Yeah, I think this was discussed a bit in the SFxT General Discussion thread. A stealth nerf; the juggle potential on Bryan’s Fisherman’s Slam went down.
Quite annoying.
Wow, that’s a terrible nerf. Welp, that’s what I missed not playing for 3 weeks? :lame:
On the other hand, I am excited to see what we have in store for 2013.
Well I may as well wait for the 2013 changes. I’m still going to play Bryan and King, but I don’t wanna practice until after I know the changes.
I hear what your saying. I still want to play Bryan because his the one character who actually mega sense to and isn’t ryu or ken. But I feel I’m forced to play him in a way that isn’t very effective against most characters. Like I can’t punish raw tags and not safe on block moves as much
What? Bryan is amazing at punishing raw tags, if he tags while your full screen, dash as hes doing it, and then hittem with a double back elbow into h.recca or h.snakepit switch cancel for super good damage, also bryan can punish a ton of stuff that most characters can’t with his f.mk string, like m.bison’s mk.hk boost combo, ryu’s sweep, and a ton of boost combo stuff like poison’s cr.mk, st.hp etc, but it seems like almost every character boost combo’s on block are getting reduced nock-back, so bryan might not have that advantage anymore of punishing alot of things most characters can’t. If bryan is indeed nerfed in 2013, I feel like I almost have to go back to maining bob/julia because when I was using bob/julia I felt almost unstoppable, and bryan was actually getting somewhere good, but I still saw bryan as my teams liability, and obviously weaker than my bob. Aswell, bryan had some weak points, most of which involved the amount of work you had to put in, I know alot of people like the idea of characters that need more work put in to be as successfull against top tier characters, but honestly bryan’s bnb’s involve a crapload of tough links and juggles, and they all feel atleast 1-3 frames, if not 1-2 frames, getting these combo’s down 100% of the time is really tough, and I find myself only hitting his combo’s about 70-80% of the time, its a lot of work and I really noticed the amount of effort I had to put in just to get as far as I used to using bob/julia. My fingers are crossed he gets buffed, while I think bryan is mid to upper-mid tier, atleast give him so decent lows, or more frame advantage on some of his farther reaching strings, or at the VERY least make his strings uninterruptable, like his one two body blow or his double back elbow need to be a tight block string so bad.
Been doing a lot of messing around with Bryan. I’m not sure what to make of him, but he definitely has some very powerful strengths. I’ve looked more into his defensive options and his meter management options. Here’s what I’ve found. I’ve separated it into specific situations you could be in and the best answers I’ve found for those situations.
Situation 1: You’re in trouble and you want to get Bryan out and your other character in safely. You don’t care if you opponent blocks, you just want to switch.
Answer)
Snake pit switch cancel (cost 1 meter)
Your character coming in is completely safe to enemy 3f reversals in between the hits of snakepit, but Bryan can still can hit by the reversal. Nonetheless, the point is you got Bryan out and your other character safely in.
Situation 2: Your other character has connected a boost combo into launcher (or maybe you just connected raw launcher). Now Bryan is coming in on low health and you want to do some dmg and get him out. Only problem is you have no meter! What can you do?
Answers)
-
St. lp then link into launcher.
This is the simplest way to get him out. Don’t cancel the launcher from the lp. Hit them with the lp while they’re floating. They’ll float high enough for you to now connect with the launcher. Many characters can do this and Bryan is one of them. -
Cl st. mp then link into launcher.
Much tighter for very little extra dmg, but if you’re confident in your abilities then by all means go ahead. -
Cl st. mp, link to cl st. hp, cancel to mach breaker. Then raw tag Bryan out immediately (only safe if you don’t knock opponent into corner)
This takes some explaining, but you’ll appreciate it. First, the dmg payoff is way better then the prior two answers. But how exactly is this safe? Normally if you tried to raw tag out Bryan after mach breaker, your opponent can wake-up roll forward and be able to punish your character coming in. However since your opponent is floating in this situation, mach breaker knocks them back even farther, provided you don’t knock them into a corner. Even if they roll forward, they will be out of range for pretty much the entire cast to do anything to punish your other character coming in. Be careful, you have to do the hp after the mp; you can’t do hp by itself into mach breaker. The screen wont have enough time to center itself and the opponent won’t get knocked back far enough. Another viable but less damaging option is Bryan’s one two body blow xx mach breaker.
Situation 3: You’re under heavy pressure and you want to use a reversal to stop the pressure and turn the tide, but you still want to try and be somewhat safe about it as well as score more dmg then just a plain old reversal.
Answers)
-
light fisherman’s hook switch cancel.
This is the generic dp style switch cancel. In 2013 most characters dp block stuns are getting nerfed to the point where this is completely unsafe, but I did not see this nerf to Bryan’s light fisherman’s hook in his changelog. As of right now, this move is still relatively unsafe if blocked, but only if your opponent reacts quick enough. Much of the time your opponent doesn’t react quick enough and you can safely block the opponents attack with your other character upon coming in, or you can even try a quick attack of your own if you feel daring enough. Mashing a dp and then switch canceling is a kinda scrubby tactic, but sometimes when you’re in trouble you just gotta go for it. The payoff is very nice on hit as well. We’ll see in patch 2013 if Bryan’s blockstun has been nerfed or not for his light fisherman’s hook. -
Ex right left to spin kick (his ex rekka)
This appears to be an absolutely awesome reversal. It has one point of armor and is completely safe on block. On hit it gives enough frame advantage for you to link into his st. lp. It’s a relatively easy link and you can boost combo from their or do whatever you like. Or… you can continue his rekka, but only if you have the advanced reactions to know whether or not his first rekka was blocked (his second and third rekkas are very unsafe). His final hit wall bounces on ex rekka. If you still want to switch Bryan out at that point you can do st. lp after the wall bounce to float your enemy and then you can connect your launcher.
Situation 4: Your opponent is scared of your overhead and is now blocking high. You feel like flying knee is too much of a gamble for too little payoff at this point. Do you have any options for safely confirming a low attack from Bryan into a combo???
Answers)
-
cr. lk or cr. mk or st. lk (that’s right st. lk hits low!) boosted to cl mp.
As of now, cl mp gives so much frame advantage on block that its completely safe even if you boost into it (it’s safe from 3f reversal dp’s). This means you can cancel a low attack into it and be safe whether it was blocked or not. The problem is you have to be very close to your opponent to do this. I did not see any nerfs to Bryan’s boost combos in his patch 2013 changelog so perhaps this will stay just as safe. -
low attack cancelled into rekka.
Bryan’s first rekka appears to be -7 on block. So this is still pretty unsafe, but if you throw it out every once in a while your opponent probably wont react quick enough to punish (don’t quote me on that). On hit you can continue his rekka into whatever.
Situation 5: Ryu is getting me with his stupid cr. mk! Julia is getting me with her stupid cr. mk! What the heck can I do to counterpoke these far reaching low attacks?
Answer)
- st. lk buffered to st. hp
This is by far Bryan’s best answer to low pokes (granted he has other nice pokes that also work but seem to trade or lose more often). His st. lk has super awesome priority vs low attacks. If you buffer hp, his long reaching far hp will also connect after the counterpoke st lk and you can finish into launcher if you like. His st. lk really is that good! Go test it out for yourself and record Ryu’s cr. mk or Julia’s cr. mk. You’ll be surprised how well you can counterpoke these from the proper distance (typically at their max range or just outside of it).
Final interesting note
Bryan’s final sweep attack from his gattling combination is actually comboable afterwards!!!
Maybe you knew this already or maybe not. If you switch cancel after the sweep, your opponent will still be in a sort of ground bounce state. This is just enough time for your other character coming in to connect a dp. Ex) Ken can connect his fierce dp after this. Or if you don’t have a dp, your other character can still connect a quick crouching attack (cr. lp, cr. lk, etc). This will actually cause the opponent to recover in the air and land in a standing position (aka you’ll reset them). If you just want to knock them down though you can simply connect your other character’s sweep if its quick enough. Certain characters like Ryu can even connect their super upon coming in! (With Ryu’s fireball super your total dmg will be 445 for 3 bars of meter. Not very good, but if it will finish the match go for it!)
I Didn’t know this, but its interesting. I think the main problem is landing the low in that string is next to impossible against good players. My experience playing against players such as paranoia hades, viscant, ryan hunter, jibbo, etc is that bryan is extremely difficult at a high level, and while I got really good at making sure they had as few chances to hit me inbetween strings, and be as solid as possible, its rough. I think his AA game in 2013 is going to be the best in the game if not top 3, but thats not the problem, his AA game is already really strong.
Awesome info learis, especially about st.lk xx s.hp chain to catch low pokes. I’ve started to use Brian on point with my bob, but I’m not entirely convinced he’s a solid character. Pretty much all of his chains have gaps where it counts (ie st.lp, mp, gap ender) not to mention a lot of his confirms being around -5. Plus now his overhead will be -5 on block and Mach breaker is most likely going to be very unsafe.
I’m mostly trying to center my Brian around zoning and being patient for now, with a lot of emphasis on his oki and post sweep options. I’m hoping sweep will be really good in 2013, because he needs a legit low option. Maybe there’s just some sort of crazy set ups with knees that no one is seeing :/.
Anyways, most of his good stuff seems oki based, and a lot of that is after sweep. I’ve been using a couple set ups.
#1: sweep, twitch (by this I mean walk back the absolute shortest amount you can, you barely want to move) and then jump in HP. At best I’ve been able to get a 4 frame safe jump. More reliably you should be getting a 5-7 frame safe jump. In 2013 they should stay in place for this a lot more because of…
#2: sweep, hold walk forward, and then on their wake up do a meaty b+MP. On the opponents roll, the hold forward will register as a forward for the opposite direction. If they don’t roll, a normal meaty cl.MP will come out. However if they roll behind you a Mach breaker will come out. You can also slow the command down a bit to just get a overhead on the roll. Should be useful in 2013 when rolls are punishable.
Thanks. All that stuff is just things I found while in the training room with him. I actually never played with him before until today (I got bodied for the most part). I can better see what his weaknesses are now. It really is a shame that they’re making his overhead minus on block come the patch. That was his only + frame attack on block to get in on someone from a distance. While he has long reaching attacks and strings, they’re either slow, minus on block, or have gaps in between them. I wish they made his rekka move more similar to how fei long’s is. Right now it’s like if Fei Long was doing his rekkas under water.
I think what really killed him was the M/H fishermans no longer hitting airborne opponents. I could take the elbow nerf, and even the trip and stuff, but seriously? Bryan isn’t good enough to justify his extremely harsh nerfs, I played him against high level players, and the difficulty of his combo’s is really noticable in a high level match when I drop 1-2 combo’s per match, and that makes the difference in this game when combo’s mean positioning, character order, and of course damage. Now hes just low tier in my eyes, like bottom 3 for sure.
I was watching Kazunoko use Bryan, and he uses a cr. kick into some punch chain afterwards, but I’m not sure what it is. Anyone know? Doesn’t look like any of the tekken chains on Bryan’s command list. Is it just a boost chain?<br>
<blockquote class=“Quote”>
<div class=“QuoteAuthor”><a href="/profile/21236/delusional11">delusional11</a> said:</div>
<div class=“QuoteText”>I was watching Kazunoko use Bryan, and he uses a cr. kick into some punch chain afterwards, but I’m not sure what it is. Anyone know? Doesn’t look like any of the tekken chains on Bryan’s command list. Is it just a boost chain?<br></div>
</blockquote>
It’s difficult to say without a better description or a video, but it’s probably his st. LP, st. MP, st. LP chain, his main confirming string. Otherwise, it could be his completely safe cross rush chain of cl. LP > cl. MP <br>
Does anyone know if Bryan has any decent anti-pressure tools and/or anti-air? I’ve STILL been getting stuffed out of his cr.HP all day.
LP fisherman slam is his go to anti air but you got to make sure not to do it too early or it might whiff. And for anti pressure, ex fisherman slam has invincibility but is not safe and ex rekka, the first hit is safe and has 1 hit of armor. both can be grabbed though.<br><br>He has others but I like sticking to those two although ex mach breaker has armor as well so that one good too and its fast, it unsafe as well though.<br>
<p class=“MsoNoSpacing”><span lang=“EN-US”>Just picked up SFXT few days ago with Bryan/Paul.</span><span lang=“EN-US”><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=“MsoNoSpacing”><span lang=“EN-US”>These are some things I have picked up with him while
playing ranked:<br>
<br>
As for <b><u>combo’s</u></b>, I’ll list
them without naming the strings, I’ll just put them with ( ) as strings.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=“MsoNoSpacing”><span lang=“EN-US”>His damage is only good when u use EX.<br>
<br>
<b><u>Combo’s on point blank:<o:p></o:p></u></b></span></p>
<p class=“MsoNoSpacing”><span lang=“EN-US”>(St.lp – St.mp – St.lp) xx srk.HP + PP, sweep<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=“MsoNoSpacing”><span lang=“EN-US”>(St.lp – St.mp – St.lp) xx qcb LP x3 <= Most usefull
imho, qcb+LP is hard to punish.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=“MsoNoSpacing”><span lang=“EN-US”>(F.mk – St.mp – St.lp – St.mk)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=“MsoNoSpacing”><span lang=“EN-US”>(F.mk – St.mp – St.lp) xx FF+mp<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=“MsoNoSpacing”><span lang=“EN-US”>(St.HP-St.lp) xx srk.H + PP, sweep<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=“MsoNoSpacing”><span lang=“EN-US”>(St.HP-St.lp) xx qcb L x3 <= Most usefull
imho, qcb+LP is hard to punish.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=“MsoNoSpacing”><span lang=“EN-US”> </span></p>
<p class=“MsoNoSpacing”><b><u><span lang=“EN-US”>Combo’s with
EX (Mid screen, fullscreen only)<o:p></o:p></span></u></b></p>
<p class=“MsoNoSpacing”><span lang=“EN-US”>Due to the wall bounces, these combo’s cannot be
performed in the corner.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=“MsoNoSpacing”><span lang=“EN-US”> </span></p>
<p class=“MsoNoSpacing”><span lang=“EN-US”>(St.lp – St.mp – St.lp) xx qcb + pp x3, st.mp, cr.mp
xx qcb+MK<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=“MsoNoSpacing”><span lang=“EN-US”>(St.lp – St.mp – St.lp) xx FF+PP, cl.mp, cr.mp xx
qcb+MK<br>
(St.lp – St.mp – St.lp) xx hcf+pp, (St.HP-st.lp) xx qcb+MK <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=“MsoNoSpacing”><span lang=“EN-US”>(F.mk – St.mp – St.lp) xx FF+PP, cl.mp, cr.mp xx
qcb+MK<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=“MsoNoSpacing”><span lang=“EN-US”>(St.HP-St.lp) xx qcb + pp x3, st.mp, cr.mp xx qcb+MK<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=“MsoNoSpacing”><span lang=“EN-US”>(St.HP-St.lp) xx FF+PP, cl.mp, cr.mp xx qcb+MK<br>
(St.HP-St.lp) xx hcf+pp, (St.HP-st.lp) xx qcb+MK<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=“MsoNoSpacing”><span lang=“EN-US”> </span></p>
<p class=“MsoNoSpacing”><span lang=“EN-US”>All of these EX combo’s deal just below 400 damage.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=“MsoNoSpacing”><span lang=“EN-US”>As for supers, its possible to replace the qcb+MK ender
with a super. (Costs 3 bar, deals around 500 damage)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=“MsoNoSpacing”><span lang=“EN-US”> </span></p>
<p class=“MsoNoSpacing”><b><u><span lang=“EN-US”>Combo’s
after launcher<o:p></o:p></span></u></b></p>
<p class=“MsoNoSpacing”><span lang=“EN-US”>Launcher - Cl.mp, cr.mp xx qcb+MK<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=“MsoNoSpacing”><span lang=“EN-US”>Launcher - Cl.mp, cr.mp xx super<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=“MsoNoSpacing”><span lang=“EN-US”> </span></p>
<p class=“MsoNoSpacing”><b><u><span lang=“EN-US”>Anti air’s<o:p></o:p></span></u></b></p>
<p class=“MsoNoSpacing”><span lang=“EN-US”>Srk LP/MP/HP (Depends on range, dont recommend, hitbox
on 2013 is weird)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=“MsoNoSpacing”><span lang=“EN-US”>Cr.HP xx qcb+mk (hold) ON COUNTER only.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=“MsoNoSpacing”><span lang=“EN-US”> </span></p>
<p class=“MsoNoSpacing”><b><u><span lang=“EN-US”>Air to air
counter hit<o:p></o:p></span></u></b></p>
<p class=“MsoNoSpacing”><span lang=“EN-US”>On land: cl.mp, cr.mp xx qcb+MK/super<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=“MsoNoSpacing”><span lang=“EN-US”> </span></p>
<p class=“MsoNoSpacing”><b><u><span lang=“EN-US”>Links<o:p></o:p></span></u></b></p>
<p class=“MsoNoSpacing”><span lang=“EN-US”>Cl.mp, cr.mp<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=“MsoNoSpacing”><span lang=“EN-US”>Cr.lp, cr.lp<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=“MsoNoSpacing”><span lang=“EN-US”>Overhead – st.lp
<=
I think its his BEST tool, its <b><u>safe</u></b>
on block and has a huge range.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=“MsoNoSpacing”><span lang=“EN-US”> </span></p>
<p class=“MsoNoSpacing”><b><u><span lang=“EN-US”>On counter
hit<o:p></o:p></span></u></b></p>
<p class=“MsoNoSpacing”><span lang=“EN-US”>Cr.mp, st.lp<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=“MsoNoSpacing”><span lang=“EN-US”> </span></p>
<p class=“MsoNoSpacing”><span lang=“EN-US”>As for <b><u>playing</u></b>
with Bryan;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=“MsoNoSpacing”><span lang=“EN-US”>-Bryan really likes being in the range of the Gatling
combo starter. I think this is where his game is.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=“MsoNoSpacing”><span lang=“EN-US”>-Super punishes <b><u>fullscreen</u></b>
fireballs<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=“MsoNoSpacing”><span lang=“EN-US”>-Gatling combo into overhead or low is really risky.
This is really unsafe if blocked. I could only connect a far standing mp when
the overhead hits. So the risk/reward is most certainly not worth doing it. In
the corner however, its possible to do a cl.mp, cr.mp xx qcb+MK<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=“MsoNoSpacing”><span lang=“EN-US”>-Bryan really loses to neutral jumpers, his air to air
mp is his best, but the hitbox is really high and does not hit below his fist.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=“MsoNoSpacing”><span lang=“EN-US”>-His j.mk has really short amount of active frames.
This makes it harder to time it on crouching characters.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=“MsoNoSpacing”><span lang=“EN-US”>-Overhead is safe thus a really good tool. Probably
his best to opening people up.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=“MsoNoSpacing”><span lang=“EN-US”> </span></p>
<p class=“MsoNoSpacing”><span lang=“EN-US”>-His dashes is almost as good as makoto’s on sf4. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=“MsoNoSpacing”><span lang=“EN-US”>-When trying to tag out, mach breaker tag is pretty
good, but unsafe on block. He has NO safe tag outs on block.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=“MsoNoSpacing”><span lang=“EN-US”>-QCB+PP has armor and can be followed up if used
fullscreen with cr.mp xx QCB+MK<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=“MsoNoSpacing”><span lang=“EN-US”>-cr.lk chained into st.mp is safe I believe.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=“MsoNoSpacing”><span lang=“EN-US”>-J.HP on counter hit causes a ground bounce.<br>
<!–[if !supportLineBreakNewLine]–><br>
<!–[endif]–><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=“MsoNoSpacing”>Let me know if u agree, I’mma post match videos when I
feel comfortable with Bryan.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=“MsoNoSpacing”>Whoops double post</p>
just wondering, wherever you list cl.mp, cr.mp, why not use cl.hp, cr.hp? does more damage<div><br></div><div>and the bnb that i found off this site is:</div><div><br></div><div>any hitconfirm xx fisherman’s slam->follow-up, cr. lp xx QCB l/mk, builds more meter and i think does slightly more damage (i think 298 off of a lp x mp x lp confirm and 308 off of a hp x lp confirm)</div>
Here is a good damaging combo.<div><br></div><div>Double back knuckle, cl mp, cr hp, ex snake pit, Gatling Combination, Mach Punch</div><div><br></div><div>Double back Knuckle has to be spaced so that you are close enough to get the cl mp.</div>
<blockquote class=“Quote”>
<div class=“QuoteAuthor”><a href="/profile/55530/Mood4food77">Mood4food77</a> said:</div>
<div class=“QuoteText”>just wondering, wherever you list cl.mp, cr.mp, why not use cl.hp, cr.hp? does more damage<div><br></div><div>and the bnb that i found off this site is:</div><div><br></div><div>any hitconfirm xx fisherman’s slam->follow-up, cr. lp xx QCB l/mk, builds more meter and i think does slightly more damage (i think 298 off of a lp x mp x lp confirm and 308 off of a hp x lp confirm)</div></div>
</blockquote>
Ah I didnt know about the cl.hp to cr.hp, thanks!<br>As for the fisherman slam follow up, I find it really difficult to connect the cr.lp into qcb+mk<div><br></div><div>Also I just found out today that when u anti air with cr.hp xx qcb +K xx dash foward (no counter) u either end up behind the opponent or in front of.<br>This causes a free mixup</div>
As far as Fisherman Slam follow-ups go, I actually like doing a cr.lp -> st. mp chain, and then linking a sweep. I feel like that sets up much better oki for Bryan than ending in CAAAAW does.