Yeah that’s why I used sMP too (end of the video) … Same results anyway.
You’re stuck in V-Trigger in the cracked PC version, so all of this is done with V-Trigger dashes activated.
Not sure VT backdash changes much though, forward dash though changes, that’s for sure.
Pretty much this. I don’t think anything else needs to be said.
It does change, I’m just not sure how significantly.
Aren’t you confusing frame advantage with guard recovery? They’re different things. Frame advantage is a calculation of move recovery and guard recovery, but canceling into a special move or a dash or whatever cancels that move recovery so frame advantage means less.
I could quote you again, but hey, kinda tired.
Just run, no problem.
J/K :
You could have just said “I was wrong” instead of trying to shame me as a noob you know … That’s a valid option, even on internet …
Indeed.
I still used both sMK (since it has more reach for poking into setups) and sMP (since it can be special cancelled AND you can apply a frametrap with cMP afterwards, meaning you can mixup dash / ftrap / etc).
But both options end up being way too slow to punish a masher, hence not being viable as a way to prevent people from trying to mash cLP during your dash-in attempts, something Caliagent told us to be possible.
Merged double post.
Right, but if you’re canceling the move recovery, the moves with the longest guard recovery would be hard attacks, not medium ones.
You’re correct, I’ll try with heavies then. Though it will lose the “mixup” options from sMP (which is the best candidate for dash shenanigans).
Edit : Just tried with sHP or cHP, it’s even worse, since you end up out of range to even sweep your opponent in both cases.
You cant punish a reversal jab with vskill backdash into sweep. It’s just way too slow.
If you think that the opponent is not going to reversal jab, then you might as well cancel into forward vskill, or go for a frametrap or go for a fireball if you are cancelling off further reaching normals.
I meant frame advantage after cancelling to v-skill. On block you’re like -4 and -9 with forward and back respectively.
I’m wondering what’s so spooky about jabs that makes you think that going for a string that starts you off at -9, then with a 18f gap, follow up with a move that’s -12, is a good deal. It barely does what it’s supposed to and if you’re wrong you’ll die.
You realize it’s the whole “debate” here ? =)
That setup is not a good option to condition people into not mashing jabs when you command dash out of a normal, since, like you said, it’s unsafe and doesn’t work at all.
You’re much better off using a frame-trap after sMP than gambling into a backdash into a sweep considering 1) you won’t be able punish any jab mashed 2) you will be unsafe.
That will condition them a lot more into not mashing jabs, and in turn, you can try and command dash forward for more pressure etc
But backdash > sweep will not prevent them from mashing a jab, since they have plenty of time to mash, then guard the sweep.
Na, mp has one more frame of blockstun if I’m not mistaken.
I did not.
1 frame of block advantage ? Maybe … I’m not sure … and that makes it “garbage” ? 
Doesn’t change much in the setup used, since I can delay jabs and still easily block the sweep. 1 frame won’t change anything. (as shown in the vid, since sMP is used at the end)
(Unless you just thought about advantage on block with no dash cancel, sMK being -1 while sMP is +3, thus you saying “garbage frame advantage” … not considering dash cancel at all lol )
Fuck the setup. Forget that it exists. I’m talking about in general.
-4 is garbage. -3 is also garbage, but less so, especially when you have other cancel options to mix it up with, and some characters do not have any 3f options. st.MK is just tremendously bad for dash shenanigans. If you back dash, they can jab and recover before you can whiff punish. If you forward dash, a jab will punish you. If you don’t cancel, the jab is still fine to contest with. There’s no mixup because the jab is always good. Pressing jab after a blocked st.MP is not fine, because they’re gonna eat a ch combo, so they’ll be less inclined to challenge, which is another way to open up the possibility of a dash cancel.
Anyway, fuck st.mk. I’d rather fish for cr.HP confirms than try to get gimmicks to work at that range.
You’re basically quoting me you know (read 2 posts above)
I agree that sMK offers no real mixup potential, and that sMP is like better in every way (except when it comes to poking).
All of this started when I talked about gimmicks, a few pages in the past.
The circle is complete, I can rest and leave the rest (pun not intended) to you
Can anyone test if you can get anything if the vskill overhead combos into anything if it hits them out of the air?
Yeah it has startup… a 3f startup. It’s pretty good. Only startup it has is us trying to qcf before the button.
Good luck not having people jab on frame 1, since you have a huge input buffer in this game. It’s not hard to do. The “setup” is wack as fuck and we’ve been discussing it for 2 pages like it’s an actual thing.
cr.HP is her best button and people are sleeping on it. Also, to anyone using jabs, don’t. Just use st.LK.
I sure as hell am not sleeping on cr. HP. Makes a huge difference against Cammy and Bison.
I have had plenty of luck with this already against solid players, forget about the idea of hitting a frame 1 jab, of course that shit is impossible
Like I said from my first post on this subject:
by “the concept is still correct” I mean you’re gonna net a lot of CCs with that sequence (or setup, or whatever you wanna call it, sf4 ppl probably not gonna call it a setup). Why? Because people press buttons when they recognize that they have an opportunity to do so, and they often realize it too late. If somebody is literally mashing jab there are better ways to deal with them but it doesn’t change the fact that this sequence will often result in success. Just like it did in the beta, but also just like it did in cvs2, in 3s, in sf4 etc.
Edit: I’m pretty convinced backdash into LP elbow is a better choice usually especially game 1 though, low risk low reward is best in sets
Oh yeah c.HP so important. c.MK can’t whiff punish for shit but c.HP does a good job. Against stuff like sim normals, gief s.HP, birdie s.MK I’m using c.MP. but anything far and low like laura c.MK, karin c.MK, c.HP is your best bet. And it is self-confirmable. Great normal.
does whiff punish s.LK combo into qcf+LP? that looks to have one of the better hitboxes. c.MP moves her forward a fair amount but has a deceptively high hitbox; wont whiff punish ryus c.MK.
This is a great question, I’m not sure about the answer. I suspect it won’t work on something far like karin c.MK and that Ryu c.MK will work but that’s just intuition that could be wrong.