Iron Man is my favorite Marvel character but I hate him in this game. He’s not fun to control, and that’s the number one requirement for my characters. The problem for me is that the extension characters that I like(Wesker is tied with Magneto for my best character) make my team worse, and the ones that make the team better aren’t fun to use. But regardless, there isn’t really a combination that’s better at getting the first hit than Strider/EMD and that’s the whole point of the team.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nMQPVqLhm44&feature=player_embedded<br><br>Being the resident X23 hitbox player, I’m gonna take a look on whether or not this adds anything to her game later tonight. Dash jumping isn’t anything new, but I like the just frame aspect of this.<br>
Dat Wolverine halfscreen instant overhead…
back to X23, any more tech guys?
Not on my end, unfortunately. Most of my lab time has been on 1 touch win practice, mad hopper unblockables/extensions, IM counter laming. Really trying to grind out for FR this year.
Had my faith in X-23/Strange/Ammy shaken at a tournament a few days ago, ran into a tough fight against a Nova player and then got bodied by another X-23 player, but I’m back to thinking my team is amazing again. I just gotta make some adjustments to my gameplan. I’ll try to get my games uploaded, but until then what do you guys do against Nova? My opponent was using him with Bolts assist and it was absolute hell to catch him. His buttons just seem really good at getting through Laura’s.
Edit: Got one of the matches uploaded.
I drop a lot of really simple combos, but any feedback on things I could do to make the matchup easier is appreciated. He switches to the Nova team after the first game.
Looked like you didn’t really know the Nova matchup. The first thing I noticed is that you left a lot of things unpunished. Basically every time he whiffed a cr.M (slide) or j.S (dive punch), you should have been able to dash in and whiff punish. There were also a few times he ended his blockstrings in st.S, which is -7 on block, but you pushblocked it.
Really simple, but good tech vs. Nova: position yourself into his cr.M range, and neutral jump. If he slides, punish with d.H. If he box dashes at you, d.H anyways for the OS throw. (Do this on reaction, or your d.H will get whiff punished).
General stuff: I’d like to see more active neutral movement. There were tons of times where you’d block a mixup, then just held down-back, resulting in you getting locked down again when you didn’t need to be. Look for the gap in between assist calls to get out, or call your own assist.
Basic stuff: if the opponent is on their last character with xf3 ready, they’re obviously looking for an opportunity to guard cancel - don’t end your blockstrings in unsafe stuff. If you’re doing an incoming meaty, do it with lights into mediums, and be ready to OS into forward H for the throw if he pops XF (otherwise be ready to use your own XF at any moment).
Also, cut your combo short if you’ve caught the assist and not the point char, lol.
Hey. Good match. I don’t think you played bad at all, it’s was a lot better than vs my Nova scene player >.>
Yeah, I know your pain with Nova/Bolts. I look for two things: his air grab or simply not being in the line of fire from the trajectory of his tri-jumps. The problem with that though is that he can fill the air with javelins and keep you at a spacing advantage whenever he wants. If you are crouching from Bolts then chances are you are going to be guessing overheads for days, and his slide is kinda sneaky too but you can beat it with careful prediction from a talon dive. I think Laura his great tools to keep from being locked down from Bolts and allowing the Nova player to get whatever he wants, but you def need to play some sort of defense game with this duo and pick your spots carefully.
I’m not sure what Ammy gives Strange should Laura die. I’m sure you have something available, but if feels like Strange is on a one man mission and can’t utilize CS effectively like Laura can.
Thanks, I really have no idea what moves Nova does that are punishable, so I just kept pushblocking him to get space. I’ll keep those in mind though, because it sounds like I could’ve killed him more than a few times. I almost never have to fight Nova teams but man, when I do it’s a blowup. In terms of when I got his assist and kept the combo going, I knew he was under me so I though I could Talon Dive the assist down and land on Nova at the same time. I was hoping to keep it going or at least get Nova under pressure. Just poor spacing on my part 
The Strange forums suggested I pop Rage Trigger more often when he was in my face with Bolts and that’s something I want to look into. I could’ve done that to catch them both and X-Factored for a Happy Birthday; possibly killed them both meterlessly and Dirt Napped Vergil. I just don’t think about this stuff when I’m actually playing lol.
Ammy actually does do a lot for Strange, the Strange community believes her to be one of, if not the, best assists for him. I’m just really bad at utilizing it right now.
Dude, I play Nova and he’s still one of my worst personal matchups. No worries. He’s just got every tool, he’s straightforward and if a smart player plays him it just feels like he can fish all day. Rule of thumb: that big slide and s.S are a death sentence for Nova, Human Rocket Punch sucks at safety, so does j.S, but people do it anyway for some reason. His safe moves, st.H and cr.H, jabs obviously, his QCF+L, which gets a bit positive if he uses red health. I think that’s it. Oh, and st.M, but no one ever ends a Nova string with st.M
Though Nova/Bolts supposedly works on small characters, because he can set up his instant overhead either way, bolts leaves you pretty free to do whatever you want as a short person, and they have to get distance to call Strange at a safe enough spacing. I’ve never tested, but a lot of anti-airs do surprisingly well against the boxdash even when it’s over you, maybe s.S and CS+L would be useful for swatting him. Can’t test, no ps3 for a week, but if no one gets on that in the next week, I’ll let ya know.
I’m lazy at the Nova matchup, so I haven’t done my homework, its the one time Nemesis gets the advantage of just jumping up and smacking him with a goddamn rocket launcher.
Oh, and my comment about rage trigger was supposed to go here, but I saw it on that thread and was lazy :P.
Also, I’m not sure why the Strange forum likes ColdStar so much, honestly. It’s decent, but I think he’s best with quick projectile stuff, allows advancing-guarded daggers/balls/flames to make a bit safer and less predictable of a mixup scenario. Or maybe Rapid Slash because zoning. Again, not sure why this is in the X-23 threads, but continuity is confusing.
I think one of the reasons Strange/Ammy is so popular is reaction THCs into big big damage. Once again, never experimented. Mostly anchor strange over here.
My few notes.
Good shit: consistent miscreen and corner FoF loops, good xf3 ammy, good XF-less dirt nap kills and X23 was pretty solid (think you should abuse wall jump more, though), good shit blocking in general.
other notes: Call bolts with a dash back wall jump so you’re not leaving him midscreen.
When you’re juggling assist don’t do a TA L to try and catch the other guy, drop down with a dH first, it that hits, you can pick up the assist when it drops onto you, if they don’t take the bait, you’re leaving your full mobility options intact so it’s not a free punish from them. (keep in mind Spencer, Taskys, Spideys vertical options, though.)
I don’t remember the specifics of it since it’s been forever since I labbed the X23/Strange pairing, but for sure if you ever catch a raw WXP you can DHC 7 rings > combo, it’s just timing specific. I think that’s possible at the end of combos, too if hitsun isn’t capped.
Learn the bH illusion frame one counter tech for strange. I don’t think it’s universally useful, but it’s amazing for certain punishes like Helm Breaker or other consistent moves.
Make sure you’re punishing Strange anytime they’re stupid enough to do a jump SoV (also watch for throws, there was a perfect throw attempt against strange in the last match where he jumped and immediately pressed a button.)
With XF3 ammy make sure you’re prioritizing glaive enders. You had enough XF left to launch, switch glaive and and finish in that last match.
Treat Nova’s j.S like any other dive kick and punish the shit out of it on whiff. Also, I would try to not upback so often.
If you get put in the corner, be looking for chances to wall jump and GTFO. Optionally, people expecting the escape, wall jump with an assist and uncross at the last second with either CSxxTA or just TA.
Make sure you’re actually calling CS occasionally. I don’t think you used it once in neutral in any of those matches.
Don’t be afraid to snap at the end of X23 combos, there aren’t a whole lot of characters that can do full damage and still snap a full meter positive. His team didn’t have great 3 way synergy so either snap Vergil or Strange.
I thought you did really well, though. You def. know your team and it’s strong enough to not give up on it yet.
He can get some really nice blockstrings off with Cold Star that lead into a bunch of safe 50/50s that when blocked just lead into more Cold Star. I think Jam Session is ultimately better for that purpose, but yeah Ammy comes with the THC so that probably pushes her ahead a bit.
Yeah I’ve practiced that, I just didn’t have the meter to DHC to Strange when I landed it. Might’ve had a few other chances to go into it though.
I can do the bH illusion tech, it’s just…Scary, lol. I’m only really confident in doing it against certain moves, and I don’t know that I could bust it out mid-tournament just yet. It’s tricky stuff to do on the fly, but I definitely need to work on it. Ammy’s by FAR the character I practice the least and it definitely shows, at the time I didn’t think I had enough X-Factor to end it, but looking back I could’ve gone into a simple thunder edge loop to build the meter for a level 3 and won off of that. You’re also right about me never using Cold Star, I’m always so focused on getting Bolts out that I forget CS is better in some situations. In regards to snapbacks, I really just wanted Nova dead as soon as I touched him and (Ironically since it killed me) wasn’t too worried about anchor Strange, so I just decided to kill Nova and fight Vergil on incoming. Probably should’ve snapped him in in the first game though. Thanks for all the feedback, I’m keeping everything posted so far in my notes for next time. I don’t think I’ll get to go to another tournament before Final Round, but I’ve some casuals coming up and I’ll try to fix some of my bad habits there.
Now here’s the match that made me consider dropping Strange for a few days
My opponent was a really strong X-23 player and he just got the best of me that night. I realize now that I made a ton of mistakes in that matchup and it wasn’t remotely Strange’s fault though. I kept trying to challenge him up close and getting blown up for it. It kind of mindfucked me a bit since that’s the first time anyone’s ever shut my team down that easily, thus the change to Storm (Who I haven’t even played in months) in game 3. Next time I’ll definitely stick it out with Strange, but I’ll play it a bit more carefully so I don’t get my assists nailed so much, and it’s another match where I probably would’ve benefited with more Cold Star. Also kind of embarrassed that I got hit by X-23 mixups that I myself use, but damn is Laura hard to block sometimes.
I think you were mind fucked more than anything. Once you lost the momentum you lost the match. I would have XF cancelled on his X23 early on just to get the momentum in your favor, or watch for a vergil call and go for an SOV HBD or just pushblock and look to kill X23 with an SoV XF combo.
That’s pretty much how Wandles’ and my matches go. X23 mirrors are crazy fucking things and a lot of times the matches seem to be based around who’s X23 died first. He def. has a really good shell, but I feel pretty confident that you would have been able to get a hit with X23 + bolts on dorm and be able to dirt nap Vergil on inc.
That kind of nonsense IS why I dropped Strange though. As soon as someone gets on him it’s too fucking hard to create space. Don’t forget to abuse your THCs more since it gives you a great change to either derp out a mixup or set up some graces/EoAs to get momentum back on your side.
I think x-factoring to kill his X-23 would’ve been a smart move, I agree. I could’ve had corner pressure on Vergil and, assuming I kill him, I’d be looking at a very good matchup in Strange vs. Dormammu. I might’ve even been able to build enough meter on X-23 to just Dirt Nap Vergil. The Strange forums also suggest I be more willing to do a random Vishanti when I’m under pressure, if for no other reason than to X-Factor and teleport out to start Strange’s gameplan. I was looking for an opportunity to pull off the Strange/Ammy THC, but I felt like I was always either under pressure or he was in position to WXP through it. Same reason I was afraid to use Seven Rings to go through the Dark Hole/Rapid Slash pressure.
I think you just had a rough day in neutral. A lot of your blowups came from either being too passive or too aggressive towards the other players playing style. He def knew X23’s tools, and we all want to show out vs. other X23s because we want to be the best hahaha.
The problem with Strange is that he just doesn’t have the normals to compete in a game like Marvel. Palm loops build impressive meter but if you are fishing for hits against heavy rushdown then there’s a good chance you are going to be looking on the outside in. Dorm has this same problem, but it’s nowhere near as bad as Strange. Bolts is a far better assist for Laura than Dark Hole, but as I mentioned X23 has the tools to get around Bolts and this player was def looking for Strange calls.
X23 mirrors are funny like that because it’s from there where we truly KNOW just how difficult it is to block an X23 that knows what he’s doing. Once this X23 player showed you out mindfuck kicked in, and it successfully caused you to abandon your game. Once an X23 corners you down, it’s like hell getting out hahaha. I wouldn’t worry about it though, and don’t abandon your team–it’s good once things get rolling.
I’ve never fought an X-23 mirror in Ultimate, but I can imagine it being highly annoying lol.
I can’t speak on the rest of your characters, but I’d say the key thing is, the X-23 player was using his assists in his offence (though he mostly only ever used them post-knockdown after a hit) than you were using yours, so he was able to pin you down and put you into more bad situations. This X-23 player usually starts his offence by dashing cr.M to get a hit. You can use low-to-the-ground D+H and maybe low Talon Attack Ls to crush his lows and get him/her to do something else. Notice how he rarely used his assists to get in much, mostly after he got a hit. X-23’s not as good without assists for her approach, so I think that’s something to take advantage of.
However, it’s possible his mix-ups weren’t always completely tight and in fact, could have lead to his X-23’s death. At 0:44, I don’t think that cross up was completely tight, there was a sizable gap that you might’ve been able to punish but I have to test. 1:33 was definitely not safe, but unfortunately, you missed the punish. And 1:43 was definitely unsafe. He generally goes for a lot of Mirage Feint Cross-ups, though at the time, you probably thought he’d mix up his options a bit.
He doesn’t cancel his unassisted blockstrings properly, all of his unassisted blockstrings don’t leave him at an advantage and it’s a habit X-23 players will eventually have to curb, because at best, it doesn’t leave them at an advantage and at worst, it leaves them open. He’s liberal with uncharged Neck Slicer at times, you might have been able to counter with an aerial attack, or aerial SoV with Strange and X-F for death. He goes for risky mix-ups like double Mirage Feint M>Talon L cross-ups unassisted, like at 1:41-1:43. This X-23 player isn’t staggering his strings much, nor is he using D+H or MFCs/Mirage Feint Ls which would leave him safe and at an advantage. This potentially leaves him open to mashing. I’ve no idea what normal Strange did when he hit you with the 2nd cross-up at the 1:41-1:43 mark (I’m guessing that was a cr.H from a failed advancing guard), but if that was most other characters, that probably would have hit X-23, so yeah, that was messed up lol.
I think in general, in an X-23 mirror, you shouldn’t stay on the ground. Take to the air. Call assists whilst jumping, so even if your assist call gets hit, X-23 won’t hit two characters. Wall-jump. Master fluid movement, like wavedashing backwards and forwards so you can not only evade them and make it more difficult to hit you, but also intimidate them with your movement and choose to quickly rush in on them when you get the opportunity (especially versus non-assisted chars like X-23.) Mixing in assist calls with this can be effective.
Difficult to do in the heat of tournaments fights though haha. A lot of theory, but I think the best thing I said was just to keep up the movement and stick to the air to avoid bad situations, then initiate the offensive through the air. I agree with what Eren said as well in terms of passive and aggressiveness. Copy his mix-ups and see how tight they are. Experiment with regular-blocking and advancing guarding them. Especially experiment against st.L+Mirage Feint M+Dark Hole cross-ups and see if you can mash out of it.
Lastly, I personally wouldn’t use Strange, but for different reasons. His Bolts are just too slow IMO. You need something fast. It’s okay if you have another good quick projectile/similar-style assist in your team, but if it’s your only assist in terms of approach, you either need to keep up the movement and/or get in there quick and make sure your opponent gets mixed up properly.
I don’t think bolts are any slower than Log and I can’t imagine playing X23 without it now. Bolts are fine, IMO (aside from being attached to strange) the issue is with how easy it is to punish him if you don’t call him off the screen. Bolts + wall jump into TA L/M/H, land > MF, land Dec.Slice, land > dash over dH all work. At point, I’m pretty sure normal blockstring with bolts buffered xx uncharged NS gives you time to go ham, too as well as jump back Bolts + TA L. As long as you get him on the screen he’s there for so long that the startup doesn’t matter.
I actually disagree on the ‘take to the air’ comment. Being in the rare situation that I get a TON of X23 mirror match practice between me and Wandles, I’m pretty sure most of the game boils down to harcore spacing and dash>c.M, lol. You can get in and pressure for a little bit, but you have to jump back and get back to spacing after a bit since XF cancels are always a solid option in that match. We both abuse her wall jump pretty heavily (I don’t think anyone abuses it as much as I do, though.) It’s great for giving you lots of solid pressure/mixup options when paired with an assist.
You all should learn how to Mirage Feint Cancel with X-23, Set-up Fuzzy’s with her for 50-50’s, and Berserker Slash. Crouch L, Jump Down+H is the best frame trap in the game:
All the tools you’ll need. My team is highly reset heavy. I care little for combos, little for assist extenders, and little for guaranteed dirt naps (Although it is a plus). X-23 is about getting in and staying in.
Nice vid real,
I’m stealing some tech from that vid for my x23 ammy vergil team.
once you get the tac stuff down you don’t need to be resetting anything.
characters like taskmaster need to die the moment you touch him.
I still don’t think Taskmaster is cheap enough to be in the must die club. Him sitting on meter after dropping a combo doesn’t become a near unstoppable force like Zero or Vergil and he can’t really runaway from you as well as Magneto.
Its pretty much all of the low health cheesy ass tops that ned to die in one hit IMO. Id much rather leave Task alive than Magneto or Morrigan.