Let Me Know When the Fight Starts!: The MvC3 X-23 Video Thread

Classic Fighting Games Ultimate Marvel VS Capcom 3
581

So I went into the lab and Log Trap seems like it might actually be consistent after the corner back throw. Here’s the trick I use to getting the input (keep in mind I play on hitbox). This is also how I time the OTG with hypergrav assist for anyone looking into that assist.

Back throw > (start holding 2 during animation) > as early as possible after the throw (about halfway between the throw and landing) press 3+Log (hitbox lets me time this really reliably) > 6+M

I did random on the dummy and got Dante/Cap/Iron Fist and was able to hit it on all 3 of them multiple times.

I might actually try X23/Morraccoon for a bit and see how bad it is running without a dirt nap guarantee…Morrigan + Log synergy is pretty great. Log leads into soul drain loops and lets you extend after her DP super without burning XF.

582

when there is a will, there is a log.

583

Alright I managed to get a FT5 recorded so you guys can tell me why I’m so bad with x23(but seriously though, leave some feedback/critique). There are some mistakes I’m already aware of such as a few input errors like calling rapid slash too soon and not getting a relaunch because of it.

584

I honestly don’t feel your X23 is as bad as you say, I watched the whole video and I def feel you have potential with her.

For critiques, the main thing I saw is you have a predictable neutral game with Talon L and Daggars the same way I have with Talon L and Dark Hole. While it covers neutral well enough any opponent can get hip to this approach very quickly. Once you felt that wasn’t working I noticed that you went with more feint mixups as a new way of approach. Daggers hit multiple times and with her wavedash you should always be close enough to mount offense even if they push block. X23 has some very impressive MFC frame traps and mixups to keep the opponent guessing, and if the opponent is guessing against X23 that’s a very good thing! She can’t ever be predictable in her movements.

Next, the opening gambit against Wolverine just isn’t worth it. Better to be safe than to be random out by his bullshit and you can’t afford to lose X23 early. X23 needs to strike first but she can’t do that if she is dead, there’s just some characters where you need to back off a bit and react to what they do (Wolverine is one of those characters, at least for X23)

The other stuff is generally dropped combos, dropped assist calls, stuff that happens to everyone I wouldn’t be too much worked up over that (at first it can be infuriating I know trust me lol but you will get over it)

585

I’m going to preface this by saying sorry…I know this isn’t an X23 vid…but since I think these are 2 of X23’s best assists, I thought I’d post it here just in case anyone was interested in why I think X23/IM/RR is a good team. I am gonna put it in a spoiler though…so if you don’t like seeing non-X23 vids…don’t click it.

Spoiler

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xLPwH7DMtgE

586

Have some match footage to share. First set is pretty gross/awful (first matches of the day) and Staark is running his Mags sub-team, so don’t expect to much from that team. (He switches to his Wovl/Doom/Vergil in the second set and that’s his main team). I think my last set was pretty decent.

So from 0 - 0:30 is Me v. Staark

0:30 - 0:52 is Wandles (Hulk/X23/IM) v. Staark

0:52 - 1:23 is P0tat0 5alad v. Staark

1:32 - End is Me v. Staark.

Normal 'appreciate any feedback bit."

587

Only for X-23

I’d want to say you jump too much, but with X you have to so I think I have to say you air approach too much. A big problem I saw with you being in the air so much was the random CS. It either didn’t do good damage, got you comboed or you talon dived into another disadvantageous neutral position. I think that if you use down+H more you’ll get more mileage from your air approaches ie: if you jump to dodge a beam, down+H to continue your ground approach. Or fake a wall jump approach by using down+H to land and start your ground game. Just be creative, I know you are cuz I seen your labwork.

Throw more, you got out thrown by Mags. Even if you don’t net a combo from a throw you net control and a mix up. Ever since I stopped trying to hit aerial opponents and I just started throwing them, my results have improved. I obviously don’t mean exclusively throw, just start heavily focusing on throwing and you’ll find your percentage rate.

I don’t really know if the rest of my criticism has standing because of how long the vid is. I’ll re-watch and take notes so that I don’t make an ass of myself.

588

The guys around here are generally really good about whiff punishing dHs and Talons so they’re not really a solid option without assist coverage anymore (just like TA Ms and Charged NS :/) and I’d rather use Log as a mixup chance and then pressure afterwards. I do my best to mix up my timing/spacing on CSxxTA options and if I don’t feel good about something I’ll just TA M/H to safety when I can. It def. gets me into trouble when I’m playing someone new and guess wrong on their playstyle. If I have a feel for the player I feel like I can use my air mobility safely/reliably. (At the same time, it usually takes me a few matches to adjust my playstyle which is probably why I do so bad in tourneys.)

The other side of it is timing/spacing requirements that come with playing Log. Since he takes a bit to startup using her air options helps sync up the timing. There have been lots of times where I try to dash in with log covering me only to have RR counter-called by a beam and then get stuffed out and killed. (The opposite side where they’ll start mashing and get hit by log is awesome too, but you can’t do that against people that know the matchup.) Last little part of it is that it’s next to impossible to get a solid punish on an assist and X23 if you’re using her aerial approach options since most options can’t successfully hit both attack angles and X23 has much better reactionary options to avoid stuff from the air compared to the ground. (mags gets the exception here, of course)

In general it’s matchup based, though. If you watch the Wolvie set at the end I stay ground a ton compared to how I’ll play an air matchup. In general, I don’t want to get locked down on the ground against mags + Missiles so I try to stay in the middle of the screen. Log converts a whole lot of random hits so I don’t mind if there’s too much stray stuff going on. Even just doing CS HxxTA L > dHxxCS H does 350k on stray air CS hits.

My throw game is pretty horrendous. That’s my one huge weakness IMO. I’ll go for back throws in the corner since I can convert those with log but midscreen I’d rather go for mixups or space rather than have to worry about tech rolls and people mashing assist on wakeup, or supers, or getting HBDd cause I goofed my spacing/timing or didn’t guess right on the neutral tech.

I’m gonna try to get some more matches recorded tonight so hopefully I’ll have some more to post soon.

589

Can you see what is wrong with this X-23 or this team? I dont know how to play her against Hulk. I always try to put Ammy or Deadpool against him.

590

In general, you seem to have 2 problems. 1 is not utilizing all of your tools, 2 is just playing the hulk MU poorly.

As far as tools, you’re not using your alpha counter at all. That should be giving you a free 900k anytime hulk makes you block something and expects arrows to keep it safe for you. In the 2nd or 3rd match, you had X23 on the screen and were do a lot of MH H > S kinda stuff, but you had Ammy available but never called her. With how much blocking this guy was doing against your pressure, you should have been able to get away with fuzzies/ioh/safe command grab setups. In general he was just letting you tie the noose around your neck and hit you when you pressed 1 too many buttons and whiffed something.

As far as the hulk MU, you have gotta do a better job of punishing Hulk. Step 0 of that matchup is knowing gamma charge range and respecting that option (he was hitting you with so many of those when it looked like you were standing there doing nothing). He was relying on Tasky Arrows to keep him safe, but there were lots of times where you could have probably just raw S’d his ass to avoid the arrows altogether. I know there’s always the threat of gamma charge into gamma smash, but you were never even making him think of relying on it. You hit him once, you try to make him flinch the second time and punish the gamma smash or burn 2 meters for negligible chip.

I think the most reliable way to play the X23/Hulk MU is to run away until you get them trying to run a zoning game, and then use dash back wall jumps to set up the spacing so that you can punish a gamma wave with wall jump > j.LL > full combo. Past that, You don’t want to play air to ground against him since he can armor through anything she has available. On the ground game using her mobility to try and bait whiffs is pretty easy and you can look for opportunities to dash in with c.M, you just have to make sure you let both hits go through so you beat any armor.

As far as the corner Gamma Charge up/down setup, you block the first one, then pushblock the 2nd on the way up to make it whiff on the way back down so you get the free punish.

Since you don’t really need X23 2nd for DHCs, have you messed around with running Ammy/DP/X23? (I think that’s the best way to play this team point ammy for specific MUs. I think the strongest team orders are either X23/DP/Ammy or DP/X23/Ammy, though.) DP/X23 with Cold Star are both pretty dumb, X23 alpha counters do huge damage (and I feel like DP probably has the better DHC than okami shuffle or WXP, though that’s just the gut feeling), DP is probably the better 2 bar THC option for both ammy and X23, and if ammy doesn’t die off one hit or is eating chip for some reason you get the free alpha counter and she gets a lot longer to gain back red health than if she was sliding into the 2nd spot. (Same with if DP comes in and you don’t want to play him 2nd) I’m never super crazy about putting her on anchor, but you can’t really use katanarama for neutral anyways so there’s really no downside if something happens and both ammy/dp get killed.

Other than those little bits I like the team. If I could play ammy I would be running X23/DP/Ammy or X23/RR/Ammy.

591

How her alpha counter can deal 900k damage?
EDIT: Lol, I see now. I thought it was not possible to follow up that crescent scythe with a Talon Attack L because it is a H crescent scythe, that does not have the Talon Attack L as a follow up when X-23 is on point. But somehow its possible.

EDIT 2: Lol. I have just learned that Talon Attack L can be a follw up to the Crescent Scythe H when X-23 is on point too. I remember I tried that before without sucssess.

592

1 -

2 -

3 -

4 -

5 -

1 - What is fuzzies and ioh?

2 - I didn’t understand that “burn two meters for a negligible chip” option. You mean to use THC?

3 - I don’t know how I punish a whiff with a dash c.M because everything Hulk wiffs can be canceled in Gamma Charge, and Gamma Charge is covered by assist.
And I remember I used to try to use s.M to break hulk armor a long time ago, and it wasn’t fast enought. Does c.M, or even s.M, work to break hulk armor?

4 - Maybe Deadpool have the better DHC when Ammy is on point because of the damage, but I guess DP has a worse DHC when X-23 is on point, because Deadpool can only DHC off of Rage Trigger if I cut this hyper just before the last 6 hits, isn’t this true?.

5 - I use Ammy on point because she needs the two assists alive to make a reasonable damage combo. And I guess she is more effetive on neutral with the Crescent Scythe assist alive. Is this a viable strategy?

I use X-23 on second spot because when I swap to her, I am able to use the two bar THC that if connect (I always try to get both enemy assist and point charecter with this), I can launch them up after the final hit of Okami Shuffle and continue the combo. And if they block the THC, I can approach for a mixup. Why the 2 bar THC with Deadpool is better?

And another thing I can do when Ammy is on second spot and X-23 is on point, is the Veil of Mist combo follow-up after the WXP, when this last HC connects without any hitstun to make them tech faster.

And another thing is the level 2 x-factor infinite that after kills one character, allows you to land a level 2 x-factor dirt nap on the incoming character, followed by the OTG assist and continuing the combo.

593

I haven’t looked at the thc for those guys so I could be wrong. I was assuming that dp would do a good enough job of holding them in place to be useful.

in general, I don’t think x23 and thcs work too well since RT takes years to finish and if I have 2 bars I’d rather save for a dirt nap.

IOH is instant over head. Hulk is tall enough that you can do j.MxxdHxxTA L when he’s crouching and still combo.

Fuzzy guard is when you make someone block something standing and then go straight into j.M etc. If there’s a character that is too short to hit with j.m when they’re crouching but you can when they’re standing this will let you IOH on them. The idea is that they go to crouch and block the low that would normally be coming, but the game still shows them standing because of the blockstun.

As far as the 2 bars comment, I just meant that if you bait out the gamma crush he has to dhc or you get a free punish.

If you’re comfortable with point ammy I say go for it. I just think you need to be more aware of alpha counter opportunities. It’s a ton of damage for little risk and a great way to get ammy out safely. I have haven’t had a lot of success using CS as a neutral assist but if ammy’s able to use her counters to keep it safe and convert off it you should be able to make it work.

Mainly, I think that having an assist to let you have some insurance for dirt naps is reason enough to have ammy behind X23. Plus cold star gives dp a huge damage boost thanks to the scaling glitch.

You should def. Have a much better feeling for what’s good on that team. I really haven’t looked into that pairing at all so take all my advice with a grain of salt.

X23’s back dash is good enough to make gamma charge whiff as long as you’re keeping proper spacing. Hulk’s s.m and h only have one hit of armor so X23’s Ms can go through it as long as you’re not being predictable.

I’m not crazy about the hulk MU with X23, I think you’d have an easier time laming him out with dp. If you have to play the MU then you need any little thing you can to help.

594

You biggest problem is not using assists at neutral. CS assist is not as good as your opponents let you get away with, frankly. With Ammy on point, you don’t even have a real assist to help you get in - consider putting Ammy 2nd or 3rd. DP and X23 are both okay as point and/or anchor characters, but obviously both benefit greatly from cold star assist.

Team stuff:

X23 + coldstar gives really good mixups - you can cross up in between the pause of cold star, and then high-low during lockdown if they block it.

X23 + DP THC is safe on block, allows X23 to combo on hit from fullscreen. If you XF, you get 2 or 3 mixups off the lockdown, similar to Ammy. This THC also effectively makes gives DP gun super very fast startup - great for getting happy birthdays vs. beams etc. Fullscreen obviously loses to very invincible stuff, or invincible stuff that gets them out of the way of DP.

THC are good use of meter if you’re fishing for HBDs, or you’re doing 2 vs. 1 on their anchor. Not really worth it otherwise.

As mentioned, Coldstar assist allows Deadpool to unscale glitch his combos - check with DP forums.

Matchups:
I’m of the opinion that X23 wins the Hulk matchup clean. The important thing about this matchup is having clean movement. Unlike other matchups, you can’t really abuse divekicks much, but vs. Hulk, you don’t really need to.

  • Walljump, j.H or j.S beats gamma wave
  • Poking with st.M, cr.M beats Hulk’s st.H
  • Gamma charge backward can be punished with dash, st.M
  • If you try to punish gamma charge, and they “frame trap” gamma crush, you can RT on reaction to avoid it.
  • Instant overhead j.M - obviously this loses to st.H, but that’s a non-issue if you use it with cold star lockdown.

vs. Taskmaster:

  • any time he whiffs arrows at you, you should be able to punish. If you’re in the range to dash under his jump-angled shots, you can hit him on the way down. Same for the grounded angled shot - you can punish his recovery if you dash under them. A good Taskmaster will know what are safe distances for arrows, but this guy didn’t (maybe because you never punished, lol). Obviously watch for shield charge when you’re in that range.

Key note: X23 cr.H goes under Tasky arrows completely - this means whenever that guy did Gamma charge with Hulk backed by arrows, you could have punished him with cr.M, cr.H under the arrows, S every time. Again, if he responded with super, you cancel cr.M into RT - I recommend against raw launch as a punish, since you can’t cancel of of S on whiff.

595

I know this isn’t too much X-23 info, but Deadpool is pretty strong against Hulk. Start Deadpool, and immediately try to get breathing room, which isn’t too hard if he doesn’t have Drones. Once you get away for the first few seconds, you can just annihilate him with guns. If you get close, cold star strings give you a chance for high/lows that Hulk can’t mash H out of, or you can be supersafe and do strings into guns into teleport fullscreen (trololol), lay a grenade/ninja gift out, or both if cold star covers you for it.

And always XF on Hulk’s second AA gamma charge, if you XF during the H a good Hulk will go straight into that or a forward-then-retreating Gamma charge, I spar against a good Hulk a lot and he has those reflexes on speed-dial.

If Hulk gets desperate and tries to gamma charge + assist, if you hit them with random guns you can go into guns super, XF, dash and Quick Work H, get a full berfday combo that should be a guaranteed kill on both opponents, regardless of whether you’re using the otg assist with X or not.

On Hulk, probably play Deadpool/Ammy/X-23 for the good DHC. Against most others, X-23/Deadpool/Ammy sounds like the stronger order, and just hold assist 2 when you see a Hulk on point.

Non-Deadpool notes: With Ammy, don’t be afraid with whip to shoot ice when you’re fullscreen, I saw you trying to close the gap on Hulk and it’s not super necessary. Also, don’t forget that if you’re in whip, you can j.H and switch to sword, dive kick, switch to disc and overhead j.H or j.LM into closeup pressure, which is pretty substantial for Ammy.The inputs are a PAIN online, but just whip j.H itself is an excellent space control tool, and can keep Hulk sitting still, which is nice. His team has to respect it a good deal.

Right now, I like the patience, you are an honest player, and put work in to the team. But this is marvel, and the team you’re running has so much more cheap stuff to abuse. Also, XF3 Ammy is insanely fun, which is my recommendation for her on back. Regardless, though, with that team, X-23 has to work on her own to get close in a good position, then when you’re there, Ammy can get you a hit. Try dashing around a bit more to see if you can force that initial entry (though this is more against Taskymaster than Hulk, st.H is scary).

Oh yeah, and what jaytoo said totally use st.M and cr.M a lot for the Hulk fight, those multi-hits are excellent, and with fast movement, you can be on them with an M in a flash.

596

Just a little note on using RT to evade gamma crush. Always be aware of what dhc options he has. Against hulk/tasky you’re gonna eat a big face full of counter. It’s pretty bad against Wandles where he gets a 1 frame WXP and there’s almost no way to beat that point blank.

On team order, if you ran dp/ammy you might be able to do cutting time> veil > hard tag x23 into s cs hxxta l loops since you’d have slow and katanarama.

597

Fight 1. Blown up by assist.
Fight 2. Blown up during your pressure by option select throw/spidey swing.
Fight 3. Incoming: locked down, pringles
Fight 4. Incoming: didn’t block (should have died). Immediately after: wall jumped into a clap (should have died). After that: you get thrown out of your pressure (bad situation). End of the match: Blown up by assist.
Fight 5. Thrown out of your pressure than ate 2 armored H.

X-23 needs:
more assist awareness (try not to get blown up by assist coverage)
to tighten up pressure (practice your strings or improve them)
to make less obvious approaches (fake a couple)
to not attack hulk with single hit aerial attacks (this doesn’t mean you can’t punish with them)

Oh well, its online play anyway…

598

Online Hulk is a completely different matchup for X23 than offline. It’s super hard to punish his shit online where there is input delay and lagspikes ruining what would otherwise be a dominant matchup for her.

599

Got an LGP last week so I have a lot of match vids to share. Probably 4 or 5 hours total. First one is me getting absolutely BODIED by P0tat0 5alad. First match is an infinite double dirt nap, though RR screwed me on the anchor. Still manage to get a perfect though. For all those times that I’ve said ‘stop doing X or Y, good players will punish the shit out of you for it’, I was talking specifically about this guy. The plus side is he forces you to learn how to play footsies and I think X23 with footsies is pretty awesome.

Next 4 vids after this I either win or go even in 30 min+ sets, so don’t worry, there’s some better stuff on the way. Just gotta let it finish uploading first.

[details=Spoiler]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kFuZ8yDgn9s

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v9E1_ycAlso

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K84Lr7fL2Lc[/details]

Edit: added the 2nd part of the set between Staark and Me. 3 to go.

2nd edit: Added part 2 of the set between DizzyD and Me. (Back half of a long set. Once he swapped to missiles I was doing a poor job of adjusting to the change. Even with the bad streak during his second team, I still ended up winning the set overall. Also feel it’s a good example of using X23’s mobility to weave in and out of pressure.) There’s a part where he’s trying to be super lame and I’m doing an absolutely terrible job of hitting him with unibeam. So there’s a little bit where it’s suuuuper lame…

600

Your movement’s gotten a lot better Merkyl. IMO, you just need to use MFCing for hitconfirmation into Loops/stronger combos. You’re doing really well and your passion for the character shines through.