Either that or change the current mp GH to pre-patch lp GH. So we can use lp GH to negate fireballs and use mp GH in meterless whiffpunishes and to close the gap after SPD.
Just give us back the previous Gief. There was no reason to change him at all let alone make him worse yet again lol. I find it funny that they give us the ex.gh cause opponants to rise “buff” but now since lp.gh whiffs for certain combos and whiff punishes we have to use ex.gh more which means less times we have a full bar for red focus combos. So basically the lp.gh nerf totally negates the ex.gh buff. Are they really this clueless about this character? It’s astonishing.
All they had to do is make the red focus hit crouchers don’t know how that was such a hard change to make.
They could have at least increased lp. SPD range if they were going to nerf the GH like this.
I haven’t played since the new update came out and holy shit is gief fucking terrible now! I tried playing a few games and I just couldn’t believe how horrible his mobility is now with the lpgh nerf. I used to be able to chase down people that jump back and now I can’t. I played an Elena that used U2 and I couldn’t chase her down to try and punish it.
I use to be able to constantly absorb fireballs with lpGH and punish with lp spd and now I think that’s a huge gamble to try and do.
The ExGH buff isn’t even that great. The speed it comes out is slower now but I could care less if it forces them to stand on hit. I could just FADC back out of it if I notice that the opponent is crouching on hit to save myself.
I just had to turn the game off it was terrible. I didn’t win a single match with these changes. what the fuck were they thinking?
and yes I came out of lurking just to vent this BS.
ExGH buff was more of a fix tbh … now that it forces stand, RFA-cancels will always hit and lead to either cornercarry (suplex) or high damage with Ultra (especially satisfying if you ex gh through a fireball)
The lpgh is in my opinion better and worse now… it’s worse for mobility, true. But it’s actually better in negativ fireballs and with the higher pushback, for some characters even harder to punish now.
I just dont think Gief is terrible now. I actually think he is quite balanced now. He’s better against projectiles, a little worse in the chasing game but not enough to hurt him very much. I think the st.mp nerf was way worse than the lpgh ‘nerf’ now
Nah, I disagree. To me, being a grappler is all about staying close to a character and mixing people up. Severely limiting the means of doing so hurts a HUGE part of his game. BTW LP GH isn’t just used to punish stuff on block.
Pre-patch, it used to:
- move gief close and fast enough to continue offense after a successful spd (which is hard enough to land in the first place if your opponent knows the matchup and has decent zoning skills)
- be used to option select backdashes on oki. Now it can’t.
- cr.lk to lp GH is the staple meterless whiffpunish in footsies. Now the lp GH can’t be comboed into reliably.
To counter fireballs, we already have lariat or neutral jump or EXGH. And previously, the longer travel distance means we can go for a followup SPD if we negate the fireball close enough with LP GH.
Also, while it’s true that EXGH can now be RFA-cancelled more reliably, RFA cancelling this move requires your entire super bar. How often are we going to use it?
This whole “negate fireballs” argument is ridiculous imo. First off, most good giefs had no problem stuffing fireballs before and secondly who cares if we can gh fireballs. Is that such a huge game changer? I just don’t get it. When I play good players now they all say the same thing to me. Gief is not nearly as scary now. That pretty much sums it all up.
Seriously, who the hell actually tries to GH a fireball in a high level match? That shit is a gimmick.
I made a topic about how garbage gief is now wen the patch hit but I’ve playing him a bit and he still might be playable.
So heres what I find postive about the new GH.
Its not that bad for mobility actually. Its kinda like decent dash whit a hitbox now. Before wen you used lp GH you didn’t have too much freedom where you would end up. It covered A LOT of ground.If people knew whats up they would be throwing out normals and wiff punish it pretty well. Now you can use the shorter range for more calculated movement.
There’s some quite interesting gimmicks in combos and on block because of the pushback. For example if you use the right amount of normals (jab, short/ 3 for good spd range, 5 for wiff or something like that) you can put yourself in the perfect range for lp.spd after the gh hits or you can make the lp GH wiff all together in the combo and be in good suplex position.
Also people seem to struggle whit blocked lp gh punishes too especially whit the pushback. Its still fast as fuck and its easy to surprise and dodge a punish. Everyone is still mashing throw like mad men after blocked lp gh but it don’t work no more and you can spd them from that range. Some people punish it tho.Quite rare still.
But the main thing that makes gief still playable is the fact that MP GH after SPD works even tho is kinda tight. Wen the patch first hit I was thinking he completely lost hes mixup after SPD. If that was true that would have killed gief to DAN tier tbh.
For some reason the MP GH after SPD now reminds me A LOT of the timing you got in vanilla SF4 SPD -> LP GH. Some nice nostalgia there 
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Anyone mashing throw after a blocked SPD is not a decent opponent.
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Using whiff LP GH to get in range for an SPD is a gimmick at best. Losing that was never the issue.
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MP GH after SPD does not give Gief the same frame advantage.
The LP GH nerf affects combos, option-selects, punishes, pressure options and oki game.
I stand by the fact that I couldn’t care less about the pushback nerf. It’s the range nerf. It should have been one or the other, not both.
Gief is still a decent character, but he went from Top 15 to Top 30 probably.
Well no shit bro. I said he was still playable not that hes better or as good as before.
Well, of course he’s playable “bro”. What credible source ever said he was Dan tier? Dee Jay tier? No one. Hell, you said, he “might” still be playable, so bring that all in.
You saying that people who mash throw on a blocked LP GH are in trouble is a pretty silly statement. You’re talking about options he has a block…like, come on dude lol.
You saying it’s not bad for mobility is a pretty silly statement. That’s like saying Cody’s Ruffian kick isn’t bad for mobility. It’s whiff punishable as hell. And now that it covers no ground, it’s bad for mobility. It was a decent tool for mobility before. Decent…at best…against a good player. It was great for pushing a dizzied opponent into a corner.
Whiffing a LP GH in combo for a reset is a gimmick…and it’ll lose to anyone who knows the match-up, mashes, etc. It’s a terrible gimmick that will probably pay off almost never. You’re better off going for a on hit tick SPD than risking whiffed LP GH > atomic suplex. That’s not smart play. You literally leave yourself open twice.
There’s no upside to the changes in LP GH. “Oh, it negates fireballs better…” is about the best thing you can say about the new LP GH. Let me know how that goes for you when you’re still recovering and they whiff punish you. You giving a list of things that work against bad or inexperienced players is silly, “bro”.
P.S. the word is with…not whit.
Those all sound like things that come from people’s ignorance and unfamiliarity with new changes. I doubt if any of it works in 3 months.
To be fair, for what it was. LPGH was overpowered - Whiff punish and chases down EVERYTHING.
It was crazy good, and the best thing to ever have happened to USF4 Zangief.
For certain characters, it could simultaneously cover back dash and jump - leaving them not many ways out.
— Now on to Version 1.04 —
In the original USF4: SPD-MPGH executed perfectly put you at +2 (against normal wake ups) or +1 (against those slightly faster wake ups).
With regards to the max ranged LPGH on block. Looks can be deceiving. Your -7, and even after the push back, 3 frame normal can still reach you, since you gotta shake that booty as you turn around - yup, your vulnerable. For example, Ryu could go into cr.mp or cr.hp xx special, or just raw shoryuken. Timing can be somewhat tight, even for the shoryuken, but put in a bit of training and YOUR 100% GOOD TO GO!
It wouldn’t work in the context described by Beganoo. But it would work, if they get greedy and mash on neutral jump. But even then, 5th limb xx LPGH would be a sub optimal option BUT it would be safe against jump back. It might work against mashed short back dashes, eg. after whiffing LPGH your +3 against 25 frame back dashes, and if in range LP SPD.
It would also appear that you can get a decent workable range, if you keep your hit confirm short, like 2 or 3 hits into LPGH. To make the threat of LP SPD relevant, and then play off that threat.
It doesn’t chase down everything. It just shuts down 2 options: backdash and jump.
The opponent can still find a way out by blocking or reversal. Reversal especially if they have 2 bars to spend to FADC, in which they have a get-out-of-jail card or even turn the tables.
Yes, it limits their options from 4 to 2 (if they don’t have 2 bars stocked), but if a gief players spends all the effort wading through fireballs to get close and/or getting the upper hand in footsies, don’t you think he should be rewarded with some chance to apply pressure?
Jab.gh was not op I’m sorry. It rewarded players that played good footsies and isn’t that how Gief is supposed to be played at high levels? We slowly work our way in and then they have to make a decision and that’s where the fear comes in. Now we have nothing and they basically always get out of jail for free with nothing to fear. Oh but we get to gh fireballs now yay!
Getting few bad gimmicks is still better then getting nothing at all.
Also I don’t care what people say. The push back makes the move really annoying to punish on block. It kinda reminds me of the Q bomb.Very punishable by most chars but yet definitely not punished 100% of the time even in the highest levels of play.The new GH has that annoying timing combined whit the bushback that is easy to miss if you don’t expect it.Its all a small mind game. Test your opponent. If punishes it well there’s a good chance hes looking for it so next time wiff in to SPD and surprise him. I’m not saying its great or anything but it is something… it will definitely get much worst over time wen people get used to it but that’s what happens to grapplers it this game. Gief was the most consistent grappler pre 1.04 but now you might need to throw out a gimmick or two.
Anyway no one is arguing that the old lp gh was much better tool overall.
Btw I sense some butthurt over calling you bro. That pretty funny.
The push back does not make it harder to punish for the majority of the cast. I don’t know where you are getting that from. Your own experience? Maybe in online lag or against inexperienced opponents, but not against anyone who spent 30 seconds in the training room finding the right punish. It’s -7.
not butthurt…more of a mock than anything else. I simply responded to your post and gave a few points on how what you’re saying isn’t really true and instead of responding with any sort of rebuttal, you respond with “Well no shit bro”. Only one of us seemed touchy, my friend.
Yeah, It’s a gimmick as they come. Going for that reset on the 5th hit, is about 5 frames slower than the whiffed cr.MK-SPD gimmick. Still 22 frames of vulnerability. But in game, its unlikely, a very slim chance (unless they are cornered), that anyone is still holding block while being resetted on that 5th hit. Because after the 3rd or 4th hit of the hit confirm, Zangief gives up the ability to visually hit confirm LPGH. So, on the 3rd or 4th hit, opponents know to start mashing their escape plan in fear of SPD, whether it’s jump or back dash. (Zangief can still do a 1 hit xx LPGH, but that would be a guess!) Mathematically at the 3rd or 4th hit point, why would you risk a blocked reversal, when you have BETTER and safer options! There, they can neutral jump to punish LP SPD. At that 3rd or 4th hit point, they no longer fear a hit confirm into GH. Yet, Begannoo is going into the 5th hit! Any opponent who is still holding block at that point, and not mashing an escape, is playing against the odds.
LOL. I was simply referring to its ability to punish; on block, as a raw whiff punisher, and o/s xx punisher, being HUGE. All those ranged pokes slainned by the speed and range of the former LPGH.
I called it then, and now. O USF4 LPGH was over the top. Could be used gimmicky but mostly solidly - in the right hands: lethal.
You always need good footsies, BUT the bar just got much higher. Because now you either have to use EX meter like the AE2012 counterpart, or you have to compensate with “immaculate” spacing, just to o/s xx LPGH. This version plays more like AE2012, and will reward the skilled players, who can position to make use of o/s xx LPGH.
It is probably better at banishing now, once someone figures out the timing. But the payoff still sucks balls. Timing for a LPGH banish-SPD appears strict. You could get the 2 frame grab BUT the window is very small, the dummy would be able to jump out often. Ultra 1 would probably be a guarantee. LPGH banish doesn’t count as contact, as you don’t gain meter, and I couldn’t RFC (not that it would be fast enough to connect) or Super Cancel into FAB, which is rather disappointing. These were rushed observations I noted a while back, so verify at your own risk.
If GH banish counted as contact, that would be great! 60 meter for ONE banish! And LPGH banish xx Super. Still, we should at least get some meter for a banish, at least 15. So we can get ONE EX bar every 6 banishes.
Even if you don’t get the SPD or U1 payoff from the LPGH banish, all is not lost, because you could still apply pressure, so there is good positional value in banishing. Just need to see if its viable at the range where you are too close to neutral jump, and you wish to conserve EX bar for RFC.
Depending on the character, dose LPGH have a magic range where you can reaction LPGH any strengths of their projectile? LPGH is projectile invincible from frame 6 to 20. Need to get those 14 frames to overlap vs any speed of their projectile, and then we may have something.
I like how you ignored my Q bomb point. In the heat of the match things do not always go as in the training room.I really hate wen people just theorycraft and completely ignore any human factor/error in real matches.Take the DP fadc -5 for as another example.How often does that one get punished ? I mean 5 frames is plenty right ?
Now if I said that blocked lp GH is something you can consistently do and should do then you might have a point but i called it a gimmick.Use at your own risk.It might pay off or it might not.
P.S. Pretty sure you were butthurt. I mean you sounded like and old lady whit a stick up her ass emphasizing over and over again on a word that you , for some reason find disrespectful for god knows what reason.As far as the “no shit” part goes. I really meant nothing by it.Too much american entertainment I guess.