Let us talk about USFIV Zangief here

These buffs are very good.

-2 on hit LPGH means we have a relatively METERLESS combo ender, which means Gief gets more meter and keeps it longer. And THAT means we’ll be able to use his RFA xx U1 combos more frequently.

+5 on hit cr.LK could end up being Gief’s best buff. cr.LP doesn’t (at least not easily or consistently) jail characters when they try to jump; they air reset. cr.LK does though, which is why cr.LK x3 xx EXGH is a very important combo. But you don’t see Gief’s going for it often because cr.LK, cr.LK is a 1 frame link. Now it’s a 2f link. That’s huge, and one of the things that made Gief very dangerous in vanilla.

These buffs don’t just magically make Gief gdlk. You’re still going to have to be very good and likely better than the opponent. If you rely on mashing and landing YOLO ultras to win (Zangitan), this stuff won’t make you much better. But if you’re a solid Gief player (SnakeEyez), you should see improvement.

in the previous thread i read about lariat beating RFA giving fuckton of damage

is true but look risky for both

http://www.gifsforum.com/gif_generator/gif_created/995492a6f176a79841072033a7c16d56.gif?1400869971337

btw that’s some huge gray damage

(if gif don’t work here at 50 sec)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cbr_gic1k1M

Red focus is one of the dumbest things I’ve ever seen in a fighting game period.

It’s more risky for Hakan. Because in the real game no single Zangief will ever random Lariat like that. The move has a HUGE penalty on block. Doesn’t work against opponent’s jumping away, due to the short range. A simple 3 hit string like cr.lp. cr.lp. cr.lk would be more effective, and you can cancel on command into SPD against Red Focus.

I agree with you. The way its presented in USF4. It’s really stupid, and makes it an ALL IN bet kind of gamble.

It would be far better to make Red Focus cost ONE EX bar. Absorb an infinite number of hits. But only gives you a hard knock down on hit, instead of a FULL combo into Ultra.

Is it possible to FADC a move thats being absorbed by red focus ??

Did they buff cr.lk.? Is it still 1 frame link into another cr lk ?

It has one more frame of hit stun, so Cr.LK links are 2 frames now

Has anyone noted anywhere what the damage difference is between picking one ultra or two yet?

I’m someone who likes having the air option of Siberian Blizzard more than Atomic Buster but that’s just me so I’m wondering if the damage trade off from two ultra selects is worth it to have the option of both grabs or if I should just stick to a single ultra based on the MU?

Zangman falls in the 60% reduction tier for W Ultra Combo Double

Invincible moves and some back dashes will evade or beat both Ultras.

Ultra 1 is now more of a factor, after you combo into LPGH. But the damage is so low with Ultra W, that it isn’t appealing. Half U2 in W mode, would do ass damage. What Capcom doesn’t get is, sure, you have both Ultras, but whether it’s Ultra 1, 2 or W - in given scenarios it’s still somewhat of a guess that is no greater than 50/50 (often 33/66) - apart from confirmed U2 upon jumping and 1 frame U1 punishes. Ultras need to have a **HIGH REWARD **due to the high risk.

Evansgambit is right. Just pick one depending on the MU. UCW is useless for Gief IMO. I usually choose to go with U1 since a big damage cr.LK confirm is just as much incentive to stop people from jumping as U2. And if they block it, you don’t die; instead you get another mixup. Also, U2 sucks at catching backdashes and loses to a lot of EX DP’s anyway. It’s useful on paper, but no one really gets hit with it unless they have so much life they don’t care about the risk or they intentionally bait you into it so you don’t have it for comebacks.

I use U2 as another tool for reads, tbh, just as risky as SPD and catches the shit SPD doesn’t in the ranges where I use it (after EX GH, sometimes after SPD, etc…), shortcut U2 is also useful as fuck in some matchups (Bison in particular is one matchup where I use it a ton). U2 is my go-to in most matchups.

W Ultra’s only use for me has been vs the new characters, to figure out which Ultra to use vs them. I’m going with U1 for Poison and Decapre, U2 for Hugo and Rolento and I still don’t know what to use vs Elena since I haven’t fought vs a single one yet.

I’ll more than likely just be using U2. I like having the threat of an air grab since Gief’s already scary enough on the ground at close range and if you condition the opponent to think you’re going for SPD they’ll jump/backdash/DP and get caught by the U2.

That’s just me personally though.

To each their own, but even if you are conditioning them to jump, why risk a 50/50 where you die if you lose instead just using cr.LK, which leads to similar damage and is pretty much safe?

Why risk a 50/50 where you die if the opponent does a neutral jump? SPD and Suplex are just as risky as U2. U2 also has the added factor of fucking up things like Hakan’s U2 or Hugo’s U2. U1 is redundant in most matchups in my opinion, I only use it if the opponent uses a character that won’t exactly jump a lot (Balrog, Cody, etc…) or if there’s a punish that really changes how things are played (Dan comes to mind), otherwise, U2 is the go-to Ultra for me.

The difference with that is you can use normal throw as an alternative if the opp is neutral jumping a lot. And I felt that U1 was redundant too until it became a combo ender.

Any buffered normal leading into U1 is scary as shit. On the other hand, I guess buffered normal into HP SPD is pretty scary too if you wanna use U2. And if you get full bars super/U2 50/50 OR a confirm into RFA xx HP SPD is good too. Yeah, I can see it working both ways; suppose it’s just up to preference and matchup really.

Guys, don’t forget there’s at least 10 characters whom you can combo into U2 after RFC.

I love the new green hand. Down backers can’t react to it. And I might be bad but decent poisons gives me problems so far.

Poison definetly beats Gief, but it’s not that bad. Played against a good one for a long time today, the only thing that really gives me problems is her overhead grab.

Getting super is the shit, and she doesn’t really have the normals to keep you out consistently, cornering her seems to be the optimal strat, be careful when jumping in because her fireball juggles.

Is it just me or does it seem like aa lariat trades a LOT more now? I’m glad the rest of you seem to like the new Gief but I think I might be done. I hate usf4 so far to be honest. The net code even feels worse.

Yeah once you get her in the corner it’s lights out. Those damn fireballs.
I think once the disk version comes out it’ll be much smoother.