He did a great job and if i ever go to a Wednesday night fights i’m buying him a coca-cola.
Man I really felt he could have used the last editions SPD in the Fei match. But man I hate dealing with Rose feels more like she didn’t get hit with the nerf bat.
Snake eye’s matches were all so close. It could have really gone either way. Amazing performance. Rose is indeed one of the most annoying match ups for Zangief.
I don’t think she got nerfed at all. I always thought she was a sleeper character but that mu is really hard now for Gief. If anything just fix that meter gain bullshit from absorbing fireballs. Seriously, it seemed like she had super every 30 seconds against Bonchan. Her throw range is pretty stupid too but whatever. Watching Snake Eyez I really think at the highest level Gief is pretty weak. You have to have the patience of a god, incredible footsies, and make raw reads to win. He did all that this but just look at his last three matches.
Fei just has way better buttons period and Fuudo basically shut down every option. Rufus is way harder than what most say at. Snake literally just did nothing in every round and caught Ricky with the occasional cr.jab os ex.gh. Ricky pressed a million buttons and Snake beat him by pressing like 20 lol but the patience required was crazy. Then of course Rose is just so annoying with her shit. His run with Gief this year was amazing and the highlights for me this year were definitely him and KOG.
I really think Snake Eyez needs to incorporate more option selects into his game. I know Filipinoman and Luffy are different chars, but when Itabashi got a knock down on Rose, he OS’d her to death, catching backdash, soul throw and EX Spiral. Snake Eyez relied on raw reads and reactions to get by those things and it didn’t work out well.
Regardless, that was amazing play. Snake really shows what you have to do to win with Gief at high level. I don’t think its as impossible as we make it out to be but the struggle is definitely real. Also, it seems weird, but I really wanted to see him fight Bonchan, just to see how the match goes at the absolute (so far, at least) highest level.
I think you guys forget that it’s hard for which ever character at the highest level because the people you play against are super good. There’s no easy win button for anyone. Also, he didn’t get bodied by Luffy, it was really REALLY close. I think his game plan was fine, he just sort of stepped away from it in the 2nd to last round. He didn’t get many knock downs which is why he couldn’t just OS Rose to death. He had to make reads after every EXGH and he made a hell of a lot of godly reads.
I don’t want to be mean, but there’s a point where it gets annoying to see that every matchup is tough for Gief in your opinion. Gief as a character relies on patience and you make it seem like that’s somehow a bad point on the character when he’s been the same for 5 years, regardless of the changes he gets.
Every matchup is hard at the highest level of play, the more skilled I get the more I understand that whatever I understood about matchups one year ago was simplistic as hell. I didn’t know shit. But matchups being hard is just what comes with the game. You don’t think Guile vs Ryu or Yun vs Rufus are hard at the highest level? it’s not a Gief-only thing. Gief has matchups where he wins, and convincingly, as hard as it may seem.
I completely agree. Needing patience to win at high levels does not equate to bad character. It’s just the style of play required to win with Gief. If that style of play does not suite you, perhaps Gief is not the character for you.
I think cr.LP OS sweep works after EXGH. After most of the EXGH’s he hit, he didn’t do anything, which I really do think is the best option. It’s hard to get in on and/or counterpoke Rose, so when you do you don’t wanna give that damage/positioning away by making a bad read. Especially at top 8 EVO. I understand that, but as someone who has lost too many tournament matches by being overly safe and careful, sometimes you gotta do it.
He didn’t get bodied in any sense of the word, whatsoever. I just think that letting Luffy get away with one too many backdashes was the small difference that lead to his defeat.
I think he let Luffy get away because every now and then he would start pushing buttons or go for a throw.
If anything I believe Gief would need a buff in causing more stun, I would say damage but they wouldn’t go for it.
lmao, had Itabashi used meter at the end of the 2nd game Xian would have lost twice to the exact same mistake.
i wish he had better way to combat some footsies which if they do another update i hope they make his far standing mk a little better and his far standing hp
Give us a damage buff on buttons like st.mp, st.mk, cr.jab, st.lk. Also cr.rh should be faster and less punishable on block. Jab spd should do at least 170-180. Of course none of these will ever happen.
Alright I got a few questions. Is any of Gief’s cr. :k: buttons worth using outside of cr.tech? And what are his main buttons to almost always use?
cr.LK is a decent ranged and speed (4 frames) poke that can be buffered into green hand. Also stops people from jumping as opposed to air resetting like cr.LP (unless you do it really meaty) so you have to learn to link it (its a 2 frame link)
cr.MK isn’t a very good button to use offensively. It’s pretty slow (9 frames) with long recovery. However, it moves Gief forward a decent bit and makes him crouch pretty low. So, it’s good for going under high projectiles (like Tiger shot) and gaining ground. Also good to whiff it and get SPD.
cr.HK and df.cr.HK are pretty bad. Gief’s sweep is slow (9 frames for cr.HK and 14 frames for df.cr.HK) and the recovery is horrible. It’s a free punish for nearly every character, even when done at max range. However, the range on df.cr.HK is very far so it’s good for wakeup option selects to stop backdashes. I would use it really sparingly in footsies though.
cr.LKs into light or EX GH is his bnb. It was an awesome buff gief got back in ultra that they made it 2 frames again since the Super nerf of making cr.LK 4 frames instead of 3 frames making that link a 1 framer. Like chief said, you want to use his cr.lk instead of cr.lp to keep people from jumping. When you can successfully do the cr.lk combos, people will block low more giving you more opportunities to throw.
perfect. What about his other buttons?
I just wanted to discuss Zangief’s options on the current LPGH meta game:
Again, *Scenarios are tested on Ryu. When I have an in-depth analysis, I shall post a video.
LPGH: -2 on hit (Comboed into and not as a solo whiff punish)
Opponent’s options:
- 3 frame normal and throws: They need to plink and/or be spot on. If they miss by 1 frame it could be lights out via Atomic Suplex. Not easy to do consistently. Not worth the gamble.
- 3 frame reversals: Mashable and easy.
- Back dash into Ultra or Combo: Beats Atomic Suplex
- Neutral Jump and land into full combo: Beats Atomic Suplex
- Back Jump:
Zangief’s Options:
Crouch Block Throw Tech:
- DB (slight delay) LP+LK. You could mash on DB+LP+LK
- Safest option to cover 3 frame normals, reversals and throws.
- Some characters can bait it out. Eg Rufus dive kick
Atomic Suplex: 360 ending in DB+LP+LK:
- The safest of the command grabs, since you have 45 frames of whiff. Compared to 47 frames from EX SPD and 48 from HP SPD.
- You will be point blank after LPGH, so will always be in range (1.0) of Atomic Suplex, and never get the Running Bear Grab
- Throwable and hittable during its 1 frame startup.
- EX Atomic Suplex will beat out 3 frame normals with its armor, but still throwable. (360 ending in DB+LP+LK+MK)
- Loses to neutral jump and back dash. Even against back jump.
- Can be replaced by Ultra 1 and Super - most OBVIOUS option, so opponent’s can smell it from a mile away.
PPP Lariat: DB+LK+LP+MP+HP
- Beats 3 frame mid normals, trades with low normals
- Loses to block, back dash, and neutral jump into late neutral jump attack
Close HK:
- 7 frame startup, 4 active, 21 recovery. -5 on block & -1 on hit. Does 140 damage, 200 stun
- Beats neutral jump, back jump, and back dash
- I can’t consistently get this out, and whiffs at times. Could be my timing.
Ultra 2:
- Catches all jumps and probably most back dashes
- Must be perfect low profile U2. Think L2 FA into U2.
Jump Cancel SPD or AS:
- Probably not viable, as they give your opponent’s more frames to normal you into combo
- Abel’s tornado throw is the exception, but a neutral jump into combo or SPD would be superior. But you could use it to avoid falling sky as well
Back Dash:
- Only viable to avoid throws but you get nothing, probably not viable against anything else.
- Opponent’s could work in an option select to punish back dash, but the threat of Atomic Suplex would deter them.
- Can’t evade any of Ryu’s shoryuken’s. In fact, Ryu gets meaty LP Shoryuken into U1 or EX hadouken if you back dash
Block:
- If they jump, walk forward far HK, or EXGH - timed so they land on it. *Character jump specific
- Character specific timed EXGH to punish the landing frames of their back dash and confirm into RFC
LPGH or MPGH:
- Beats Back dash for the soft knockdown.
- Setups an AS/SPD/U1 punish against neutral jumps
- MPGH is the perfect distance to Ultra 1 neutral jumps.
- MPGH is punishable by jump back into full combo.
- LPGH is safe against jump back
LPGH:
- If they jump back, it becomes a guessing game.
- If they throw out an attack, PPP Lariat immediately at the end of LPGH trades with them.
- If they don’t throw out an attack, PPP Lariat will whiff and they can punish
- If they don’t throw out an attack, the threat of SPD will scoop them on their landing frames, if you didn’t PPP Lariat them.
- A perfectly timed shoryuken on frame 1 of landing will prevent them from getting caught by the SPD.
Obviously need further testing, to see what the best risk/reward options are after the second LPGH.
Note: In scenarios where you press DB+LP+LK etc It’s an option select that occurs on that ONE input frame, because of the multiple inputs such as throw, block or attack or atomic suplex, all happening in that ONE frame, the game selects the best option. Frankly I think its somewhat random.
Care to share and discuss any new tech. All comments/critiques welcomed. Can’t wait for Ultra David to post his findings.