Nyoronoru pretty much said it.
cl.HP and cr.MP are 4 frame startup = 1 frame links.
cr.LK, cr.LP and **st.LP **are all 3 frame startup = 2 frame links.
Nyoronoru pretty much said it.
cl.HP and cr.MP are 4 frame startup = 1 frame links.
cr.LK, cr.LP and **st.LP **are all 3 frame startup = 2 frame links.
Well it’s good that you’re getting consistent with the cl.HP, so this may not be as useful for you.
Just to clarify in fewer words, when you go for the cl.HP link, you’re forced to cancel the HP into something risky (a point-blank range Rekka or Flame Kick). While both 1-frame links can be beaten by mashing if you mistime the link, only the HP link can be punished AFTER the attempted link (i.e. after you’ve hit the Rekka cancel or Flame Kick cancel); only by FADCing a Flame Kick will you be safe from harm if you miss the link.
cr. MP on the other hand, doesn’t force a cancel immediately. You get more time to hit-confirm the 1-frame link and then link with cr.LP from there. That way, you’re not running into the opponent’s face with a blocked Rekka that’s minimum -4 and maximum -8 (you’d probably commit to HP Rekka for damage so it would be -8) on block, or with a Flame Kick that forces you to burn 2 bars just to be safe. In this way the cr.MP gives you a safety net after the link that you would not otherwise have. Hope that clears that part up.
As for Super cancels, I’d say that cr.MP is the preferred linking method because, again, you have more time to confirm you hit the harder link. If you miss the cl.HP link, you would’ve already canceled into Super and wasted an entire bar (and be punished for it). If you miss the cr.MP link, you can confirm that it’s been blocked and not try for the second cr.MP and the Super cancel. Either way, the damage difference would be 20dmg for cr.MP> cr.MP xx Super, which is not a lot.
[edit] Yup, confirmed that it does NOT work on Sakura. Thanks for testing it out
Yes please do. I’ve tested it on C.Viper, Ryu (who should share hitboxes with the other shotos), Cammy, Rog, Honda, Bison, Sakura (doesn’t work), and Hakan. I’ll keep testing to find out more issues with this if there are any.
As for Abel, I found that it’s more of an issue with Abel’s hitbox than anything else. You’re more inclined to get a Far HP instead of a cl.HP if you’re going for that particular combo on him because for some reason, it’s harder to get in closer with HK CW on Abel. You can literally be standing on the naked part of Abel’s toes and still get a far st.HP even though it looks like you’re close enough.
There is a weird issue with Tenshin on Abel specifically, however. It seems that when using Tenshin on Abel, you can get he cr.MP, but not link it to cr.LP. That doesn’t make much of a difference though since you’d be using cl.HP for that anyway.
Ok tested it out on the cast.
ok vs abel
after cw
d.mp, d.lp whiffs (hits in corner)
d.mp, d.lp whiffs (ex cw, it hits)
d.mp, s.lp hits
sak, can’t be done
everybody else is good
Sweet, thanks for taking the time Raylong. 1.5 out of 35 ain’t bad!
lol, I hitted training mode and randomly chose the opponent to test this combo, it picked up the only character with which it doesn’t work. Guess i’m lucky this time.
That’s RayLong?
Damn, I feel honoured Your Fei, Ray, pretty much single handedly inspired me to take up Street Fighter.
Haven’t seen this listed? New ?_?
counter hit - cl.mp to U1
Go to training and turn on counter hit then try to link it.
Sorry if I wasn’t clear, I’m just trying to think of ways you could set up a cl. mp counter to make this useful.
Someone tossed it up [media=youtube]y1ECIxA8EPc"[/media]
Vega/Seth CW Combo Glitch
[media=youtube]j6rqP971RFo[/media]
The first part of this video is there to show it can’t really be forced from open play. The second part of the video shows one way you can can force the correct hit animation.
For these two characters, cl.strong can cause two different hit anims. The standard one, which is attributed to attacks hitting above the waist that cause pushback, and the second, which is the anim that usually plays for low, medium attacks on hit.
The second hit anim allows the CW combo to work. This can be forced by either using a meaty cl.strong against the reset landing animation, or an attack on the first frame after the opponent’s blockstun.
This has to hit on the first frame.
A practical application is shown in the video, but can theoretically be applied when using Fei Long’s frame traps.
Thanks Neville some useful Info
Not totally reliable and the link itself isn’t the easiest thing but just use counter hit setups with no more then 2 frames inbetween.
On hit
j.lk(deep) cl.mp
c.lk cl.mp
On Block
lvl 2 FA(+5 on block)
Flame Kick FADC(At least +3)
You can use cl.lp and try to “link” it into cl.mp but since its a 1 framer if your off and they try to push a button. You get a Counter Hit. Same principles with lvl2 focus on block
The on-hit ones aren’t the best idea really unless you’re going for an intentional “blow-up” of crouch teching. But fishing for those things isn’t really guaranteed :-/ I like the cl.LP> cl.MP one though. Fairly easy to combo and it’s a solid trap if you miss by a couple frames.
The Flame Kick FADC as someone pointed out before is actually +0 on block. I thought it was +3 too at first, but we found something on the SRK wiki which seems to make sense, explaining why it’s actually +0.
Go to training and make the dummy block for a split second. FK then Dash forward and use c.lk on the first possible frame. If its still autoguarded it must be at least +3. I got it to autoguard.
The Wiki that explains it says Ryu has 4 uncancellable frame that you have to subtract from the advantage.
Autoguard doesn’t quite work like that. Try blocked cr.LK and then cr.MP. That’s a frame trap with a 4-frame gap and not a true blockstring. It won’t work.
The quote I’m referring to, which you correctly guessed is:
*"Note that you cannot dash-cancel out of the first four frames of a focus attack, so when calculating in regard to a FADC off a normal or special move, you must subtract these frames from the advantage.
For example, off Ryu’s Shoryuken:
* normal forward dash: 18 frames
* shoryuken blockstun: 20 frames
* forward dash out of a focus attack: 17 frames
* uncancellable duration: 4 frames
20 - 17 - 4 = -1
So Ryu is at a 1 frame disadvantage after a Shoryuken FADC."*
That said, Fei’s Flame Kick also has 20 frames of blockstun (Vanilla SF4 wiki). Doing the math, Fei is +0 considering his dash is 1-frame faster than Ryu’s. I understand the example is for Ryu only, but I can’t imagine them changing the mechanics of SRK> FADC by as much as 4 frames between Ryu and Fei–that’s a significant difference.
Correct me if I’m wrong but autoguarding is the mechanic that allows people to continue blocking while taking their hand of the “back or downBack” position. This happens when block stuns overlap. So if you chain c.lp together properly. They can’t leave block because the game blocks for them. I’m assuming the above. I’m not talking about auto-block in training options btw.
The Ryu example has the uncanceleble frames at 4. This I doubt is true for every character. Everything else like block stun and forward dash can be accounted for.
this is really speculation tho
We’re gonna need to test that on a human. I don’t think the Dummy settings can differentiate between autoguarding (as in hitting block once, then leaving the stick neutral to still block) vs the Auto block settings in training room.
All I know is that the dummy, when put into Auto block, will only leave the first attack unblocked; others will be actively blocked. When it blocks Fei’s Super/Ultra, it still blocks the 5th hit, even though you have to manually block that one.
I’m just taking that quote from the wiki. The first part only said you can’t cancel out of the first 4 frames of a Focus attack; I think the example afterward is just to show how that works on a specific character.
Well yeah I knew that so what I did was set the dummy to record and made it block for a very brief moment and then I Flame Kick and st.lp and see if the dummy will auto guard the 2nd hit. If I mess up the dummy gets hit. Now with uncancellable frames being consistent to every character then I don’t know. I guess I’m wrong then and it has to be +0 on block.
It’s evens on block after the dash.
You can test it by picking Fei for the two characters in Training. Set the dummy to do. Medium Flame Kick FADC Medium Flame Kick. Block the first one then reversal Medium Flame Kick. You’ll get a trade. If you use reversal light FK you get beat, and EX FK beats the dummy.
One note for fellow Feis, after Ibuki’s EX Kazegiri (DP), do a reversal Rekka instead of a dash forward to beat the Kunai (much easier to do). You’ll gain 10 meter for the whiff and still recover in time to punish her.
I also found some interesting punishment information on Rufus which I posted in the new match-up thread:
“”**EX/HK/MK CW BEAT U2 (BIG BANG TYPHOON) ON REACTION
(need a little space to start-up, otherwise, you get an instant knockdown and take 30 or so damage, but that’s a win anyway)
HP Rekkas/ULTRA 1 PUNISHES MESSIAH KICK> LK FOLLOWUP> FADC BACKDASH ON REVERSAL**""
Frame-data and spacing wise, I’m now looking into which FADC> Backdash options are punishable by Fei by means of something HARD. * I know that in many instances, if you hit the opponent too early, you’ll knock them out of their airborne state while they’re back dashing, but that’s not good enough.* I want to find out which popular options are punishable by things like a full Rekka combo or Ultra on reversal or with a little frame leniency.
This could potentially be a long list (35 characters to go through), so it would help if you guys could pick what you perceive as popular FADC options that the opponent uses (i.e. Flash Kick> FADC Backdash is one) based on their inherent playstyle or just from what we’ve seen in matches. I can try going through them myself, but it would be a huge help if you all chipped in. We could split the list or something.
Testing this by setting the dummy to do Special> FADC Backdash> keep holding backwards to block. I’m using the below metrics for Fei (seems to work):
Super = 6 frames
Ultra = 9 frames
LP Rekka = 7 frames
MP Rekka = 9 frames
HP Rekka = 10 frames
Data:
Cody
EX Bingo= Ultra/MP Rekkas
Air juggle on hit? testing
Guile
Flash Kick= Ultra/MP Rekkas
Air juggle on hit? testing
Sagat
Tiger Upper= HP Rekkas
Air juggle on hit? Super