lol nah, it is a terrible idea.
photon shot assist was crap in mvc2, it would be crap in this game as well.
i really don’t like doom in this game that much. he requires a healthy amount of effort for not much in return. lots of risks have to pay off for him. i think he’s good for beating the mid and low tiers, but he’ll lose to everybody else.
I dunno I think level 3 XF Doom is really slept on in potential but it’s true that you can be just as scary with on point Magneto without XF. Doom on point is decent once he can get in but without the XF he’s too easy to lame out on point especially without really good assists covering.
^What assists does doom really benefit from on point?
Are you kidding me? It took me a couple hours to master both the Buktooth and duckstrong loops, so any combo that I start 50% of the screen from the corner or closer becauses a ToD combo regardless of whether or not I have assists available. And as far as opening characters up with him, basic tri-jump mixups with some box jumping is all you need for that.
Not only that, but if you take 5 minutes to practice guard cancelling using X-factor and doing Doom Time during the freeze, you can blow people up with that too.
He’s crazy good. I can’t believe more people don’t play him. I agree with everyone about the idea of Photon Shot assist probably being terrible. It certainly wouldn’t be better than the three assists he already has.
I wouldnt say Doom is crazy good.I would say he is a good solid character that a good player can make look amazing.
The thing with Doom is though you have to actually work with him.He has good tools but none of them are very ‘herp derp’ so when people see a wolverine divekicking everywhere or Akuma just doing random tatsus they think Doom is just bad.
Doom’s air Plasma Beam is an OTG.
OTG H Air Plasma Beam xx Air Photon Array now lifts higher, allowing for more things to DHC successfully.
[media=youtube]BQqV3dg00Xc[/media]
Yeah thats why I’m learning this.
Typical low hit assist + lockdown assist pair up (beam, projectile or anti air). He benefits from an assist like Tron or Haggar that can get off people trying to rush him down because all of his defensive options are pretty much pre emptive outside of mashing on S. IMO he pretty much needs Tron or Haggar assist to fight Wesker. Wesker’s gun pretty much reduces your movement and options to walk forward and duck under gun and wait for teleport.
Uhhhh… Doom does a ton of damage with no meter. A shit ton WITH meter. His loops aren’t particularly hard either. He’s great at zoning, and if you can get comfortable with his tri-jumps and dash cancels, he’s scary. Idk what you mean by risks. It’s not like you have to guess DP or some shit.
I’ve seems that good players never let doom get his mixups in (at least wit him as anchor) not to mention pushblockin is the most annoying thing I’ve encountered playin doom. And he moves so slow that people don’t really have to react to ur mixups not to mention that his normals have no range and are slow and crazy easy to whiff punish. His best options seem to zone althought hes good at it he’s not too amazing at that cuz his startup is a tiny slow and obvious and his plasma beam doesnt go horizontal in the air like the other really good zoning chars. But I do think that doom has soom of the best damage in the game., even his most basic combos do almost more damge than my others more advanced ones.
Yeah Doom’s normals are pretty sub par. Probably the scariest normal he has is S. S has a really good hit box for beating aerial moves like dive kicks.I was practicing some shit in training mode and as long as you stay about 2 characters lengths or so away from Wolverine if he tries to dive kick and you press S you’ll beat it clean and get a launch combo(with proper timing). It will beat ground normals as long as the active frames start before the opponent’s normal starts (basically get it out first). Albeit it’s a bit slow for poking at 11 frame start up but if you need something last minute to start a combo it doesn’t hurt to do. Unlike other S moves like Wesker’s it will also counter poke low attacks.
The main issue with Doom on point overall is that unlike Magneto he just seems to have a hard time getting close enough to the opponent fast enough to start an offensive. His pokes are pretty subpar outside of S and although c.L has good range it gets counter poked easily by other crouch normals. Magneto can generally move around the screen faster and can convert things that are near impossible to see like air dash down forward L’s into combos once he gets in. Doom can’t really convert an ADDF into an attack while still in the air at close range like Magneto because his air L hits upwards. Which limits his mix up a bit. Magneto also has an air dash H that covers half the damn screen…is more or less a projectile overhead that looks like a normal and easily converts to combos also.
Magneto is also one of the infamous DHC glitch starters so if he touches you as long as he has execution he can end you with either DHC glitch into someone or if he wants to save meter and you’re almost dead he can just do magnetic tempest or shockwave. He also can build and use his own level 3 in the same combo from the start of the fight which is a luxury Doom unfortunately will never be capable of. He also has the luxury of being able to do this off of ANY throw. Doom has to land a backthrow just to get a much smaller combo for respectable damage. Magneto on the other hand can land any throw and guarantee you take a boatload of damage everytime. To top all of that off he has a 7 frame start up L beam. That’s like being able to poke with She Hulk’s c.L (also 7 frame start up) from the entire screen length. Which helps him to build momentum and get in. Doom’s beam is very durable once it gets out but the fastest one he has starts up at the same speed as his c.H. Which is why Magneto usually blows him up in the projectile war on the ground. You have to go up in the air and rain down plasma beams to stand a chance where he can’t shoot you.
Overall Doom has to get in by putting a lot of shit on the screen first. You have to get some hidden missles out there and then throw out a ground photon shot or plasma beam and have that force the opponent into block or hit stun so you can hop dash in. If you’re not forcing the opponent to block one of his spammy projectiles the chances of you getting in successfully are slim to none. Most people when they play Doom on point just kinda do nothing but hop dash in with the occasional foot dive and not even Ryu is scared of that. Ryu can just be like “meh I’m tired of that KAMEHAMEHAAAA”.Then of course there’s matchups like Wesker who wont even allow you to put projectiles on screen or air dash. Either way you gotta get something on the screen in every matchup or you just wont be a threat. That’s why every one of his special moves are some spammy projectile. You have to use them to lead up to your offense.
This is all mainly why I put Doom in the back. It’s just…he’s only really actually scary IMO in the back. You never see a Dr.Doom without XF on point and go “oh man Doom is out there shit’s gonna go down”. Hopefully in a year maybe but it aint looking good right now. He’s good for the lame out and meter build on point but without XF and DHC glitch still in the game there’s just a lot of reasons to do Magneto on point instead. The thing is if you have Doom in the back then he becomes 30 percent faster which allows you to spam all of his projectile shit more giving you more time to get in. It’s like you have self made assists helping you get in. Plasma beam does like the same damage as Maximum Wesker on hit and about the same chip on block. Doom’s ability to get around advance guard once he gets in by dashing after his normals gets a lot stronger when you’re 30 percent faster. That’s one of the nice things about Doom at least. It’s a bit more work to get in but once you get in you can just keep dashing in and there’s not much they can do other than jump and block and hope they tech throws because the more they keep advance guarding the longer they set themselves up for stuff if you’re constantly dashing in. When he’s in XF3 his sphere flame does about 700k damage which is ridiculous for a level 1 super even in XF. This allows you to easily just grab someone up with a back throw or basic combo and end them quickly.
The one other strong aspect of Doom is that all of his supers have the same start up as like…normals. Both air and ground photon array have have 10 frame start up which is like the same speed as his s.M. Meaning you can easily use these to get some space from you. His ground photon array gives leaves him at plus 2 on block or plus 4 on hit meaning it’s nice to throw out against dumb mix ups like Wesker teleports or Wolverine Berserker Slash to get some damage and buy some time for an offense later. Sphere Flame starts up even quicker at 8 frame start up and is a great anti air against obvious air moves. If the opponent empty jump blocks in you’re in a bit of trouble because they can easily throw or command throw you out of the rain follow up but if you know someone’s pressing buttons you can throw it out. It’s not bad to use after throwing out a plasma beam to cover your vertical space also. Doom Time of course is like 4 frame start up which is hella quick. The nice thing about these supers altogether is that their start up frames happen before the freeze. It only takes one frame or in Doom Time’s case 0 frames for the super to be active after the freeze so to your opponent the supers will feel like one frame start up even though technically they’re a bit longer.
Ton of damage without meter? please inform me, cause i’ve only seen/done 500-600K no meter damage combos, and thats certainly not big damage.
It’s big damage to characters whose stamina is about 800K-900K (i.e. Amateratsu, Akuma, Zero).
Even the MvC3 guide said that you need to focus on your projectiles first to ensure that you have a chance of getting in.
not to harp, but thats the point i’m making. 500-600k isn’t big damage b/c it isn’t big damage across the board. 1mil+ is.
500 to 600 damage for no meter is relatively high in this game I don’t remember seein many other chars capable of this. And ya doom in x-factor seems to be the only time people get afraid of him. And when ur pushblocked twice I don’t see any way to continue pressure since we only have one airdash, aren’t we done after that? And not only do I get push block but I get grabbed a hell of a lot because people know that I basically have to come in through the air, and trying to tech grabs or going for throws myself seems a lot more riskier than most other people considering doom will either shot the laser or foot dive. And his projectiles still don’t seem great versus other chars with projectiles (especially taskmaster and mag). And even tho his photon array super covers almost the full screen it really doesn’t seem like it effects beam chars at all. So I fell like wit doom we could only zone chars w/o a decent projectile.
If I catch you from about 50% of the arena away from the corner or closer, my BnB does ~700k (pre-Hyper). If I have an assist left, it’s going to be close to 730k before Hyper. That is some ridiculous damage without meter, especially when you can use 1 meter and bumped the damage up to 900+k or use a level 3 for around 1.15 mil.
The way you continue pressure is by air dashing down and forward when blocked, once you land, you can do c.:l:, c.
, c:h:; and if you think they’re going to pushblock, cancel an attack into a ground dash, cancel that into a jump, and then either go for an air attack (a quick overhead is worth the risk of losing pressure) or tri-jump back down for another c.:l:.
The theoretical idea of unlimited pressure is nice to think about, but it’s not very realistic because it’s impossible to indefinitely predict the opponent’s advancing guard. You do have tools to get several overhead and low mix-ups while negating a pushblock or two though.
The rest of this post, and the many posts like it, sound similar to some of the discussions that took place in the main Dormammu thread. People think that just because Doom and Dormammu have a multiple zoning abilities, that they are zoning characters, but this is not accurate. You just have to mix up using your tri-jumps and box-jumps. Empty tri/box-jumps can mix up people pretty effectively. I only footdive to keep pressure up - not to land blows.
As far as people not being afraid of Doom, this is temporary. There are still enough players that use him for just his assists and don’t know how to play him properly. Since non-Doom aren’t familiar with his tricks, they don’t realize how dangerous he is. For example, people still walk right into X-factor, Doom Time punishes. Once people learn about his tech, you won’t even need to use your level 3 to have it be a big factor in a game.
So iam not to knowledgeble about pushblocking will they stay in blockstun if they pushblock c.h and I dash out of it and if ithey pushblock c.m instead and I cancel out of that will they be in same amount of blockstun?
I don’t have the book in front of me, but I’d be very surprised if there is less guardstun on c. than on c.:h:. There should still be enough to keep the pressure up though. The main problem is that if you use c.:h: and they push block the c., your c.:h: will whiff and you won’t be able to dash cancel it.
Yeah because you can do 1mil+ damage without meter.