Let's talk about Sagat

Classic Fighting Games Capcom VS SNK 2
22

Man, I get what you’re saying, and I’m not a clean player by any means. I have the same philosophy, I don’t give a fuck if I get hit by shit, or if I trade, as long as I win. And in CVS2, it’s even worse. I don’t care about winning the round, I just want to do enough damage so I’m still in the game, and can come back in one combo. So yeah, not trying to sound rude, but def don’t need the lesson, I think people like kcjx need to accept the fact that high level SF is fuckin dirty.

Anywaaaay…as for what you’re saying about jumpin combos. I still don’t think it happens almost at all. Like, think about it, if Sagat knows that he can land his damage like that, then so does the other guy if he’s good. Yeah, he may try to bait out that jumpin so he anti-airs Sagat like u said 6 times in a row let’s say, and then maybe he’ll get sick of waiting, and slide and eat the big combo, but I don’t think that’s how it works really. I think the more times u get hit by random shit while going for something risky, the more broken you become, and more often than not, the more mistakes you’ll make, and you’ll straight up lose…possibly badly. I grew up with the mentality that jumping gets you killed, and I believed in this for a long time and still do. I think newer SF games let you jump more, but I still believe 100% that jumping in gets you killed almost all the time.

23

Jump in moderation. Sagat has (arguably) the best ground game and (again arguably) the best ground pokes. He doesnt really need to jump that much. His roll is fast for being such a powerhouse. Far jumpin hk can be hard to deep TU or anti air cleanly.

24

Second probably only to full meter A-Bison, C-Sagat has the best jump-in (as well as roll) in the game. It’s one of his greatest strengths, so it makes sense to use it.

That jump HK has horizontal crazy range, and the hit box even reaches above him in case you need to air-to-air as well.

Jump over one fireball, even from max range —> free far s.HP xx super —> hella damage.

Jump from max range on Blanka —> Blanka CAN’T use d.HP to anti-air you. He gets counter hit every time and you can do a free super combo on him. The only direct counters Blanka can use are to jump up HP or RC ball, but the way you do the jump HK, you can airblock both of those every time. If he tries a tripguard slide, then he’s dead if you decided not to attack in the air (free d.MK xx super). He’s forced to either let you in or use his b+KK hop.

Flexibilty. Adaptibilty. The trademark of all successful warriors. It’s the reason Tae Kwon Do is useless in mixed martial arts. Yeah, it’s traditional, and I was brought up to believe that kicking is the strongest weapon and to do chambered punches from my hip, but if I try that against a Judoka, wrestler, or kickboxer, I’m going to get my ass kicked.

Don’t be so stubborn, critical, and judgemental of others. If it works, just friggin do it. Jump already.

Don’t sweat it, man. You’ve done plenty already (like three times the amount of effort I’ve put in).

We can talk about more top tier matchups next week. I want to discuss A-Bison some more, because even though Sagat supposedly has an advantage over him, according to what my friends tell me and what I read from Desora’s tier chart, A-Bison is still one of my most difficult and frustrating matchups.

25

Show me some videos of a good C-Sagat like Choi’s jumping more than minimally. Jumping does essentially nothing because your opponent will know if he can’t anti-air a max range j. rh, so he’ll BLOCK. And then you have nothing cause you’ll be too far away to follow up. Jumping is good if you have low jump, or if you have a good jumpin that leads to something ambiguous or gets you in somehow. Just jumping in with rh cause you can does nothing.

26

Funny, cuz K-Sagat is probably my most difficult and frustrating matchup for bison. My roommate put Sagat at the end of his team recently and I’ve been getting killed.

27

I think a GOOD example of brute force jumping is Dud vs Chun in 3S. That’s where you can take a few hits but eventually come out on top cause Dudley has retarded combos off a jumpin. I was thinking about this whole issue more, and I actually have to agree to disagree with certain tactics, cause in the end, it’s winning that matters, so if someone has a style or a tactic or whatever that to you is really ugly and sloppy, but it gets the job done, anything else cept the win is irrelevant. If we were talking theoretically, then yeah, a few tactics are statistically proven to be superior, but SF has never been about paper tactics, although it can be discussed in great depth which makes it such a great game to play…you can talk about it with friends at movies, going out to eat, etc and it’s really cool like that. Fuck, I digress. Long live SF and long live doing whatever it takes to win.

28

not vs me nigga

29

wtf?

why would they randomly activate like that?

:frowning:

30

pretty obvious but i find k sagat having a harder time than C sagat vs A bison

31

When someone jumps at your Blanka…

Jump straight up, activate, then mash fierce a bunch of times.

You can get like six fierces in and it does like 4000 damage. When the C-groove guy’s back is to the corner and he airblocks, you get a free tripguard CC with Blanka when you land.

Guys, do me a favor and stay on topic from now on. It makes the thread difficult to read and extract the useful information when there are side conversations or unrelated arguments going on.

32

I know that

But i wouldn’t even bother with that vs Sagat

Especially C. No guarantee

Also, Sagat wouldn’t be in the corner in that match. AT ALL.

33

Hehe actually that was how I killed you that one time…(yes ok only one time)
Knowing when to jump is a great “skill” to learn

34

C-Sagat Vs A-Bison:

Another ‘difficult’ battle, only if you dont know wtf to do in the right situations.

The first thing you should/want to learn is neutral jumping HP. It stops EVERY JUMPING (when timed right) from Bison COLD. Also is pretty good against a full bar Bison. Back jumping HK, Deep TU (VERY deep, so if he crosses you up, Sagat autoturns back) and in some cases, Lvl 2 shot (a very visible front jump, after blocking his devil’s whatever kick attack, and a bad done devil reverse) also work, in the right situations. Backdash against his devilish air stuff is cool too, but it puts you FAST in the corner.

Ok, after (AGAIN) you teach that sonofabitch that he’s not going to jump, or screw around, is time for some beating. When he doesn’t have meter, he WILL try to get it. Dont jump (other than a crossup lk) on front of him, his cr.HP is going to stop you from the right angle. Max range j.HK are realtively safe, but i dont reccomend them, because he can do RC Psycho Crusher, often getting him OUTTA the corner (where we want him).

Well, poke at him w. st.LK as always, and WALK FORWARD A LOT in this match. The secret of this match is to watch out WHEN he’s charged or not for his scissors. When he’s charged, poke carefully (st.lk, cr.HP NON WHIFFED,st.MK sometimes) and WALK, until you are in range to his 2 hit version of Scissors. If he does them, block (walk/poke and block alot, if your reflexes sucks, like mine sometimes :P), and PUNISH with st.lp (wich THANKS to god, he cannot duck) to SUPER if you have it.

If he’s not charged, poke a lot with st.lk/NONwhiffed cr.HP, etc so you can take him to the corner. DO NOT EVERNEVER let him escape with bullshit stuff like the air devil’s, rolls, jumps,and most important: Try to not to jump, to prevent RC PC. Now when he’s there, is simple: work to crush his guard and to Lvl2 >> whatever him after. If you get to close, i reccomend st.lp x2, cr.hp, or throw sometimes. WATCH out for RC scissors, and punish them,as always. Watch him when he has charge.

FULL A-Bison: Tomorrow… I need to sleep…:smiley:

35

K-Sagat vs A-Bison

Dealing with stomps:

When Bison tries to headstomp from midrange, Sagat can dash back on reaction, free close s.HP xx combo.

-If Bison tried the glow hand and whiffs, Sagat gets free tripguard far s.HP xx super.
-If Bison tries to hit you with the glow hand from the front, Sagat gets a free Tiger Uppercut.
-If Bison RC’s the stomp at point blank range, you can JD, then hit him with a High Tiger Cannon super when he tries to fly away.
-If you JD the glow hand, free combo.

Don’t bother using j.HP against any of the stomp moves. It’s not necessary, and if you guess wrong, you eat a glow hand.

You can’t throw any of the RC stomp moves, so don’t bother.

If you JD the one hit Scissors, you get a free Tiger Uppercut (use the MP version for the most damage).

Sagat has a four frame d.MK. Any blocked two hit Scissors are easily punishable with that.

If Bison really messed up and did an accidental blocked two hit Scissors right in your face, you get free s.LP, s.LP xx Tiger Uppercut.

Punish whiffed Scissors with far s.HP xx super.

Ground game:

Sagat’s d.HP is a dominant move to use against Bison.

Anti-air:

Bison can jump in at one specific angle that makes it impossible for Sagat to Tiger Uppercut or super him. If Sagat tries to use jump back HP, Bison can stick out jumping short to beat Sagat as well.

It’s necessary to learn how to “cross-up DP” since whenever you have Bison cornered and controlled on the ground with your Sagat d.HP, he’ll try to jump over your head to escape the corner.

Bison’s corner escapes:
-RC crusher
-RC stomp, neutral stick fly away trick
-teleport (extremely rare since he needs to let go of block)
-jump over your head (extremely common, so cross-up DP him for it)

What’s the best way to deal with walk up, random activate?

36

best option is to just block and take the throw/chip. can’t jump away since bison can catch you with jumping strong…unless you can JD that…

37

nah, I think everyone should be sliding with blanka. If you not sliding atleast once every 10 seconds, YOU AINT REAL.

38

I think buk is trying to say that its better to read your opponent before deciding to not jump in… its the mix up game seperates the great from the champions

and to be a champion you have to make a scrub jump in or scrub activate once in a blue moon and take the offense to the opponent… espically when you have A-bison/blanka ( I hate those characters)

39

Let me smoke some herb first!.. and play me K-GAT…shooting fools. :qcf: :hp:

40

Hey, do almost all of Sagat’s normals combo into specials/supers? I know:

s. jab, cr. jab, s. strong, cr. strong, cl. fierce, cr.fierce s. short, cr. short, cl. forward (1-hit cancel), cr. forward

s.roundhouse (1-hit cancel) thanks CMX

I think that is all. Do some of those have special circumstances, or only cancel into supers and not specials (or vice-versa)?

41

add s.rh 1 hit cancel to that list as well