I think we’ll need a counterpick for Sagat at this point too, that matchup probably got worse as well.
Thing is, who beats both? Adon? Cammy?
Mochi’s probably the best Sim in the world so that didn’t help either. That literally looks like a 10-0 mu but I’m not surprised. I said that Hugo will be the worst character in the game and I still stick by that. Gief will be close too imo.
It’s a question of frame data and calculated risk. If Hugo FADC forward dashes the limbs, he would be in a better position.
We don’t know Hugo’s frame data, so we can only work with what we know, which is Dhalsim’s data:
Dhalsims far MK: [9-3-14: -3/0] = 60 (100)
If we assume Hugo to have a slow 26 frame forward dash, and if he forward dashes immediately on FA absorb of Dhalsims far MK. He’s at either -9 to -12 depending on 1st to 3rd active frame Dhalsim hits.
It would most likely not be possible for dhalsim to follow up with any far medium or far heavy, as they start up in 9 to 10 frames.
And then, we need to consider Hugo’s option of mashing his light “pro-active/predictive” counter poke to Dhalsim’s far MK, which I would be guessing cr.lp.
If that cr.lp could be option selected into the monster lariat. Hugo would be able to cover more ground - even if it doesn’t combo.
Ultimately, we don’t know enough of Hugo’s tools to make a sound call.
I would imagine, Zangief would make the same plays, o/s HPGH, gamble with KKK Lariat and EXGH.
Disregard my previous post!
The far MK hits twice!!!
I am not having a good weekend, so many issues, down with the flu and almost got into a fight.
Just not one of my days.
In theory you can punish a lot of things if you have godlike reactions. Normal people still have problems punishing sonic booms 
Damn so many glass half empty type of people here. I think gief is looking hella buff. LP GH being -3 isn’t what I’d like but hey it’s better than what we got atm so I’ll take it. His offense is gonna be pretty strong but it’ll be just a bit harder to deal with delayed wakeup into a reversal (assuming that’s possible I think it is). Characters that spd whiff lpgh cr. jab is a safe meaty on = fucked (Rufus). Gief is a lot more solid this patch imo.
Any body know if they kept short jump or removed it? Nothing in patch notes but it’s Capcom so…
Hella Buffed? lets Examine.
S.mk less unsafe on hit, is allready pretty safe on hit because of distance. Is only used for whiffpunishing, so no change in reality.(No speed buff, or hitbox/hurtbox buff.)
s.mp hurtbox active from startup, meaning it can only safely be used as a whiffpunisher, harraze tool is gone.
spd range 1.75 to 1.70, was 1.65 in super. So half of the range buff is removed.
lp gh, still guaranteed punish on hit. Startups 3 frames faster. So its a buff, but a tiny one.
Also regardless if you see your glass as half empty, or half full. If your glass was full to begin with, when its been reduced to half of its original content, its still LESS than what you had before.
Most every vid I’ve seen, Gief is getting bodied. Only one I saw where he was winning was a Zangitan vid, and as usual, he was only winning by doing stupid YOLO shit that doesn’t work on anyone with a brain.
The only redeeming thing I’ve seen so far is buffered normal into EXGH > EX red focus > U1/SPD. Even though the 4 bar cost is high, that shit does stupid damage.
I was watching a couple vids and completely forgot that they took away the kd for ex.gh lol so sad. Looks like the only hope we have is to get 4 bars and then blow them all with the red focus>u1 and hope it’s enough. I’m glad I’ve been playing Hawk for the last few months.
This sentiment doesn’t really make sense to me because Zangief obviously didn’t get nerfed from AE v. 2012 to Ultra. If I was saying what I said in regard to like thinking SSF4 Gief was still good coming from Vanilla, I’d get this statement.
Also, you guys aren’t realizing how sick the new LP Greenhand is. SPD may be slightly nerfed, but it’s much more dangerous now.
EX RFA combos are lame, a sad way to end a great series. Practically easy mode ultra combos for every character. Everyone can land big damage in the same universal way. Those with superior pokes that can be option selected have another edge. Then its up to us to assess the value, of using the Super Combo alone, 2 EX bar FADC into Ultra, or 3 Bar EX RFA combos.
Kind of stupid, now that they put a HUGE price on EX meter. Meter is now more valuable than EVER. 3 Bar EX RFA combos is the New Shoryuken FADC Ultra. Simply a retarded finish to a great game. And then there’s the stupidity of Delayed Wake Up, without penalty.
How is he NOT nerfed? 
s.mp HURTBOX active from FIRST frame. Removing it as a stuffing and harrasing poke. and SPD range decreased by 0.05 which is half of what we got from Super to AE. You think that a 3frame faster LPGH is gonna make up for that? Its unsafe on hit vs. the entire cast, so it only gives something vs. teleports and maybe to cancle some fireballs.
Red focus tactics wont help because we will continue to spend all our meter on whiffpunishes and going through fireballs. If gief Lp-Hands where -2 on hit, id say gief was high tier. !!
I’m in defence of bitbna1. Even though lpgh is negative -3 on hit. When you have it backed by ultra 1, I would like to see people try to regular grab or 3 frame normal. It’s a tight execution window with a huge penalty for error. But a 3 frame shoryuken, being air born and invincible will crush ultra 1. It depends on the risk.
From the footage I’ve seen, it really isn’t that weird to see people with full super bars, if there’s one character I’ve seen using Red Focus the most that’s Gief for sure.
Seems like they are still doing changes even though the game is in arcades dont want to get my hopes up…but…
Good point. There’s still plenty of time to make him even worse.
Exactly poor hawk is probably getting that light spire taken away
That is true. No more anti air trade lariat to exgh. And if LPGH was -2, no more exgh combos or option select exgh. This Russians living it up, he’s got his eyes on the American dream. He’s just paying off his mortgage that is exgh rfc ultra 1.
Lol, how often do u see high level giefs with so much meter to play around with whenever? Its not gonna make a big difference just because Zangitan is blowing up random players at his arcade, which as I have learnt. Is not the same arcade as Daigos etc.
Uriajjo uses it vs Reiketsu’s Vega at the end of the 5th round, at the last round vs Kerberos’s Sagat and in the last round vs Rukupuru’s Poison, he also has full meter several more times in the match, it’s not that weird.