Wheel kick only works when the Lariat is whiffed, not on block. Normal COD tends to get hit out, EX does work. cr.mk doesn’t have much range and tends to whiff. Ultra works, yes.
stop trying to hit gief AS hes lariating maybe? you know its NOT instant recovery and he has a decent number of frames to recover from right?
A bigger bulge.
I’m getting hit because the properties of the move are the most retarted they have ever been in a SF game. That’s why I’m picking Sagat against Gief now.
I want to know who you were using before
Infact, i wouldn’t mind if everyone who thinks the move should get nerfed mentions who they use. Just a little bit mysterious that the move is so blatantly overpowered and yet no trace of the gief army is found, and we can’t seem to find much evidence even from anecdote that holds up
Lariat just doesn’t need to be that powerful. It doesn’t make him top tier but it gives him more situations to run lariat than to actually use his normals. Just like how trade to Ultra or shoryu FADC Ultra gives Ryu more reasons to run shoryu than to actually use his normals. It just dumbs the competitive nature of the game down more than it should. Less thinking and more reward for spamming.
I was using C.Viper before and Gief’s lariat just beats too many things of hers. Especially when it comes to air burn kicks. Every active frame of lariat should not beat every active frame of a burn kick. It just makes no sense. If El Fuerte can splash on Gief for free why can’t Viper burn kick his lariat? I mean it’s obviously due to hit boxes but dayum. That kills like half of any way Viper could mount anything close to an offensive on Gief. If she gets knocked down guess 50/50 SPD and lariat mix ups will kill her for free. She doesn’t have the health to play those kinds of lame wake up games with Gief. You have to play super on point and Gief’s crazy priority and mix ups with lariat in that match just kill most of her offensive gameplan. You have to run and throw seismos like a scared child and if Gief gets in you pretty much have to pray. You would have had to pray if it was ST too but at least there would have been a bit more thought into how he killed you. In SFIV you are just going to die if the Gief player has half a brain.
It’s not even that the match is that bad. I personally think Gief definitely wins it due to Viper insta dying after getting knocked down but the issue is more so the fact that there is little reason to think once Gief closes in on you. Even before a knockdown. In ST if you had a gameplan once Gief closed in you could get out. Use a reversal timing attack against his tick SPD setups, try to beat out his far less ranged and invincble lariat and well…think.
Oh yeah I forgot you could also actually do damage to Gief in ST. I mean it’s just because of the way SF is designed these days that Gief is going to have a truck load of health but it just allows the Zangief player to make mistakes all day. It doesn’t make the Zangief player think any harder or reward him any better for getting in. He just gets a natural reward for looking big and muscely and it gives you less reason to block and avoid attacks properly. Then for people who then hone their skills and get acquire great defensive play…it just makes them unnecessarily strong. The reward C.Viper gets for catching a mistake against a Gief with a solid defensive game is like ZERO. You have to work on chipping him from a range and poking him with small combos for days and do all of this smart shit and then Gief finds two openings and wins. I liked ST Gief since he was big and powerful but could also die to a few mistakes just like anyone else. It was up to the player to make him scary and not the game allowing him to make tons of mistakes and still come out on top. In SFIV Gief can almost just walk forward at stuff and take damage as long as he eventually hits the person or knocks them down.
If I gotta smack Gief around for days and look for opening after opening to finally win a match with him…I might as well do it with a character that can make more than 2 mistakes against him themselves. Hence Sagat. He’s basically my hold off until Capcom realizes what they did with Gief.
**Lariat just doesn’t need to be that powerful. **
The only thing that’s just…absolutely out of control ridiculous, is the chip damage it does. I just check and for the punch version it does 30 damage on 1st hit and 35 on the second hit…holy MF!!! So yea, they should get rid of that, but eveything else is fine because most of the cast can just punish buddy if he depends on it alot (unlike ryu) and it’s got a great number of weaknesses unlike SRK.
Like i said before, any charcter that really didn’t have any options against this move is surely getting a buff in the next version, so why we would change anything besides the chip damage is beyond me.
Yea i’m all against people getting a free ride because of stupid advantages, but gief just isn’t one of those players unless it’s at a really low level where someone doesn’t even know the properties of their own moves.
I hear you about the one knockdown thing because guile is the easiest guy to cross up in the game, it’s at the level where it’s an exploit, and viper does more damage than guile although not against gief. I have to play pretty much flawlessly to win the round, my most consistant combi is jab 4 times, then a pause incase he tried a piledriver, then a punish with flashkick.
He can make mistakes for a LOOOONG time and not die, bu i still don’t think that’s overpowered because everytime i’m on my way to a perfect i sorta feel sorry for the gief player. Why? Because he has to sit there and get hit constantly with moves that barely damage him, and unless i make a mistake he pretty much can’t fight back, that must be insanely aggravating and that’s why i’ll never play gief.
Then, because guile is one of the worst charcters, i’ll get a buff and then he’ll REALLY be screwed if lariat gets a nerf. As it is right now it’s a coin toss: If i dont make a mistake it’s a possible perfect and one frustrated player, if i get knocked down then i’ll probably lose because flashkick auto-corrects unreliably and it has more recovery than most ultras
^^^ agreed. Chip damage is crazy no doubt. But how many fireballs does Gief have to block and take chip?? Add them up in a game and compare that to the amount gief gets to chip his opponent?? Think about it a little bit there. How often does Gief gets to get IN close on his opponent. . . .??? Say Seth vs Gief/ Sagat?/ Sim?/ Blanka?/Ryu? and how many of the other characters does Gief get to face online??
So i’d say leave his big ass be. But if it gets tweaked then so be it. I don’t think they’ll do too much to him anyway.
Yeah, and facing Guile is another one of those matches I hate. Guile has more throws than Gief too! lolz. I’m not that bad of a Gief player really. But one sonic boom to two to three and i’m absorbing blocking absorbing while approaching. Then he lets loose with the ex boom and I’d take the chip then there is the mix up of lp boom vs hp boom and I get hit with it for jumping. Even getting in on Guile isn’t always a sure win. Good guiles know how to get out too. Is it frustrating?? yeah, but I learn from it and change my ways of fighting. Also to add to this: Guile isn’t the only character he has to deal with that kind of style of fighting. Let me see . . . Ryus, Kens, Sagats, Blankas, oh yeah and almost all the projectile throwing characters. and yeah poke and run is pretty much the only tactic everyone uses against Gief. So I’m assuming that people just loses to lariats because once he gets in they don’t know what to do!! How about block? poke, block and run?? Wouldn’t that work? Gee I’ve seen that happened to me all the time.
But really, I agree with you in that it’s a big coin toss. Too bad Guile is one of the bad characters to use. I liked Guile a lot in the previous versions. Just didn’t like him here so I stopped using him. Perhaps after the buff i might start using him too?
Yea, read the rest of the edited post about why i don’t think he should change, even though there are lots of typos so i’ll need to edit it again
Have you idiots defending lariat ever considered how good it would STILL be if the damage was toned down, it didn’t hit crouching, and it had more frames of vulnerability?
It’s one damn move. It doesn’t deserve to be so strong
And you play as…?
gasp i cant believe i have to change my game plan when i play against gief! what kind of shitty series is this? its not like before you had to change the way you played or something! so nuts! ono fix this please! we want all matchups to be similar please! let me use by BK mixups on EVERYONE and not have to turtle against anyone!!
different character. stop trying to mount some giant fucking offense on gief. hes the best up close. no doubt about it. stop getting close. turtle and poke him to death. this has been around since like what WW?
Excellent point Captain 2009
Yea, make sure you don’t let us know who you play as and why it needs nerfing compared to SRK. Good thing you didn’t register in 2009, asking for nerfs needlessly wasn’t considered scrubby in 04.
Reasons?
There are 7 pages of reasons, and my first post, which you responded to like a nine year old.
Every one of your posts makes no sense, which is why you have negative rep.
How many of them are valid? It’s either guys claiming it needs a nerf because it has too many advantages, then you bring up SRK and somehow noone thinks that should change(ryu army)
And then someone brings up the fact that x character has no defense, and most of the time the guy is either completely wrong or they mention a characterthat’s going to be buffed anyways.
If rep and registration dates are your only arguments, i guess you’d better hurry up and buy premium if you want to win the argument.
:wow:
:sleep:
hmm… I believe 9272 has a valid point. Really, how many people agree with nerfing SRK? I tell ya majority and I do feel that majority of the players are Ryu players. He’s practically the ONLY character I usually face online. Even in G1!! G2?? I’ve had many Ryu/Ryu/Ryu/Sagat. Or Sagat/Ryu/Ryu/Sagat. or . . . you get my point.
lariat shouldn’t hit crouch. make green hand better. still gets punish if it’s not EX even on hit. air throw.
Just you wait until Hawk gets his fight on . . . and we’ll have a whole new line of people bitching about how his moves are too powerful blah blah blah blah . . . i have foreseen!! lolz