Some additional info on our lovely new super that I quite simply can’t wrap my head around: Jagga kicks Akuma standing HK are both -2, neither of which our Super can punish(I intiially assumed hitboxes or altered data)
However, Chun says eff those punks and can super the lot of them. I checked if maybe Chun was now 1f or something, but thanks to Viper MP TK which is -1 and the help of Zangief I know it is still -1 and chun can’t touch it. Even with Akuma breathing in Goukens face after the HK he can block. These are 2 very big shames as it would be delicious if our super could punish them on block and I think I’m gonna tweet ono a special thank you for the 2f super, but puzzeld query why we cant and chun can :S
EDIT:
Btw to clarify on Jagga kicks, frame data wise we should be able to punish them even on hit, but we can only hit LK when done close, MK Never and HK always as far as I can see.
My mini bible as it tends to be the most reliable(though not perfect, errors are present, I’ve been thinking of applying for author and getting some correcting here and there) http://wiki.shoryuken.com/Super_Street_Fighter_IV_AE
Chuns super is always 2f, I’ve seen that 1f notation a lot though.
Ryu and Dudley have 3f, Ken, Chun and Gouken have 2 framers.(chun has best reach but is charge, we have better reach than ken, but ken CAN punish Adon and Akuma more reliably, I am confused )
I have been punishing a LOT of -2 stuff and it has been comboing into +2 normals. Do you have examples of stuff dudley can hit that is -2? It might help me be able to think on the matter.
Hmm been awhile I’ll go browse see what was up again. The only one I directly recall is calling Chuns super 1f, cause as far as I have been able to tell it’s just a 2f.
However I do not have frame recording data nor am I 100% knowledgable, I just see discrepancies and wonder why. Like Balrogs silly Jab to ultra, which was explained to me as a certain glitch cuasing him to bypass frame data.
Any -2 move in which Gouken can punish with his Super Dudley can as well, as long as it is in range. A certain example is LP MGB.
EDIT: Gouken can punish Adon’s EX Jaguar Kick as long as he blocks both hits. You cannot punish MK and HK version because on most grounded opponents they hit meaty, making them essentially -1 or possibly even on block.
EDIT2: It looks like you cannot punish NORMALS that are -2 on block/hit
It’s not a glitch re balrog jab to ultra. He hits on the later frames due to the way the player recoils allowing him to hit meaty in the middle of a combo thus increasing his frame advantage on hit to allow the Ultra. Same way Abel used to be able to infinite chun.
Actually dudley can do very few of those I tested. L MGB and Kens step kick from close by have beent he only ones and actually give me the theory that dudley probably also as a 2f super, but his 1st active frame hitbox is awful as it’s rare to see him connect low and usually does so when his arm is midheight(probably the 2nd active frame)
Adons is obvious due to his first active being incredibly high, but weird that chun has such an easier time with it. Pity I can’t test if she can do it on hit, I’m terrible with charge characters.
Kens step MK
Goukens crouch MK
Abel close MP
Adon crouch MK
Adon overhead
Then I got to akuma. His close and crouch MK are both -2. Can’t punish either of them, Chun and Ken can, dudley has reach issues again. I stopped moving down the list at this point. Either capcom did massive frame changes to most -2s and making them -3(and making all of ryus srks and his super 4f or something) or there is something weird going. Or damn it all, Gouken just refuses to punish his brother because he believes theres some good left in him, dammit all Gouken, you saint of a brother.
It is actually, meaty far jab is +9 at best and his Kick Ultra is 10f. The glitch as explained to me there is a way of starting with punch ultra but immediatly transitioning it to the kick one(like a kara? I really dont know) that takes off yet another frame making this combo possible. Or the frame data is wrong and I’ve been trolled. It’s not that I don’t believe I might have been, but in that case data is wrong or I REALLY do not understand it as well as I think I do
It’s weird for Chun’s Super as well (actually, it’s weird for ALL supers in the game), because as you stated she cannot punish MP TK on block, but she can punish Guy’s LP Shoulder on block, which should be -1, but only with her MK version.
Dudley cannot punish Gen’s crane st.HK on hit (which is -2 on hit). Also, it was like this since AE.
You still cannot safe jump SRKs, I can disconfirm his SRK changed to 4f.
Ken can punish Guy’s LP Shoulder on block with his LP version; cannot punish with others since he is out of range. He cannot punish MP TK on block with any version.
With dudley you need to also keep an eye on where his arm hits, if he connects low thats when he is punishing 2f moves, but getting blocked mid is when he fails to do so and I really think its because of hitboxes.
It seems when you try to punish with something that is NOT Super, the game follows the frame data. When you try to punish something with Super though, you can punish certain moves that are supposed to be 1f away from getting punished.
I think it’ll be really great if we can compile this kind of move.
You can punish some move faster because of the reversal window. Reversal does not only armor break, but also shorten the time it take for the hit to become active by skipping the vulnerable frame. It is different on each super so that is why some super seem to come out faster while some does not on reversal.
That’s the thing though, I can punish virtually everything I have tried it on(and link it after +2 situations) and everything that didnt work was mostly spacing/active frames, with the only mystery being Akuma. I do not get why it doesn’t work against him.
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