So if I tried to frame trap with s.MP & s.HP(5 frame link), could it be interrupted with a move that starts up in 3 frames?
I also can’t ever seem to land her command throw, after about 30 matches I’ve switched to just using her normal throw, it comes out faster, does almost the same damage, and is less punishable on wiff. It’s not better then other normal throws in the game (in fact I think chun’s might have a little more range) but its felt like her command throw just doesn’t do enough extra damage to justify that slower start up and massive recovery. For anti-air I’ve been using qcf hp. Also, it may have just been pure luck, but I’ve also used cr.hk as an anti-air with surprising success as it seems to low profile some attacks.
The few times I did land sunset wheel, it was because I followed in her projectile and had already trained them not to jump or get qcf hp’d, so their reaction was apparently to block.
The LK command grab has plenty of range, I’ll try to explain what I said, because it was probably too brief for this thread.
5LK 5MP 2MP
The idea here is to catch a button between 5LK and 5MP, leading to a confirmable counter hit so you can combo the string into MP bolt.
Once they respect the string an LK command grab (or just a step forward normal throw, slightly telegraphed however) will catch them.
5MP 2MP
This is also a frame trap, used pretty commonly after a jumpin, you want to hitconfirm the jumpin so can MP bolt after 5MP, but if they block it the 2MP can frame trap, though I would only cancel into LP bolt unless you are confident.
LK command grab or walk forward throw will also land after this, similar to after 5LK, it’s basically the same idea, just layering multiple options onto your strings so you are serving more than one purpose.
EDIT: The idea of her command grab is not the damage, it’s the post hit situation, while back throw is also pretty good, allowing you to get a meaty after a dash, it gives up positioning. Command grabs allow you to pretty well cover quick getups and easily time a meaty hit/throw which can lead into the same/similar scenario. I do suggest you use normal throw in situations where you aren’t pretty confident they are respecting you though, because it is much safer and you can react to jumpouts with HP bolt.
Keep in mind LK sunset wheel also has quite a long range, which really helps in tick grab scenarios using 5LK and 5MP which have enough advantage to stop simply jabbing out.
Redacted upon further testing.
Ok, so you need a Bolt after 2MP to get in. That’s what I was missing. Thanks for the detailed explanation.
Does this trap apply even when MP Bolt isn’t blocked? Or is it good to go for the safe Rodeo Break/Split River knockdown instead?
No no, you don’t do that haha, the idea is to either hitconfirm the 5MP into MP bolt OR on block, mix up with command grab or the frame trap.
5LK and 5MP are +3 on block, meaning you can command grab without them being able to jab you, some characters can back dash though, but 2MP or 2HP/2MK worst case will catch that if they are doing it.
If MP bolt gets blocked, you get punished, unless your opponent is sleeping or confused. Or bad.
But then again, 5LK 5MP will get them out of LK grab range on block unless you do a little step forward… I don’t get it. Do you have any replay ID where I can see the frame trap in action?
(Sorry, I’m really new to frame traps, even if I think I understand the theory)
You are still misunderstanding, it’s a mix up between frame trap AND command grab, so you jumpin, first normal, then the mixup.
2 normals will push you out of range for a command grab.
A frame trap is where you leave a gap for the opponent to press a button but not long enough for it to hit, so you get a counter hit.
5LK is +3 on block, 5MP is 6 startup, this means it should theoretically trade with 3 frame normals, but this game has a priority system and 5MP will counter hit 3 frame lights. Command grabs also beat normals if they “trade” so our 6 frame command grab is especially strong here too.
5MP is similiarly +3 on block.
These are 2 separate strings.
jumpin > 5LK 5MP, the idea here is to set up a counter hit 5MP (confirm into 2MP) or to tick 5LK into command grab.
jumpin > 5MP 2MP, the idea here is to hitconfirm the 5MP into MP Bolt or on block mix up between 2MP or command grab.
The mixup is slightly weaker here because you probably wont be able to hitconfirm 2MP on its own, but you do this when you expect the jumpin might land, because you get a better confirm from 5MP into MP Bolt than you would the 5LK into LP Bolt
AAAHH now it all makes sense. Didn’t catch where the mixup was supposed to be, sorry 
Indeed I even forgot to try tick throwing out of LK… seems to work with all versions of Sunset Wheel up to HK.
oh my i’ve been away from the forums for years now (still rocking av from 2012 lol)… i didnt touch the beta at all (nor did I keep updated with the news) and now i got plenty of homework to do
looking forward to being (slightly) active again in the forums
EDIT: nevermind I was confused
What sort of followup do you all recommend after you hit an LP bolt charge?
you could do that if you wanted a confirm but you can’t tick there
The only thing that is remotely safe is s.lp which unfortunately only gets you another LP bolt charge. After youve conditioned them to block you can go for the command throw. Ive found that LP Bolt on hit followed up by command throw hits pretty much 99% of the time
Edit: My bad, thought you meant on block. So yeah, on hit command grab is probably your best option. If they start jumping out of it you can smack em with a s.mp or an HP bolt. If they backdash you might be able to hit them with a crouching or standing HP, but I think it might come out too slow
LP Bolt on hit, if your opponent has 3f normals LP/LK/cr.LK/cr.MP/Throw should be safe if they don’t use a Reversal. If their fastest normal is only 4f, add Command Throw and MP/MK to that list.
Soo online after every blocked lp charge I’m getting thrown non stop… is my only option here to spam throw as well?
Do a late tech. Leave enough delay that you can block some attack, then throw tech. If done correctly and they attack, you should be attempting that tech while you are in block stun
What are her anti-airs aside from QCF+HP?
st mp and st mk as ground normals. jumping mp and lp are also good.
I lost so many matches because I tried to anti air with st mp though…that step forward she takes really screws me up
Standing Jab anti-airs everything since it’s 3 frames.
Yeah at those ranges you need to jump back MP to tag em.
Its my favourite anti air anyway; bitchslap straight outta the skies.