"balance"
lp gh got speed up. But capcom figured that the range coupled with that speed may have been a little too much, so instead of taking back the speed, they fixed the range, which “by the way” simplifies fireball negation
I maintain that only adding the pushback would have been a win-win for both sides. Gief still gets his punishes but all the opponent has to worry about is the dmg and not a setup. Likewise, Gief doesn’t have to worry about being at the wrong end of that -2.
Also I’m sorry, I can’t have a better attitude about having to play Gief like it’s AE but having the WORST versions of his tools that made him strong in that iteration. And after Super, almost every notable Gief fell off hard so we’ve hardly been adapting and “just dealing with it.”
Fireball negation is absolutely obsolete, Oki after SPD not so much.
Let’s try to keep the whining down and come up with strats and solutions - that’s what this subforum should primarily be about, right?
Has anyone played around with the spacing/timing for using lp gh when you focus crumple, wait, cl.s.mp xx lp gh, air reset? does the “speed up” allow for certain meaties that did not exist before?
Nobody’s whining! This is a forum and we’re all just giving our opinions on Gief. All I’m saying is what did we lose? Okay, we lost a lot but that’s fine we’re all used to that by now but what did they give us in return? Basically not a damn thing except for ex.gh hitting crouchers. So is that a fair trade off? Imo no but that’s just me. I’m not even gonna mention gh’ing fireballs cause that’s a non issue with me and I don’t consider that a “buff” whatsoever.
If you got a crumple, why would you go into a reset instead of taking the damage from suplex and then going for the 50/50 on wakeup? Unless I’m missing something, you’re giving up damage and resultant situation is the same.
like after you do a 100% dizzy combo, maybe you are feeling yourself and want to go for a reset.
When’s the last time a Gief has gotten a dizzy in high level matches… That is one thing that has always bugged me especially when Snake Eyez would go off and the stun just wouldn’t happen (I always felt he needed more stun on his moves.)
^ EVO 2014…?
I know we have a video thread, but this on is the most active so I’m posting it here. Since some time has passed, we finally have replays of some high level Gief from the latest patch. Of course it’s Snake Eyez. Thoughts, opinions?
Snake Eyez vs Kazunoko (Canada Cup 2015)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6-enNmmyqxc
Snake Eyez vs NuckleDu (Hadocon VI)
The match against kazunoko was awesome 
Kazu makes that match look in Yuns favor tbh
The match against nuckleDu, well … I guess we all hate that matchup, not much he could have done there. Still very good play from both players
I always thought the Yun mu was way harder than what most people said. I think it’s almost even imo, maybe only slightly in Giefs favor but the problem is really good Yuns are just not out there. Also I remember hearing Snake say the Guile mu was in Giefs favor pre patch but I think it’s done a complete 180 and now since Gief has no mobility it’s way harder.
There’s that match against Xiaohai too at Canada Cup. Man is that painful to watch.
Sagat is not even his main.
Yeah I didn’t see the match but saw the final score. Didn’t some people say that Gief is better now against Sagat cause he can gh fireballs easier lol.
Finally, some one who knows how to fight Zangief? I’m dying to see this match, considering that Snake Eyez has versed Sanford Kelly and Ryan Hart.
It would be interesting to see how Xiaohai plays Sagat. And how Bon Chan goes against Snake Eyez.
How Sagat’s light and medium pokes do against Zangief, but I expect to see kara Tiger Uppercut FADC back dash U2
Will we see a Sagat that feints like Ricky’s Rufus and Fuudo’s Fei?
Nothing as exciting or revolutionary as you expect, really. It’s the same as any high level gief vs sagat match. It’s just sagat shooting plasma at full/half screen and spamming st.hk to smack gief away once gief gets in range. Gief finally gets in? Tiger uppercut fadc backdash ftw. That’s apparently all it takes to win 7 sets in a row.
Got to give it to Xiaohai, his footsies are great here. But Snake eyes has no opportunity to shine due to the nature of the matchup. I can see him trying his best to lp GH to intercept fireballs, but it looks like he pretty much needed to guess when the fireballs are coming out, which Xiaohai took the opportunity to st.hk and cr.hp the heck out of those whiffed lp GHs.
Too bad I have no video reference or I’d post it.
^ Pretty much this, Xiaohai also made use of st.HP whenever Snake Eyez tried to us GH to get close as well. Eventually he lost patience and started using mp. GH only to eat the st. HK match up looked a lot different than the one we saw against Sanford. Also more of the same he finally got in and the pushback would help Sagat regain his distance.
Also the commentary was lulz in ultradavid saying this match was close… While Mike was like naw.
After watching this match. I feel like Snake Eyez has reached a ceiling, with regards to the US scene. He needs to hang with crowds that know how to fight Zangief. Are willing to take risk, make hard reads and put Zangief to the test. and most importantly KNOW HOW TO PUNISH TO THE MAX.
Kazunoko made sure that for every misread Snake did, he’d pay the full price! Every SPD and Lariat was punished hard.
But a testament to Snake’s play is that he was good to learn and adapt. If this was EVO, he would have gone home early. I would like to see more Topango A league style matches in the US.
Snake Eyez’s play here, was vastly different to his usual self. He pretty much went ham with SPD and Lariat. But that’s what you have to do, because you can’t expect to play safe, and expect your opponent to give you the match on a silver platter. Oh yes, I’ll just st.HK right into your light poke o/s GH! In contrast to the play styles of Cantona and Hagejin, I’d say, in this set, Snake’s play was more reckless - borderline impatient. Much different to watching grass grow. In the end, Kazunoko just had the right amount of crazy.
Also, I feel that Snake could implemented cr.LP more and protected the area directly in front of him more, where Kazunoko wants to occupy with the dive kicks, by pre-emptively spamming far LP or far MP.
I think its doable. You can negate fireballs well. Just think that there’s a range in front of you, like cr.LK spacing, where once the fireball enters that space, you just activate LPGH.
The best use of the LPGH, would be to banish point blank. There’s a certain sweet spot, where you can cater for all speeds of projectiles, on reaction much like EXGH. Have to experiment per character basis. Sadly, the timing for U1 or a 2 frame grab is near possible for me, seems too strict, as they’re in lag, but you have much less lag except you have to undergo hitstop or contact with projectile as you “banish” it. The opponent doesn’t undergo projectile hitstop, so it would appear your slightly advantage (eg +1 or +2), or even? (not sure). But I wouldn’t bet the SPD on it. If you can get it down pat, you warp from around footsie range, to the front the front door for a guessing game, with the threat of SPD, if they don’t escape.
Try it and see. Banishing from far, is just for show though.
I know Sagat has some awesome buttons like st.MP, st.HP, cr.HP, cr.MK, Low Step Kick, st.LK, cr.LP. And the most broken of all, Kara Tiger Uppercut FADC back dash, its practically a free chance at 30% damage for 2 EX bars from half screen at the blink of an eye!
I need to evaluate this match. Its not like Snake Eyez to lose patience. This match is all about patience, as you slowly craw your way in. Its quite unexpected to go from a comfortable match up with Sanford and Ryan Hart to this! Definitely the nerf to the high Tiger Shot, is the major change. Against Sagat, Snake probably won’t have the meter for EX Red Hand, unless he pays for it in chip. With speed up GH and reaction jumping, it is possible, but much harder to play without EXGH.