knockdown force you to either roll towards the corner or just stay in the corner while they get to continue pressuring you in the corner. Xiaoyu and ibuki are two characters that I know of that can do that. Xaioyu’s combo does significantly more damage, but facing Ibuki in the corner is far more scary, since her frame traps are crazy and she can combo from really far. Xaioyu’s main jab is 5 frames and ibuki’s is 3 frames. Even though Xaioyu’s cr jab is 4 frames it has such short range that I miss sometimes when I think I’m going to hit, but the 5 frame jab is just too slow, so she just stays stuck there.
Oh, I do see what you mean, I know that is what alpha counters are for, but I think Xiao’s alpha counter range is a bit short, right? Can’t Ibuki easily stay out of that range and still pressure?
I find the support for alpha counters to be too much. What if you have no meter to begin with? I guess that’s strategy for you.
The range is good enough. The real problem is the startup being 21 frames. That is so unbelievably bad. It is the worst one in the game by alot, and for no good reason. If you alpha counter and get blocked which is most likely to happen, then you are at -2, so they could continue their pressure. Why couldn’t the alpha counter be wave crest with a 7 frame startup and -3 on block?
A good portion of the cast can’t escape pressure well without meter so that would only be leveling the playing field a
bit. There is no reason for her alpha counter to be so bad when she has no reversal and no tools that are extremely powerful. I believe that most of the cast should have viable alpha counters anyways so that it could fulfill its purpose. I find that characters who need the alpha counter have weak ones (Xaioyu, Vega), and characters who don’t need it like Ken or shouldn’t have good ones like Dhalsim have very powerful ones.
Look at Kazuya. He has several viable reversals, but also has great tools, great mixups, excellent damage output, 1,000 HP and an excellent if not one of the best alpha counters in the game. 7 frame startup AND +1 on block. What makes Xaioyu so powerful that she doesn’t deserve a decent alpha counter? Nothing.
Even Dhalsim with his ridiculously powerful moveset has one of the best alpha counters in the game. It does 140 damage, 7 frame startup and -1 on block.
Xaioyu has weak low attacks, and everything about her jumping is really bad. She has terrible health, and no reversal. She has the worst alpha counter in the game. She has great speed/damage output and an excellent overhead. She has good AA but most of her special attacks are poor. Her normals are average.
She deserves a useful alpha counter for her low hp and terrible defense tools. Aside from the alpha counter, she deserves a 4 frame standing jab and maybe some other changes to some of her normals since she has alot of bad normals.
Xaioyu definitely has some weak special attacks, but I think the focus should be to slightly improve a few normals and improve her alpha counter or her means of defending herself.
I think that something that could help significantly is if she could cancel the starting frames of phoenix stance and rain dance into any of those special attacks. That way she will be able to semi use a reversal against certain things. Her AA would improve slightly and her protection against fireballs since she could reflect projectiles quicker. Furthermore she won’t be able to abuse it by canceling the stances earlier, since you would only be able to cancel the early frames of the stance with one of the stance moves; Such as normal attack phoenix stance cancel, and then cancel that into another normal attack.
In short:
This is what Xaioyu needs.
Her being able to cancel the recovery frames of her stances (as they’re referred to in the guide) into anything would be an absolute God send for her combo potential. Flower Power actually becomes combo viable.
Here are some more changes I think would be cool, not counting the aforementioned ones:
So… I think the balance patch came out for PSN. I can’t seem to land Xiaoyu’s cr.HK after Hakkesho (after Cyanide). So you have to do cr.HK immediately after Cyanide from what it seems. The patch came out a little earlier than I thought it would.
Gonna explore some changes. You can still land 6 reps of the breakdance.
I used it once on block for getting xiao out of the ring since I knew I was near death and going to get reversal cheaped to death If I stayed, since its 2 hit and pretty much block string, but yeah it’s near useless.
Yup, just confirming what you said. You can no longer do anything really after M Hakkesho -__- I tried all of Xiao’s normals after M Hakkesho after Cyanide and NOTHING HITS. You can tag cancel during M Hakkesho and your partner can continue hitting them, but from the little of tried, Xiao can do nothing after M Hakkesho 
The 6 reps is still there and it seems the rest of Xiao is unchanged, but M Hakkesho is at this point completely pointless since you can’t attack afterwards unless you waste a bar. This is only form what I’ve tried out in the past 10 minutes or so, people may find stuff around it, but if none of her normals hit, I don’t see how anything else will.
I think the reason Cyanide was given as her alpha counter was because the point of alpha counters was just to stop block strings, nothing else. Get the opponent away and then be able to escape the corner or wherever you were having trouble, you aren’t supposed to be able to combo after them unless you tag cancel out. Perhaps Capcom had problems working with any of her other moves (I don’t think Wave Crest would have ever worked because Capcom would have to have her somehow bypass the AOP stance cancel, so I think they only went with what she could do in her normal stance). The only moves I could think of that Xiao could use are Fortune Cookie or Cyanide, and I’m assuming Fortune Cookie multiple versions and all might have gotten hectic.
That sucks.
I didn’t think it was going to drop altogether.
That’s some bullshit!! That’s a lot of dmg gone just enough for me not to be able to kill in 2 combos anymore!! Wtf.
They should give her dp less startup and a bigger hitbox cuz from a max range elbow she can’t always in with dp
I firmly believe that she needs a 4 frame jab so we could apply true pressure and no that they took away dmg we def need a viable alpha counter
yeah she got worse. i quit. I’m offically done with capcom fighting games. going to play gg and persona 4 arena when they drop,
She is still herself and very much intact, and she isn’t bad, it is just stupid since they made Hakkesho in general completely pointless considering you can’t do anything after any of the Hakkeshos but waste a bar. I wouldn’t be too upset about it, we’ll all learn to get over it, but yes, it does nerf her best damage source thus far -__-
Question, does anyone know how they made M Hakkesho only hit if you tag cancel into a partner? I don’t get it, why can’t Xiao hit any normals but when I switch in Chun, she can do anything to her heart’s desire…just asking cause I’m curious what they did to it.
When you tag out, it resets the juggle limit. She could have her cl.st.HK as an alpha counter, but the devs have gone to mention how much balancing is involved in adding moves. I’d assume replacing them is another problem too.