i noticed that you’re kinda afraid of him. everytime you were close you backdashed nearly instantly [often]. you could have land c.mp / mk xx hands often (be it hit or block).
The reason I was afraid was I played a Sagat just before him. I’m recording it soon. And he wrecked me as well with footsies. I ate a lot of fireballs trying to use pokes or his pokes beat mine.
I know you’re training on footsies, but you avoided on purpose all special moves? Light gekiro, jyasen…
um you have to get in on people to use them. I don’t just throw out random moves. I like to hit confirm before I use either one.
once again its a range thing. i’ll give some time stamp examples from round 1 so you know what im talking about.
match start to 00:12-you played this portion pretty well. staying back for a bit and absorbing some fireballs is a good way to get some meter, and at the same time make him feel cofortable about throwing fireballs and observe his patterns. then you made a good approach by suddenly focus dashing foward and closing in. i know you tried to get mk hands, but just got the lp and thats fine, but that is a good op to focus dash thru and get a KD with a sweep from far, or throw from close. you want that knock down
00:12-00:17-you retreat out of your effective range. not a good option considering you sacraficed any offensive momentum you may have had. ryu wants you there to make you jump. 1/2 to 3/4 screen is his money range. at 1/2 he wants to make FB feints and make you guess, at 3/4 he just wants you to jump foward. then you went ahead and jumped a fireball from max range after it was already out. bad choice. luckily you werent DP’ed. at times vs shotos, you have to go ahead and take a chance, but you dont want to jump after you already see the fireball. you want to take a tactical guess and jump on movement after observing his pattern
00:22-this is the spacing you want to maintain. his low foward cant reach you. your pokes reach him. throwing a fireball for him from here is a 50/50 guess that you dont jump it and get a big combo. inside half screen, and out of his low foward range, he has to take chances. he takes one here and jumps at you, but you were retreating back to 3/4 screen instead of knowing his options at your current screen position. should have gotten some free AA damage here
00:25-watch how he reacts when you dash into your money range again. he sits and blocks. no fireballs. you put him on the defensive just by being in that spot. whenever you get here in this fight, the ryu player either jumps, sits and blocks or charges focus. every now and then he tries to regain control like a good player would, by moving in to try and get a low foward. watch him in the other rounds. more often than not he does something to let you know that you are in control
00:38-example of perfect footsies. he moves into your range, you whiff a jab, he reacts with a whiff low foward, you whiff punnish with your own low foward
00:40-thru round finish-you move from effective range into an area where he wins. inside his low foward/close range area. the speed of his moves, and hit boxes beat your moves here cleanly. lower on life you got reckless trying to get a combo and it cost you the round
in short, work on your spacing. know your opponents most effective range and most ineffective range. dont spend time in areas of the screen where you are outmatched.
mike. or anyone. Is it possible to do something for me? Not too many people have been helping me with the strategy / match-up thread compared to how many people actually post on here and know what they are talking about. I would like to include with “Strategies” basic footsies vs that specific character. Could someone do up a write up over time with things like what you said about Ryu
“not a good option considering you sacraficed any offensive momentum you may have had. ryu wants you there to make you jump. 1/2 to 3/4 screen is his money range. at 1/2 he wants to make FB feints, at 3/4 he just wants you to jump foward.”
This would help people like myself who wants to take their game to the next level and instead of playing Gen like he was before with the godlike jump arc. Your write up is excellent and could be very useful. I mean somethings don’t stick out as much when you try to play footsies, because you are worrying about new stuff you might not have been paying attention to.
Against ryu’s absorb their fireballs out poke them with cr. fierce punch (mantis) m. kick xxx hands fake them out for reversals. bread n butter combo vs. ryu player is cr. low kick jab m. punch medium kick all in mantis you can switch this and add a medium punch roll as well. Bait the dragon punch!! pUnish him as hard as possible as far as pokes m. kick hands beatsw out everything ryu has. You just have to be patient. Turtle Ryu has damn near NO mix-ups you know all of his moves. Just last week we were talking about pokes and how essential they are . Get the life lead on ryu and make him JUMP in on you anti-air his ass 2 more combo’s and ryu should be dead. Ryu’s are Gen’s Son.
Timing ultra 2 2 ru’s fireballs in the training room equals ryu not being able to Zone you anymore… not in a way that can damage you.
p.s. stop living in the past Gen’s jump arc wasn’t THAT great he was STILL getting bodied when he had it. SSF4 has been here for a while now man.
actually his jump arc was perfect. and just because ssf4 has been out for a while doesn’t mean shyte when someone is trying to learn something. That’s like you trying to learn basketball and me telling you that you should be great because basketball has been out since 1891.
I’m trying not to live in the past but; it’s called reflexes, reactions etc. old habits that worked, they don’t now. Now I have to change my game, and it’s not like I was trying to change this aspect that long ago. It’s only been 2-3 days. So give me a damn break. I have other shyte on the go like hockey, gf, going back to school etc. I’m not Daigo and don’t pretend I am. But I do understand the damn game. However, footsies is some what new to me. I’m asking people to school me, not treat me like I’m an idiot. I’m already swallowing a hard pill to swallow and realized my game isn’t up to par. So spare me aight?
yeah i tryed it in the second round, but im not confident enough to use in that way. i tend to got for a jump’in combo instead.
Getting to the right distance and jumping in if you know it’s safe for a punish is way better than using Oga IMO. Oga vs Hadou spammers would only work well to bait something like a SRK with a Shallow Oga Dive so you land as the Hadou passes under you but you are out of reach of a SRK. Other than that. I try to stay away from Oga if possible vs shotos.
tbh i get a little bit scared when i play shoto’s due to the SRK mashing. so i try to play really cautious. i use the crane overhead against characters that dont have a good reversal move. i’ll try and include it against shotos.
Well early in the round you should be able to tell if you can do it. They will do a few things. 1 - poke you. 2 - mash of some sort like SRK. or 3 - let you make a move stay in block then try to reverse. Against 1- pokers, staying just out of their main wake up poke range aka crouching short is popular. You can reach them with the Crane s.MP. Their c.LK will whiff and you possibly get a hit. 2 - Mashers, use something like s.Jab to bait something out then down block etc. see what they do. Then counter. 3 - Turtle, keep applying good block strings something like PPP c.LK, c.LP, KKK s.MP can work well to break up their turtling. Or just back off dash up and throw.
Someone please interject if I’m wrong with these statements, but this is how I would approach these three common types of players.
i’ve never really seen Gen as a footsy character. he does’nt have allot of moves that give him priority like ryu does, and now his main footsy tool mk>hands the range has been nurfed its difficult. I tryed playing against a ryu just using footsies, but everytime i tyred using PPP c.hp or c.hk … he kept focusing them so i went back to my main stratergy of jumping at the right times.
the main problem i have is how do you get it range to attack but out of the range of your apponent?.. i dont really get it, bcoz if your in your attack range… surely you will also be in your apponents range too?
well from what I’ve taken in. Yes and no. You are in their range for a second as you back way and make them whiff their normal you move forward and use yours or dash in and start something. Something else that could happen is they use their normal but get the range wrong or the normal you want to use has better range etc, and can beat their pokes or trades.
Fuck Gen. I’m actually worst with him now. I’m losing every fucking match because I’m trying to play footsies.
lol. dont give up dude. i told you that there will be some losses as you try to retrain your gameplay. stay off of ranked match for a while. you wont take the losses so personally if you are in endless. also re read and study maj’s footsie guide stickied in the vanilla sf4 section. watch those vids that he put in closely.
your wins will come back when you allow yourself to start jumping again. only you will be a lot smarter about it. even if you only make yourself not jump for a week, your play will be much improved when you go back to normal
EDIT: and shariggan mo, you just arent comfortable right now while in striking distance. it takes practice, but moving in and out of your sweet spot will be natural eventually
Shoto’s can be hard to play footsies with. You just have to find the right poke to beat their main poke. So with Ryu’s obviously I try to bait out that POS c.mk and punish it with c.hp. C.hp in general against Ryu has done really well for me. And most Ryu’s online are scrubtastic and if you start beating them in footsies they’ll just start spamming fireballs and thats when it’s ok to start jumping.
Ken can be very tough because his step foward mk. Honestly I try to avoid playing footsies with him and just play very defensively and always stay out of the forward mk range and if he does it I try to always be ready with sweep. Also block after the kick because they ALWAYS do one of two things, throw, or SRK. It’s a stupid strategy but easy to punish if you just block.
Akuma’s also you just need to keep a good distance because s.hk has stupidly good hitbox’s. One of the things I do against people who have a little bit better advantage in footsies and I’ll go in and poke a few times to make them think that I’m going to try and be offensive but then I just block their pokes and then just getting out of range and punishing them.
And messiah. Footsies is hard with any character, Gen is actually one of the easier ones to learn it on, and it was especially easy to learn in vanilla because all you had to do was mk to hands. Now it’s a bit harder but when you compare to other characters like Cammy, her footsies are terrible.
Think of this, Gen can basically hit confirm a super from a poke with little to no risk of them blocking it or you just screwing it up. Mk to hands, buffer one forward super motion, you see hands is hitting, do the motion again and mash punish and there’s your super. Some characters can do the same by counterpoking, but it’s a bit harder and not nearly as easy to confirm.
Oh and PS: EVERY character has counter pokes, it’s just a matter of finding what they are and when to use them. Some may not be as good as others, and some may be harder, but they all have them.
Excellent post - I learned a lot from that!
personal i starting to miss gen range, haha maybe im not use to ibuki mk which is good for fishing for a start of knockdown. but i miss someone whiffing something and me hitting them with a long range poke from gen.
course i hate trying to mix anything up with ibuki, because i get jab, srk. i know i should try to fish for a knock down but it so annoying to get it started. even then she not like rufus, where he really hard to get him off once he gets in. plus she got lower heath so if i fuck up, it hurts.
uhh i hate the defensive nature in this game, sometimes and at the sometime i love getting perfect on someone who get vortex hehe.
This, so goddamn much.