I use Doom as anchor and he’s definitely a threat in the back with XF3. Faster projectiles all around that do crazy chip, moves 30 percent faster, sphere flame level 1 does 830,000 damage which can blow up people whiffing normals or specials in the air or just act as a really easy way to kill someone in a combo very fast. Using Doom in the back means you wont have an assist to use so it’s definitely important to use his other main tool to start offense which is super jump up or forward to air L photon shot. In XF3 that activates very quickly and recovers quickly enough where you can easily dash down and start an offense. If you were already close enough to the opponent before doing this you can cross them up with an air M as well for more mix up.
The main issue you’ll run into with Doom as anchor is that his air normals are kinda underwhelming for air to air purposes. The best you’ll be able to do is f+H foot dive in or try to lock them down or hit them out of the air with your j.H heavy gun which gets improved speed and causes an unrecoverable juggle state if it lands at neutral jump height. You’ll definitely have to keep air L photon shots and air L or H plasma beams going to maintain pressure so you can start an offense. Just flying around in the air with foot dives or air M’s alone wont net you much offensively especially when people catch on and start air throwing the shit out of your slow start up jump normals or wave dashing behind your foot dives. Definitely have to have your offense covered by super jump air L photon shot first or people will just block and air throw you all day. If you’re too far away to get in range for air L photon shot turn on fly and dash into range first or at least beam them down for some quick damage/chip with air plasma beams.
The secondary issue you’ll run into is that Doom can’t cancel his dash into normals. His ability to cancel his normals into dashes means once you get in you’ll be able to stay in due to your unique ability to dash through advance guard. The issue is before you actually get in you’re not going to be able to do Wolvie/Mag/Wesker type offense where you can tick and trap on the ground with c.L’s. You’re going to have to set up your offense from the air because your only tools to really set up an offense from the ground (tri dashing with jump cancelled dashes) gets easily air thrown since the speed that you can go up in the air and come back down with a normal is not as quick as Magneto’s. Along with the issue of not having normal cancellable dashes if you just run along the ground to move in you’ll literally get air thrown out of your dashes all the time because the opponent will eventually start to figure you can’t move forward on the ground without putting yourself in an airborne state. Allowing them to air throw you even though you’re almost touching the ground dashing at them.
I saw a little bit of it from a video recorded of the grand finals. Made good use of his left right dash mix ups once you lock people down. Something I need to do more of myself. Definitely used a good bit of the air photon shot to cover his offense which a lot of Dooms need to start doing also.
where can i find that footage?
kind of disappointed to not see more high level doom play. Feel like our doom’s are hitting a wall in the technical advances department
Has anyone tried using Dooms SF hyper to lock a transforming phoenix into blockstun to apply mixup? I think it would be very useful for the DoomVPhoenix matchup… just floating around ideas
I disagree. I feel like Doom does not benefit from XF3 as much as most characters. While the chip damage on a single plasma beam is nice, I feel like it’s hard to force the opponent to eat the chip because of how slow the start-up on it. Unless the opponent has 50% health on their last character and no X-factor left, I don’t think the chip game is going to go in Doom’s favor. The damage increase from XF3 is also not very important in my opinion because of the crazy amount of damage Doom already does. On more than a couple occasions, I have reverse OCV’d with 3 openings without using X-factor. Additionally, while the speed increase is helpful, but it doesn’t make Doom un-managable like many characters.
Obviously, XF is helpful when you use it to cancel guard stun and then kill the opponent with it, but I think this is it’s greatest use for Doom. Thing is, you don’t need XF3 to use it for this purpose.
In summary, I don’t think XF3 benefits Doom enough to warrant saving it for him. Use XF2 or XF1 with a character that benefits more. Use it to kill off a character after blocking an attack. Doom can hold his own without it.
Do you option select your air-dashes? It can definitely help in this department, though it doesn’t completely solve this problem.
Yeah OS air dashes are pretty simple to do so it’s something I regularly do. You just plink every dash you do basically.
With the XF I use it more so to augment his offense than use it for chip. People can turn on XF to negate chip any ways so if they turn on theirs you’re not really going to be getting chip any way. Using XF in general to chip people down isn’t really reliable unless they’ve already burnt their XF early.
The main thing I do in XF3 with Doom is close the gap with his 30 percent faster movement and force people into situations where they will try to air grab me out of my faster jump cancelled dashes. Which then I can counter hit that with faster j.H heavy guns that create juggle setups on hit. You can slip in a level 3 from a pretty good distance to kill them if you have the meter after landing one or just do s.H into combo. You could definitely use level 1 or level 2 XF to guard cancel but since AFAIK Doom can’t OTG off his level 3 it’s best to have it in the back so you can stop them from mounting an offense on you safely without worrying about the guard cancel. Allowing you more freedom to open them while sitting on the guard cancel.
The main issue you’ll run into despite all of that is that better players will know that you can pushguard projectiles after blocking them which the push back on projectiles is pretty nasty pushing you pretty much all the way back to the other end of the screen. Which means you’ll have to vary your projectile and non projectile based offense to keep people from pushing you out. Another one of the reasons why Doom is pretty reliant on assist to help his offensive outside of XF. Once you get in you’re fine because you can dash through the advance guards and if you force them to the ground you can start using jump cancelled dash left rights.
On the other hand I’m starting to realize that with X23 also on my team she was also designed as a character that utilizes XF to increase her power. Once you land a dirt nap level 3 you can do Wolverine style pop XF and finish them off with OTG combo. Which allows X23 to run through a team with just level 1 or 2 XF. Then if something happens to her I can just clean up with Doom in the back without too much effort.
Level 3 XF doom also greatly increases the threat of his air/ground throw.Without XF and alone, you can get a maximum of like 650k off a back throw mid screen and around the same in the corner.With XF though, a back throw will kill every character as OTG st.H into launch footdive combo into cr.m, cr.H xx sphere flame does like 1.3 mil. Or you can just do back throw,combo,sphere flame,XFC into another sphere flame for the same results.
I suppose I forgot to mention that the single best reason to burn X-factor early is so that Doom is ahead in the life game if he has to come in. He doesn’t need to close the gaps and worry about advancing when the opponent is forced to come to him.
While this is true, there are two things I’d like to point out regarding this.
Back throw mid screen combo into Doom Time is closer to 700k to 750k damage PLUS a guaranteed 70k from wake-up chip while the corner combo version is close to 900k plus the wake-up chip. This is a lot of damage and unless you have yet to damage the remaining character(s). I understand that this is not the same as guaranteeing a kill off a back throw - which leads me to point #2.
Not saving XF3 to increase the threat of his air back throw means that you’re doing more damage earlier in the match. This significantly decreases the likelihood of the opponent having enough health to survive a non-X factor’d back throw, making it just as threatening.
To all my points from my previous post and this post into one concise summary: I think that, for Doom specifically, the benefits of one of his teammates using X-factor earlier in the match outweigh the benefits of his level 3 X-factor.
So I was playing last week after playing and trying to get used to the crap that is Super Chinese Fighter 4: Everything is Safe edition, and I’m using a new team (Doom/Task/Sent) some weak match ups for my Doom so far is Wesker, Dante and Ammy, any thing I need to do in those match ups?
For wesker personally i think its ok to put full screen finger lazers.Also, dont get too greedy with the dive kicks or dash ins because he can just counter hyper. Usually, wesker seems to be my opponents’ best character a majority of the time so if i do make contact, i usually pop x factor before the second relaunch, continue combo and cancel into level 3 when i can.
For dante, if they aren’t great, I usually look to abuse the opportunity to air throw a badly time teleport or whatever from them. Dante has a lot of tools but imo he doesn’t have great ways to open up opponents. I tend to not try to zone him. Instead, keep like a mid screen distance and look to get quick instant air dashes or triangle jumps in there while Option selecting air throw. Dante has adavantage to me in that matchup although i wouldn’t use x factor to kill dante unless he was the last character.
For ammy i freaking do not know. The dog is hard for doom to deal with. Only reassuring thing is that one combo will probably kill it.
I’ve been trying to figure out ways to force mixups on snapped in opponents(primarily phoenix) with my team of Chris/Tron/Doom. With Doom after landing a snap in the corner, upon opponents entry I would jump forward and do j.M(1 hit)+tron assist, air dash up-forward, j.f+H(whiff). The j.m seems to put the opponent in enough block stun to land without acting with an airdash or teleport, the footdive whiff as we all know will crossup the opponent in the corner allowing tron or whoever’s assist to connect the moment they leave blockstun.
I’ve recorded and played this back against myself, and it seemed legit, but I suck. Is anyone able to confirm some validity in this strat?
The mix-up isn’t bad, but based on what you wrote, it seems like it might be unsafe on block because of how long Doom will be stuck without being able to perform actions after he gets behind the opponent.
You might be able to just j.:f::h: under the opponent and still switch sides. If it works, you’ll have more time to follow-up with Doom and if it’s blocked, you should recover and be able to grab the opponent as soon as they touch the ground.
I’m surprised it took Clockwork that long to come up with a block hit confirm for Doom. Even something simple like c.L, s.M works since that has the same horizontal range as c.L and activates more quickly since c.L is 6 frame start up as opposed to the 15 frame start up of s.H. s.H probably has decent priority if you can meaty it on top of people but characters with quick ass low profile normals like Wesker are going to blow up Doom’s s.H with relative ease I would think. s.M gives long confirm on hit and since it hits twice just like the s.H gives you more of a threshold to get past an advance guard.
I’m actually starting to believe that c.L, c.H can be used for hit confirm. c.L, c.H is important because it has more range than c.L to s.M or s.H. Especially since left right mix ups are a big part of the game now it’s going to be imperative to utilize Doom’s left right dash jump cancel mix ups to get people off block in the mid screen. Very hard to see and block on reaction once you get it down but the only issue is that sometimes you’ll end up so far away from the opponent that your c.L will land but your s.M or s.H will whiff.
c.L, c.H is the only thing that will land at absolute max range and what I believe makes things easier to hit confirm in Marvel is that you dont have to link anything. You can just slide your fingers from c.L to c.H and then watch what happens in the game. If they get hit mash S and go for combo. If blocked dash through and keep up the pressure. If for some reason your c.L whiffs the c.H wont come out.It basically works as an easy option select.
Same thing I do with Dante. Just slide L,M,H on the stick. If I hit them his full ABC chain will come out and then I launch. If it’s blocked I call assist and cancel into teleport or bold cancel. If it whiffs nothing comes out but s.L
Devil, what do you think of Clockwork playing Doom on point? His mix-up & rushdown game is so much better with assists helping him. Of course, you can always DHC him out for his assists.
You missed the point of what Clockwork was saying. He wants an attack string that works as a hit confirm but also still works as a blockstring even if the opponent attempts to advancing guard. c.:l: to s. does not fulfill this requirement. I agree with you though, Clockwork’s s.:h: hit confirm string isn’t very usable due to the long start-up on it.
I use c.:l:, c.:h: as a hit confirm in all my combos for the range. I got tired of missing with Doom’s other attacks. The problem is (as Clockwork points out) that it’s hard to go into dash cancel on reaction to block unless you’re expecting a block - and if you’re expecting a block, it’s hard to go into :s: on reaction to a hit.
Yeah I dont really see what’s so important about needing a hit confirm that continues to let you in even on an advance guard. Unless you have an assist even with Doom that’s not really something you can viably achieve without an assist. If you want a fool proof way to stay in even on an advance guard it pretty much requires an assist just like Magneto. Either way the s.M hits twice after the c.L allowing you a lot of time to confirm a hit or block. If you notice the opponent blocking after the first hit of the s.M that allows you time to confirm a dash in afterwards if you’re on point. You’re not going to be able to reaction dash through their advance guard or necessarily have a tool that just keeps them blocking even on the advance guard but that’s not really the point of Doom’s advance guard game the way I see it any way. I usually just start dashing forward as soon as I realize the s.M is blocked since the s.M puts them in a heavy guard stun which gives you enough time to dash right before an advance guard and pass through.
You’re not really going to be able to guess the timing on every advance guard but just like Magneto purposely dropping hit confirms to bait advance guard that’s what I’ve been doing with Doom to stay in. Pre emptively dashing in on s.M’s even if they are hit. The goal is to use the pushback from their advance guard to push them towards the corner where Doom can do his TOD bnb’s. This can also be achieved by breaking up your block strings with c.L instead of the s.M and dashing in and forward throwing them. Which even if they roll forward unless you were in the corner puts them in a good spot to land a loop that forces them into the corner and then you get TOD.
The concept is to give Doom unlimited pressure while being able to full combo off any of the hits. If a good tool came out that would allow for this, it’d be silly to not embrace it. Part of the reason Clockwork is working on being able to link Foot Dive is because even if it’s blocked, it still reaches the opponent fairly quickly allowing for more pressure. You don’t really need to time it unless the opponent push blocks both hits of your s.:h:.
It’s a good thing to explore, but the main problem I have with the specific technique that Clockwork was trying to demonstrate is the 15 frame start-up on s.:h:. If you use it to start the string, it’s obviously very vulnerable. If you use it after a foot dive, addf, I think the opponent is going to be able to jab out of it with many characters, or at least throw you.
does not fulfill this requirement. I agree with you though, Clockwork’s s.:h: hit confirm string isn’t very usable due to the long start-up on it.