sweet. hopefully we get some hitbox info like they did with those characters
I don’t remember this being mentioned anywhere… and it’s not super useful but…
If you anti air with EX rekka (Like from a distance/ to hit someone who jumps back in the corner) you can juggle afterwards into either RH flame kick, or ultra. So far I have only been able to get 2 hits of the ultra to connect, for a total of 160 damage.
The main question is, is the EX rekka anti air actually a good idea in any situation? I find there are ranges where it can work (ie from far), but I’m not sure if it’s ever the best option. Needs more testing.
Counter Hit cl.strong into cl.fierce
I was going to do another video, but Slizzle reminded me of this himself and I don’t have a lot of time at the moment. So, here’s more new(?) combos.
Against crouching characters:
CH cl.strong > walk up > cl.fierce xx whatever
Doesn’t work on:
Guile
Blanka
Chun Li
Zangief
Abel
Rufus
Sagat
Balrog
Fei Long
Gouken
T.Hawk
Gen
Rose
Hakan
Works on everyone else with varying degrees of difficulty and must be from point-blank. Works easiest on Akuma, Seth and Bison (easy enough for me to say that you could probably land another cl.strong). Most difficult to do it on are Dudley and Cammy. I reckon you have between one and three frames to execute the cl.fierce, depending on the character.
So, you would get:
CH cl.strong > cl.fierce xx MK Flame Kick FADC HK Chickenwing - about 400 damage. Comboing into Flame Kick doesn’t work on everyone though. As a rough guide, if you EX Tenshin a character and do cl.fierce xx Flame Kick and the Flame Kick whiffs against that character, then this will also (Viper and Fuerte come to mind).
Worth the risk, in my opinion. Works a lot like the old meaty cl.fierce > walk up > cl.fierce in ST.
It’s practical because you’d use the cl.strong against crouch tech in a lot of situations.
Okay, so after flicking through the old Vega matchup thread, and because there’s no new thread for Vega yet, I figure I’ll just drop this here. Though it turns out it’s old knowledge from Vanilla, somebody is likely to find it useful.
So option selecting a meaty cr.LK with Ultra 1 works, with good timing, on the backdashes from the likes of Chun, Rose, Makoto etc. Vega being no exception to this, except for that he has his KKK and PPP backflips (which is why I’m bothering to point this out lol). Option selecting the Ultra has the following effects:
Against back dash
Full Ultra 1
Against KKK single backflip
2nd hit of ultra lands and goes straight into animation.
Against PPP double backflip
4th hit of ultra lands and goes straight into animation for like 435 damage, plus the damage from the knockdown.
Everything else
The cr.LK stuffs everything but Ultra 2. Everything. Really.
Essentially, using this means Vega can only block, or wake up Ultra 2, which is pretty nifty IMO.
And of course, if you do stuff something or they don’t block appropriately you’ve done cr.LK, st.LP and can combo regardless, provided that you’re ready for it.
[NOTE] - Do not use near the corner. Only use mid screen where you’ll land the ultra before you touch the wall. If you do touch the wall before you land the ultra, you go through his backflips and Vega will end up behind you with time to punish and you’ll likely end up in his vortex.
Other than that, if the timing is right it’s really good for back dash/backflip happy Vegas.
Old, mate. Good though.
How to counter Cody’s unblockable.
[media=youtube]FWczn0iavI8&feature=feedu[/media]
and the original setup, by Packz:
[media=youtube]ZhWSvJ9vOr8[/media]
Dangit. Ahh well, I assumed you would probably know anyway lol. I could probably try out a hundred things with Fei and you’d already know more than 95 of them with the amount of work you put in :china: Ahh well, back to the drawing board.
As for that unblockable, I’m assuming it’s like the others where you’ve only got a single frame to block the correct direction, it looks like the setup for it would be as hard to get right in the first place as it would be to block it, making it a bit rare, or is there leniency for its execution? Regardless, good work with the escape.
If the timing isn’t right, then it’s still an ambiguous crossup that is safe from Fei Long’s reversals. If you’re a Cody player, it’s worth going for either way, and is very hard to escape from if you OS from it.
If you piano all three kick buttons on wakeup, you will get out of it every time as all three crouching kick attacks make the jump-in whiff.
Played Fei Long in AE today.
The jab into sweep is a massive buff, as is the EX Rekka being super safe.
Neville how would you OS backdashes after meaty cr.mp as its not chain cancelable?
That’d be because the cr.MP would recover quicker if it missed, so the move option selected with it would come out. Though I’ve never used it myself so I may be way off :wonder:
Yeah, that’s correct. You can use whatever you want to OS with; cr.fierce, Rekka, CW, Super, Ultra, even sweep.
St.short hitbox seems different. Less range it seemed, not sure if the frame data is any different for it to compensate.
Again, jab into sweep is ridiculously good.
Sweep> Meaty setup
What it is: A perfect meaty which requires no “eye-balling” or strict manual timing.
What it beats: Any invincible reversals 12 frames or slower, all non-hit invincible grabs, all normals.
How to set it up:
Super:
[list][*]Sweep> f+MK (mashable)> cr.LK (mashable)> (subsequent block/OS is optional, but preferred)
[*]Sweep> HP Rekka (Timed after sweep frames end)> cr.LK
[*]cl.MP> Sweep> etc. etc.[/list]
AE:
[list][*]cr.LK, st.LP> Sweep> f+MK> cr.LK
[*]cr.LK, st.LP> Sweep> HP Rekka> cr.LK[/list]
Why it is useful: Sweeps can give nice ambiguous jumps on certain characters, though the timing and spacing can be awkward and the jump-in is likely not to be a safe-jump. There is no reliable move that can be whiffed to provide the correct timing to make a jump-in ambiguous. This is also a telegraphed approach, giving the opponent some time/incentive to act against your jump move.
This meaty set-up counter-hits a number of reversals as well due to their lack of lower-body invincibility. To name a few:
- Zangief’s Spinning Lariat
- Gief’s non-EX SPDs
- Balrog’s wake-up headbutts
This gives, for some characters/match-ups, a way to pressure safely and more importantly, consistently. There is no need to try to time the move, or leave an opening to lose a favorable corner-positioning. The meaty will also allow you to combo into the BnB on hit (may be spacing dependent on the sweep).
Being a meaty, the move is capable of hitting your opponent when he is initially forced to stand (cannot crouch, but can still crouch block). This means that counter-hits will occur with the opponent standing, giving you the hassle-free ability to do the standing BnB at will rather than doing the crouching variant. Try this with Balrog and the HP Rekka set-up–mash out cr.LP with him on wake-up and see if you can get him to be counter-hit while crouching. I’ve tried a few times and he keeps getting hit while standing (though he can still crouch block successfully if he chooses to)
Thoughts, opinions? Give it a try I say. It definitely has its uses vs Balrog for one, whom meaty sweeps will also work on to beat Headbutts, giving you a nice meaty loop and safe pressure scenario. Gief also seems to be helpless against this when he doesn’t have meter–this can completely confuse him when he finds his wake-up SPDs just won’t come out when they look like they should. The potential to OS also gives you a nice bonus vs. Back-dash happy types.
[edit] Of course, let’s not forget to take into account the differences in certain characters’ wake-up timings. So far I’ve tested on Rose, Balrog, Zangief, and Ryu. They all seem to work fine. Adon will, of course, be a problem.
Flame Kick > Forward Dash > EX Tenshin
A more simple find, this needs no real justification for learning. Just another meaty Tenshin set-up to use when the opponent quick rises from a Flame Kick, but one that loses to command grabs unfortunately:
[mid-screen] Flame Kick (LK/MK/HK) > Forward dash (spammable) > EX Tenshin
[corner] Flame Kick > Forward dash > Tenshin/EX Tenshin
[corner] cl.HP xx Flame Kick > Forward dash > Tenshin/EX Tenshin
This beats non-reversal 3-frame jabs–even the craziest mashing/double-tapping won’t allow a hit to slip through (though Turbo makes it possible/easy). Unfortunately, 2/3 frame command grabs such as Zangief’s SPD or Hakan’s (oiled) Oil Rocket win consistently when used on reversal. Just to break it down:
WHY YOU’LL USE IT:
[LIST]
[]It beats basically all crouch tech mashing/normal attacking and blocking. When considering human habits and limitations (we’re excluding Turbo users here).
[]It can be done in the corner from a cl.HP xx Flame Kick punish (or combo’d from a HK CW combo while there).
[]In the corner, it takes no meter.
[]From any range/positioning, if the opponent doesn’t quick rise, you are SAFE since you recover before they do.
[]It’s a common way to land Tenshin and a potential round/game ender that will make your opponent afraid to quick-rise/block/crouch tech.
[/LIST]
RISKS:
[LIST]
[]Opponent backdashes and you’re left a -30 or something ridiculous like that; very punishable.
[]Opponent is Chun-Li (or equivalent), neutral jumps and lands with a lengthy nj.HK (only long range neutrals can do this).
[]Opponent does an invincible move or has a quick command grab to beat this.
[]vs. Regular Tenshin in particular, the opponent does a spammed wake-up normal grab or frantically double-taps a 3-frame normal to slip through, and wins (but c’mon, who does that??).
[]Opponent is hit with Flame Kick while airborne, causing variation in his/her wake-up timing. This will lead Tenshin to whiff for a very big punish.
[/LIST]
As you can see, the risks are obvious, but the rewards are potentially great. Imagine doing a 300-400 damage punish in the corner ending with Flame Kick (any version except for EX), and then doing this set-up for another 300-400 more. That’s an asshole way to win a round. Perfect for every Fei player IMO :tup:
[edit] THIS NEEDS TO BE TESTED ON THE ROSTER. Different wake-up timings alter results on a per-character basis. This research is incomplete (though the tech is highly functional)
LAB SPEAK (ignore if you just want to use this shit)
It’s strange to note that though there are 4-frame differences for each level of Fei’s Flame Kick recovery, the amount of time that the opponent spends airborne seems to compensate for that. Consequently, each level of Flame Kick used produces the same trap, one that can beat 3-frame normals but will lose to 2/3 frame grabs. Through testing, I found that the regular version of Tenshin creates a 5-frame gap at worst on wake-up, though this depends on when the opponent mashes quick-rise (which can be varied as I read elsewhere on SRK). In the case of a character like Rose, whose grab range is massive enough to catch Fei at Tenshin range, results were nearly 50-50 with both mashing and timing the grab (this is not the case with punishing a LK CW with grab, something that is easy to do though it also leaves Fei at -4).
By way of frame calculations, that suggests that EX Tenshin allows the opponent a 3-frame gap since it is 2-frames faster than Regular Tenshin. This means most reversal grabs will always win, and 3-frame normals may slip through depending on human error (apart from obvious invincible moves, etc.). This is, of course, from a reversal-timed quick rise AND a reversal timed grab/jab. For SPD users, this should be easy to pull off, so just avoid using this set-up against them.
Unfortunately, this cannot be used as an early anti-air set-up since hitting an airborne opponent that is somewhat high up changes the wake-up timing on their quick-rise as well. You actually gain too much frame advantage from this and must manually time a meaty instead. From mid-screen, an anti-air Flame Kick will also launch the opponent more diagonally; this results in Fei’s dash/Tenshin being too short to reach the target. If the opponent is airborne but low to the ground or mid-height (roughly where you would be able to capitalize on the I-frames of the Flame Kick), however, you should still get the same set-up.
I tested this manually on Rose, Sakura, Chun, Ryu, Fei, and Zangief thus far, each character having a different jab range and slightly different quick-get-up timing. If the set-up was done without the Tenshin, the grab/jab would normally hit. When I finished with Tenshin, I always got the grab/jab, unless I was really frantically mashing/double-tapping. With EX Tenshin, nothing slipped through.
When Turbo is applied, 3-frame grabs and jabs do slip through consistently, however, revealing a 3-frame gap at minimum. But tested against Guile’s 4-frame cr.LK, even Turbo wasn’t consistent in allowing cr.LK to slip through; this suggests that the EX Tenshin likely goes active on the 4th frame after the opponent wakes up, though again, that depends on WHEN the opponent wakes up. Turbo showed inconsistencies vs. the Regular Tenshin as well. Using Guile’s cr.LK as a benchmark, I was able to get about 50-60% of the cr.LK attempts to work despite there being a 5-frame gap (where Tenshin goes active on the 6th frame); 3-frame jabs were consistent with Turbo though.
The corner set-ups are just as they sound: corner only. While the cl.HP xx Flame Kick set-up works on some characters in certain instances from mid-screen, it is only consistent in the corner. Consequently, if you land a HK CW combo and finish with cl.HP xx Flame Kick, DO THIS SET-UP. You get the Tenshin unless they mash out with an invincible move or attempt a (suicidal) jump. Thankfully, the quick-rise timing is pretty fast so there’s little time to see this coming. If they don’t quick-rise, you’re safe since the Tenshin recovers before they get up. This reset nets a ton of stun and can dizzy anyone with 1050+ stun if you start with a st.MP xx HK CW combo. Start with a lv2 Focus and this racks up 1105 total.
Another Meaty cr.Lk
This one is easy to get:
Flame Kick xx FADC > HK CW (3 hits) ~ f+HK (spammable) ~ cr.LK
After the f+HK, your opponent is at roughly -1 (if done perfectly). This lets the cr.LK beat any jab or 3-frame throw attempt for a counter-hit. If the opponent tries to crouch tech with :db:+:lp::lk:, they are forced into a block instead of getting a tech.
Unlike my other meaty set-up from a forward throw, this doesn’t let you beat 12-frame reversals since it’s a tad slow.
I tested this strictly using Turbo when controlling the opponent. 90% of the time this afforded me the counter-hit, with the other 10% likely due to some human error in the set-up (the height of the HK CW, the timing of the f+HK, or the timing of the cr.LK). If the opponent delays quick-rise by an additional frame or two, you simply get more frame advantage which works in your favor.
Pretty easy set-up and it’s fairly common given the number of times we land this combo on the opponent. Hope you guys will use it 
this may or may not be old, but i just found out that fei can get a psuedo safe jump on shotos from his back throw using jump fierce. youre gonna have to eyeball it since i dont have any video capturing equipment, but basically you back throw, take a step back, then jump foward with fierce.
you want to jump so that when fei sticks his hands out, his waist is near their head on his downward arc.
the attack never switches sides, so all reversal and late front side dps whiff.
opponents options are back dash, crouch vs your jump in, and non reversal cross cutter DP
works simialar to the corner jump mp vs shotos, except this works mid screen
St.Jab OS Rekka against Adon
If you land full Rekkas on Adon, perform a forward dash and do:
st.jab ~ Rekkaken (any version, preferably fierce)
If he wakes up with st.roundhouse (which, from the range you’re at after the forward dash, isn’t a bad idea for the Adon player to throw out), the st.jab stuffs the st.roundhouse and the Rekka comes out. Guaranteed to be in the corner afterwards. It’s safe from other wake up options Adon has.
To avoid negative edge on the fierce Rekka you OS with, just hold down fierce instead of letting go. You can use jab Rekka and it will still combo, though.
Has anyone tried using negative-edge on u2. I was trying it and got it inconsistently. It seems like you get more time to react using negative-edge but i can’t get the timing down.
For what purpose?
Viper specific OS:
[media=youtube]N3NL_NpJoCA[/media]
Very nice Moons, with the timing your using on the first one though, is it possible to Viper to poke you with something quick and lead into a combo?