Does this mean it can beat ryu’s non-ex shoryuken(4 frames invincibility) or at least trade with it?
how to set it up?
Do I understand? If I want to set it up I need to do cr.HK then immediately do f+MK then immediately cr.LK ?
Thanks.
No, it’s only for moves that are 12 frames and slower (Balrog’s headbutt, Bison’s EX PC/EX Scissor, Rose’s EX Spiral, etc.). Says it right there :razzy:
What it means, “12 frames”? Total frames, startup, active, or recovery. Sorry, but I don’t understand.
Always start-up frames. When someone mentions how a move is “a 3-frame jab” or a “5-frame low forward,” that only refers to how fast it starts up. Total frames don’t really tell you anything on their own, and people usually mention active and recovery frames specifically (“the move has 5 active frames–thats a shit ton” or “the recovery on it is so bad, it’s like 40 frames”).
Okay, thanks for explanation.
So Ryu’s DP is 3 frame invincible reversal, and setup doesn’t stuff it, therefore assertion is wrong? Am I missed something?
Yeah that’s right, Ryu’s DP will beat that setup, but the setup itself is only intended for a few characters.
thx for an answer.
I see where the confusion kicks in. I only tested this on Ryu to be sure that it would work against his wake-up timing. If used against Ryu, it will lose to DP every time, but it’ll at least beat any mashed throws/techs and will let you option select if he decides to backdash on wake-up instead.
Fei Long c.lk OS U1 on Yun’s LK DP
so confirmed that crouching normals makes yuns dp whiff?
It’s been known that crouching beats Yun LK DP. The problem is that you can’t crouch Yun’s HK/EX DPs. You just have to make that guess.
Dang, i made a vid testing only lk. Gonna try U2. Anyway here is the vid:
I went ahead and tested this:
U1: fails on hk/ex version (as stated above), mk gets tagged by the meaty short
U2: works on lk, fails on hk/ex, mk gets tagged by the meaty short
Vs. Evil Ryu’s cr.MK xx Stomp pressure strings, you can reversal LK/MK CW for a 1-hit side-switch. The CW flies pretty far out of range behind ER and is not punishable by sweep, fireball, SRK or Ultra since the hitstun lasts long enough for Fei to get out of harm’s way. It’s only 30 damage and doesn’t lead to much else but it can get you out of chip and could be useful for other situations where you need to move into better positioning etc.
MK CW flies further behind ER, but if ER doesn’t do a Stomp, it’ll whiff for a punishment. LK works to cause blockstun from the front if there is no Stomp cancel, but just keep in mind that you’re at -4 on block, and you won’t punish the cr.MK. Normally if ER cancels into Fireball, it’s a true blockstring and no CW will come out. If ER cancels into a red fireball it’ll hit both LK and MK CW out of the air for a knockdown or possible juggle (if in the corner).
If you do EX CW, Fei flies further out, avoids any fireballs and possibly intercepts them, while avoiding the Stomp altogether (no hit). This is sweep punishable if ER doesn’t cancel into anything though, so it’s definitely a gamble. LK CW seems to be the best option for this side-switching business, though it’s riskiest since it can be DP’d on block.
When watching the videos, please note that the annotations explain other things not in this post.
VS. Fei Long Setups
[media=youtube]QCn9V9Oox8U[/media]
There are one or two things to counter this. You can delay the Flame Kick instead of reversal-timing it, but if you delay it too much, the j.fierce then becomes safe and the attacking Fei can then punish the recovery. Delayed lows also work, but carry an element of risk.
VS. Yun Setups
[media=youtube]7IPdOKxFa1s[/media]
Yun can forward dash out of the second setup (an unblockable) or do a crouching short/forward, as the j.strong isn’t meaty. It’s not something you’d want to risk because all Fei has to do is use j.short and he gets his combo that way instead.
AE 2012 Combo Damage Changes
Damage values for Flame Kick combos in AE 2012. Due to conflicting information regarding damage nerf of either MK Rekkukyaku (chickenwing) or HK Rekkukyaku, I’m listing both possible outcomes where applicable. Stun values not listed because, as far as we know, they have not been adjusted.
HK CW nerf = BLACK
MK CW nerf = ITALIC
J.Roundhouse/Fierce > Cl.Fierce > HK Shienkyaku
[INDENT=1]AE = 328 dmg[/INDENT]
[INDENT=1]AE 2012 = 320 dmg[/INDENT]
J.Roundhouse/Fierce > Cl.Fierce > EX Shienkyaku
[INDENT=1]AE = 360 dmg[/INDENT]
[INDENT=1]AE 2012 = 352 dmg[/INDENT]
J.Roundhouse/Fierce > Cl.Fierce > MK Shienkyaku
[INDENT=1]AE = 312 dmg[/INDENT]
[INDENT=1]AE 2012 = 296 dmg[/INDENT]
J.Roundhouse/Fierce > Cl.Fierce > MK Shienkyaku FADC HK Rekkukyaku
[INDENT=1]AE = 410 dmg[/INDENT]
[INDENT=1]AE 2012 = 366 dmg[/INDENT]
[INDENT=1]AE 2012 = 394 dmg[/INDENT]
J.Roundhouse/Fierce > Cl.Fierce > MK Shienkyaku FADC HK Rekkukyaku > Rekkashingeki (2-hit Juggle)
[INDENT=1]AE = 470 dmg[/INDENT]
[INDENT=1]AE 2012 = 426 dmg[/INDENT]
[INDENT=1]AE 2012 = 454 dmg[/INDENT]
J.Roundhouse/Fierce > Cl.Fierce > MK Shienkyaku FADC HK Rekkukyaku > Rekkashingeki (character specific 3-hit Juggle)
[INDENT=1]AE = 553 dmg[/INDENT]
[INDENT=1]AE 2012 = 509 dmg[/INDENT]
[INDENT=1]AE 2012 = 537 dmg[/INDENT]
J.Roundhouse/Fierce > Cl.Fierce > MK Shienkyaku > Rekkashingeki (3-hit Juggle)
[INDENT=1]AE = 483 dmg[/INDENT]
[INDENT=1]AE 2012 = 467 dmg[/INDENT]
4-Frame Option Select Punish
[media=youtube]z15Hj0S-JnM[/media]
neutral stick on wake up?
No.
ok, i give up. cant be just reversal ultra, you showed the dp winning. whats up
:qcf::db::qcf::uf: + :2k:~:3p:
Kara Ultra.
oh, ok. i got a pm saying the same.
thats very heavy on the risk side of things tho. i’ll remember it for if someone is trying to chip kill me