Lets End This! the MvC3 X-23 Combo/Strategy Thread

HeroicTactian · February 8, 2012, 5:02pm

I’ve noticed all that to, and I’m like wtfff O.o lol.
But yeah, I noticed yesterday you gotta’ wait until you’re in line with them if you’re gonna’ cancel early or if you’re doin’ the complete Crescent H wait until they’re falling to land the Talon.L

Btw! can someone give me a feint combo please? L + M + H xx Feint.H + j.M + j.M then i’d just do random things to see if they hit lol.

Ryuga · February 14, 2012, 6:26am

Two combos from me today. Sorry for the terrible quality lol.

[media=youtube]H7zDLp-IMFs[/media]
[media=youtube]IIlFs2gPEts[/media]

First combo’s just to show off that it’s possible. Does 1.1+mil.

Second combo’s to show off Amaterasu’s Cold Star extending purposes. Does 1.02+mil

jaytoo · February 14, 2012, 11:27am

A few things I’ve observed about air combos and getting the followup:

In general, it’s easier to combo an L-talon after the H-scythe if X-23 is “in front” of the opponent, as opposed to “under” them. Which means the consistency of the air combo you do is more related to the** height you did your launcher** at than anything else.

Example: set the dummy to stand and just do Launch, H xx H-scythe, L-talon. It’ll combo, no problem, every time, every character. Now set the dummy to jump, and do the same thing. See how the air combo can be dramatically changed as a result of when you hit S? Sometimes you even cross them up midair! (For this reason, it’s sometimes better to do a neutral superjump for the air combo.)

For consistency: try to hit S to launch with as low a juggle as possible. This requires some matchup knowledge, as different characters will flot differently, especially during feint combos. If you’ve noticed that you’ve launched them a little too high, you might want to omit Crescent Scythe in your air combo unless you’re in the corner. Of course, if you absolutely need the damage, and you’re midscreen, practice delaying the L-talon after the Scythe. Be aware of what side you’ve ended up on as well - j.H will hit behind you, but you might need to input scythe and talon the other direction.

For the OTG: the leniency of getting a fully charged ankle slice is also related to how the air combo connected (and by extension, how your launcher connected.) The hitbox on L-talon is pretty wide - depending on what part of the hitbox spikes the opponent down, you might get considerably different spacing and “frame advantage” when you both land midscreen. Worst of all, this will be different for different sized characters (Tron, MODOK, V.Joe, and Ammy being the most notable examples in my experience).

(The most frustrating thing: hit your air combo, OTG ankle slice xx rage trigger - the ankle slice connects, but you’re too far away, and Rage Trigger whiffs. X-23 then gets punished and killed.)

A workaround: from what I’ve observed, there are actually two (or more?) types of “flying screen”, which changes depending on how high up you are on the screen. The “higher level” flying screens will actually cause the opponent to fall slower and/or stay grounded longer after an air combo ender (most easily observable situation: after an up TAC). You can take advantage of this by getting to “second level” flying screen by doing H-scythe at the apex of your superjump air combo. If you’ve gotten this higher flying screen (the camera will behave bit different), you’ll usually have enough time to add dash into ankle slice for a consistently spaced OTG (also more consistent assisted relaunches).

Takes practice, but IMO, it’s more important to take the random out of some combos. You never know when you’re going to run into an amazing MODOK player, and you’ll wonder why you can’t ever OTG ankle slice on him.

Merkyl999x · February 16, 2012, 3:27pm

So question to the group. What’s the best meter-building combo for X-23 atm? Her jump loop combo with an OTG relaunch builds something like 1.8 meters and does ~550k without the hyper. Does anyone know of any other practical option or ways to expand on it? In this situation the Ls actually add some damage and meter since you’re not finishing with a rage trigger. With the Rage Trigger I think it hits ~700k which means this combo 2 times should kill most characters and leave you with 3 meters for the dirtnap on incoming.

(I normally start it with a Shopping Cart+MF M into) s.LL c.L M c.M HxxMF H j.MMH land j.MMHSxxTA L MHS sj. MMH:d:HxxCS HxxTA L land A1+charged NS,S sj.HxxCS HxxTA L land charge AS

TMNTemps · February 16, 2012, 9:28pm

X-23’s meter build for any given combo seems to top out at about 1.75 ish bars max in my experience, in an assisted combo with one relaunch. its better to not bother with super enders at all imo… just a normal no meter combo twice is enough to kill pretty much everybody. I think the most meter I’ve built in one combo is doing dp+L xx qcf+L, dp+L xx qcf+L, dp+L xx qcf+L s.M s.H s.S sj.M sj.M sj.H sj.d+H xx dp+H xx qcf+L, relaunch into dp+H xx qcf+L… but that is corner only and not the most practical combo in the world.

with Magneto Hyper Grav assist you can squeeze in one extra H before your relaunch, even very late in the combo, because the grav capture effect doesn’t go away right away. so that’s good for an extra 5% of bar haha

InstantSilence · February 19, 2012, 2:48pm

I guess this isn’t really a question specific to X-23, but what’s everyone’s general thought on TAC combos? I can easily get around 100-150k more damage from a single exchange combo. I know there’s the risk of it being countered, but a lot of the time, people aren’t looking for it, and throwing it out only a couple times every now and then is fairly safe.

TrulyAmiracle · February 19, 2012, 3:03pm

TACs are gay as shit IMO, fuckin hate that nonsense so much. Thats just me though <.<

jaytoo · February 20, 2012, 9:02am

TACs are not useless, it’s just that in most situations, the risk/reward is not worth it. It’s more useful for some teams and not others.

Here’s my conditions for going for a TAC or not:

I don’t have enough meter for the kill, and I know I’m not going to build enough in this combo.
I know I’m not going to do significant damage in this combo.
The character I’d be TAC-ing into has a strong combo I can use after the TAC.
I haven’t done a TAC in the match yet.

Real world example:

I’ve gotten a hit in with my point character, and immediately went for a kill using all of my meter (ps. this is always worth it).
You have no meter left, but the next character coming in is Hulk, who has 1.2million health.
My incoming mixup is successful - I land an airthrow! (or: a hit with a heavily scaling assist like Frank West.)
I’ve done my optimal damage throw combo - I now have one meter, and Hulk has 700k health left.

My options are now:

End the combo and start another mixup.
Go for a TAC into a character with a strong combo post-TAC (Doom, Magneto, Sentinel, Dorm, Nova, Iron Man, Dante).
Use the meter without getting the kill. (This is the wrong answer).

Results:
1a: The next mixup is successful. The Hulk dies, you’re up against their anchor incoming next with 1 meter stocked.
1b: The next mixup is unsuccessful. The Hulk lives, and you’re back in a neutral game with 1 meter.
1fail.: The mixups was read, and you got hit. Your character dies because you gave the opponent two meters in the process of killing their previous character.

2a: The TAC is successful. The Hulk dies, you’re up against their anchor incoming next with either: no meter left(up or side TAC), 1 meter stocked(down TAC).
2b: The TAC is broken. The Hulk lives, and you’re back in a neutral game with 1 meter.
2we’re in there: The opponent will now be trying to break the TAC (or has already been trying to). Next time you get them in a combo, put them in the same situation, but use a reset to catch them mashing S.

3a: The Hulk lives, and you’re left at neutral with no meter (whyyy would you do this).
3b: The Hulk lives, and you’ve got a decent mixup situation, but no meter stocked (you might as well have gone for a stronger mixup with option 2).

As you can see, in this situation, going for the TAC is actually the** safer choice**, with the same benefit if successful. People can get a read on your mixups and shut them down if they respond properly. You only get a 1 in 3 chance to break a TAC, and it’s an educated guess at best.

Other thoughts: stealing meter from any team is always a very good move, especially Phoenixes. Flight combos can also build a crapton of meter.

Keeping it relevant: The only time I’ll TAC into X-23 is if I’m against their last character and I want the XF2 infinite.

TrulyAmiracle · February 20, 2012, 10:22am

…yeah TACs are still gay.

Merkyl999x · February 20, 2012, 10:49am

Having a TAC broken against characters with a strong neutral game or strong zoning is terrible. 33% of the time you’re putting yourself into an oki mixup since you’re forced into a tech roll after the break (I love this fact when I’m the one breaking, though.) X-23’s oki resets are so strong that I really can’t see any reason why you would want to risk a TAC break with her and put yourself in a coin toss mixup situation against smart opponents. Look at Noel Browns wolvie/frank team he’s been playing lately to see how much it can blow up in your face.

Now with characters that have no oki game, I can MAYBE understand going for a TAC sometimes. X-23’s oki game is amazing, though, and there’s no reason you should be rolling a dice rather than using your intuition/knowledge/setups to land the hit.

jaytoo · February 20, 2012, 11:29am

I’ll agree that X-23 doesn’t benefit much from using TACs, but it’s not simply a matter of wether or not you have a strong oki. Since this game gives you 3 options for teching, one of which changes wakeup timing, offensive pressure is not guaranteed on wakeup. Even the trickiest mixup can occasionally get wakeup-bionic armed.

Personally, the most important reason I use TACs occasionally is to make my opponent think I will. People will be ready to react to mixup after a knockdown, or a single air jab, etc., but far fewer will be ready for a counter to their attempted TAC break. Going for a fake TAC reset after a launcher is an extremely powerful tool if you’ve got a character that can get a combo from superjump height.

…which, in Ultimate, X-23 does not have. But if you happen to run anyone else that scores hard knockdowns or groundbounces at superjump height, it’s not a bad idea to just use one TAC, and then punish the ensuing mashed TAC breaks.

Japots · February 20, 2012, 11:56pm

I use TAC all the time to switch Firebrand over to X23 for a reset setup.

Against top-level tournament play, it’s not something I can use reliably, so it’s not something I usually do in a serious match, but it keeps the opponent guessing. I usually listen to the buttons they’re pushing (or not pushing) when they’re being beaten around during a combo.

If I “hear” them trying to mash the TAC counter, I whiff the last hit with Firebrand to get a free mixup to another BnB.

I think people are just ticked when they get hit with BBC, TAC, BBC, TAC, BBCS and still not tech out despite having 2 chances to break free, and either they lost meter or the opponent gained meter for free. Stay salty

drean · February 22, 2012, 2:59am

mind telling me more about her oki game?

Moonless · February 22, 2012, 6:30am

In a nutshell, she can use her Mirage Feints for free mixups in the corner (M MF for left/right mixups, H MF for easy high/low or unblockables). Outside of it, she can simply chase the opponent’s tech roll with a few button dashes, crossing up or not depending on timing. Add assists to into the mix and things get even easier, either covering both sides of a tech roll at the same time or giving you extra time for mixups.

Merkyl999x · February 22, 2012, 10:33am

Yup, the only thing I would add past that is fuzzy guard with lockdown assists in the corner.

If you’re not going to be able to kill your opponent with Rage Trigger, leave off the hyper entirely and end the combo with a charged ankle slice. This will force an immediate ground tech so you should always have consistent timing for your oki setups. (WXP also forces a ground tech if you don’t DHC but it’s generally better for X-23 if you save her meter for kills or Silent Kill setups). In general, it’s better to go for ground techs since her left/right game is one of the fastest in the game but she’s able to convert hits into combos at normal jump height so don’t feel like it’s the only way to go. There’s really no reason why you should be letting your opponents stand up without having to block a 50/50 of some kind tho.

TrulyAmiracle · February 22, 2012, 10:48am

Honestly I think a video demonstration of that would be very useful and will probably spark some ideas around.

hmmm starts working on it

drean · February 22, 2012, 11:18am

This.
A video showing some of her Oki game would be Godlike.

Merkyl999x · February 22, 2012, 11:21am

In the past few weeks there’s been that autocorrect oki vid, Tatsu’s OS oki vid, the 50/50 dash-through vid, and I did my cart left/right oki vid. That viper BK hi-lo OS vid that was on main page maybe 3 or 4 weeks back applies to X-23 also. Most of that is on the last page of the X-23 video thread. Def. worth a watch for anyone that hasn’t yet. I’m working on finding a strong counter against people that chicken block or jump>down H on wake up since some of my mixups aren’t meaty enough.

dc_guru · February 23, 2012, 3:09am

Just messing around the other day in the lab and figured out a sick new instant overhead combo … too bad it only works on sent! Uses 1 assist (OTG), 1 level, no XF and does 830k.

j

http://shoryuken.com/forum/styles/default/xenforo/smilies/moves/s.png

, j

http://shoryuken.com/forum/styles/default/xenforo/smilies/moves/down.png

http://shoryuken.com/forum/styles/default/xenforo/smilies/moves/h.png

xx

http://shoryuken.com/forum/styles/default/xenforo/smilies/moves/qcf.png

http://shoryuken.com/forum/styles/default/xenforo/smilies/moves/l.png

/ s

http://shoryuken.com/forum/styles/default/xenforo/smilies/moves/m.png

, s

http://shoryuken.com/forum/styles/default/xenforo/smilies/moves/h.png

xx

http://shoryuken.com/forum/styles/default/xenforo/smilies/moves/qcb.png

http://shoryuken.com/forum/styles/default/xenforo/smilies/moves/h.png

/\ j

http://shoryuken.com/forum/styles/default/xenforo/smilies/moves/m.png

, j

http://shoryuken.com/forum/styles/default/xenforo/smilies/moves/h.png

xx

http://shoryuken.com/forum/styles/default/xenforo/smilies/moves/dp.png

http://shoryuken.com/forum/styles/default/xenforo/smilies/moves/l.png

,

http://shoryuken.com/forum/styles/default/xenforo/smilies/moves/qcf.png

http://shoryuken.com/forum/styles/default/xenforo/smilies/moves/l.png

/ s

http://shoryuken.com/forum/styles/default/xenforo/smilies/moves/m.png

, s

http://shoryuken.com/forum/styles/default/xenforo/smilies/moves/h.png

, s

http://shoryuken.com/forum/styles/default/xenforo/smilies/moves/s.png

/\ sj

http://shoryuken.com/forum/styles/default/xenforo/smilies/moves/m.png

, sj

http://shoryuken.com/forum/styles/default/xenforo/smilies/moves/m.png

, sj

http://shoryuken.com/forum/styles/default/xenforo/smilies/moves/h.png

, sj

http://shoryuken.com/forum/styles/default/xenforo/smilies/moves/down.png

http://shoryuken.com/forum/styles/default/xenforo/smilies/moves/h.png

xx

http://shoryuken.com/forum/styles/default/xenforo/smilies/moves/dp.png

http://shoryuken.com/forum/styles/default/xenforo/smilies/moves/h.png

,

http://shoryuken.com/forum/styles/default/xenforo/smilies/moves/qcf.png

http://shoryuken.com/forum/styles/default/xenforo/smilies/moves/l.png

/

http://shoryuken.com/forum/styles/default/xenforo/smilies/moves/a2.png

(Wesker OTG),

http://shoryuken.com/forum/styles/default/xenforo/smilies/moves/qcf.png

http://shoryuken.com/forum/styles/default/xenforo/smilies/moves/l.png

(fully charged), s

http://shoryuken.com/forum/styles/default/xenforo/smilies/moves/h.png

, s

http://shoryuken.com/forum/styles/default/xenforo/smilies/moves/s.png

/\ sj

http://shoryuken.com/forum/styles/default/xenforo/smilies/moves/h.png

, sj

http://shoryuken.com/forum/styles/default/xenforo/smilies/moves/down.png

http://shoryuken.com/forum/styles/default/xenforo/smilies/moves/h.png

xx

http://shoryuken.com/forum/styles/default/xenforo/smilies/moves/dp.png

http://shoryuken.com/forum/styles/default/xenforo/smilies/moves/h.png

,

http://shoryuken.com/forum/styles/default/xenforo/smilies/moves/qcf.png

http://shoryuken.com/forum/styles/default/xenforo/smilies/moves/l.png

/

http://shoryuken.com/forum/styles/default/xenforo/smilies/moves/qcf.png

http://shoryuken.com/forum/styles/default/xenforo/smilies/moves/m.png

(fully charged) xx

http://shoryuken.com/forum/styles/default/xenforo/smilies/moves/qcf.png

http://shoryuken.com/forum/styles/default/xenforo/smilies/moves/atk.png

= 830,300 DMG

PS - I tried it on other big characters but none seemed to work … if you find that it works on someone else let me know as this combo is too sick!

Moonless · February 23, 2012, 4:58am

Do j.M instead of j.S for instant overheads. Works on Hulk, Nemesis and Tron too (although with fairly tight timing). This used to be pretty common knowledge in the early Vanilla days, so it barely gets mentioned and got kinda lost.