That’s interesting. It’s just in this game it would be more of importance since you don’t get meter for whiffing normals once you attain 1 bar of meter. The meter build generally isn’t as fast as MVC2 either.
Alpha 3 was bigger than Alpha 2 in the US, too. It just fell out of tournament rotation.
for your mouth
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Still being played in Japan; tournament footage from six days ago.[/details]
And almost no characters in MvC2 have real infinites, they mostly undizzy after about 40 hits or fewer. If people are talking about ToD combos etc, that’s a slightly different subject (even with Iron Man, but for simplicity’s sake you could still call that an infinite series). As Spider-Dan said, the undizzy part of the game’s engine worked rather well.
And I think Killian’s point was very easy to understand: the more things are discovered by players, the more open the game was to experimentation and discovery. Not all of these things will be good for the quality of the game at higher levels, but these things, including infinites, ToDs etc, are not necessarily bad.
i dont give a fuck what japan likes, i dont live there. I’m not going to like or dislike a game because of what Japan thinks
There still is scene for MvC2 in japan.
yeah Ive seen the a-cho vids. they still play iron man, THOSE CHEAP FUCKS 
I was meaning Kouhatsu still had a scene the only time you see anything from MvC2 from a-cho is the capcom olympic.
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because you were incorrect. You can try to rationalize your error to make you feel better but doesn’t change the fact that you were incorrect.
“effectively a console only game” dances around the fact that was was indeed an arcade release first. I have an arcade near me that still has that, and there were arcades around me back in the mid 90’s that had it as well.
Neither was SF4 but that didn’t stop people from importing the arcade game (at 8 grand a pop too) and creating a USA based scene.
No the arcade came first. Again people imported the game, first footage of it was back in MWC back in 04 or 05. However the novelty of the game wore off quickly and people went back to ST.
Its not meaningless because at the time fans were disgusted by how slow SSF2 was and went back to HF. Just because ST was released and appeased some of the fans that were disappointed doesn’t negate the fact that at the time SSF2 was a failure and killed the golden age of SF2 in america. To which SF games have never regained their original popularity since Super came out. Infact in the eyes of a lot of people HF is the classic, the ideal SF2 game. However it just doesn’t get a lot of play.
You argue that these games that don’t count in your eyes are rare and at the end of the arcade life forget the fact that they’re rare because the arcade operators figured out at their customers didn’t like the games and didn’t waste their money getting games that people wouldn’t like. Arcades are a business, especially as costs went up there was little reason to gamble on these inferior games.
Being technically correct is the best form of correct. You can try to rationalize your error, making you believe that your still essentially correct because examples of your error can be disregarded in your mind. But you are in fact still in error.
not much of a difference between infinites and a long a combo that kills. The only difference is that infinites are a loop, a long combo doesn’t have a repeatable loop.
so when wesker does XF3, c.b, c.c, s, sj, bbcs, gun, c.b, c.h, s, bbc, air super for massive life and it kills, it has done the exact same thing as an infinite. Killed a character in 1 hit and created team advantage.
I don’t have a problem with infinites because even a combo can kill. Its all perspective and how you want your game to be. In fact an infinite can be harder to land than a combo itself because of the timing involved. I found a strider\spiderman rejump infinite towards the end of mvc2 and these were pretty fucking hard to land because of the timing involved. Fucking tight ass timing and it felt like there was three 1-2 frame links in it. Strider had a double 1f link iirc to land his infinite and with something that tight is it still broken? striders death loop is about 100x harder to land than the wesker kill combo when he has XF available.
i can understand some people, but dammit how many people have actually PLAYED A3 to call it trash. Like how many things can you say about it as to why you think it is bad, becuase it sounds like niggas is repeatin what other niggas is sayin without thought.
Shinji, Seriously.
First of all I always research this stuff (whether I’m sure or not), and as far as Arcades go, all your examples are japan only releases or very limited releases, or both.
I acknowledge that technically, yes they had arcade releases, but they weren’t enough to impact the US scene, just like VS.
The important part I’m trying to get across is still that The classics are the games that were the most available in the late 90s-mid 2000s. The games that became competitive were the ones that people had the greatest access to, and that only makes sense.
Still, sometimes the only way to end a conversation is to end it, so as far as I’m concerned this part of the thread is over, we’re just going in circles now anyways.
On to more lively topics!
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i can understand some people, but dammit how many people have actually PLAYED A3 to call it trash. Like how many things can you say about it as to why you think it is bad, becuase it sounds like niggas is repeatin what other niggas is sayin without thought.
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A3 seemed *weird* when it came out, it felt way more different than A2 than A2 felt from A1, that probably has a lot to do with it.(double I know, but making a clean break)
The issue with infinites in general isn’t the damage, it’s the the length, the other player feeling out of control, and the side-effects.
The time is important, because there’s a point past which being in a seriously long (in seconds) combo makes most victims just get pissed off and quit, and that hurts the game.
The other bit is the side effects, touch of death combos tend to be very meter intensive, and sometimes consume other limited resources (ie Xfactor in MvC3). Infinites, by their nature, are almost always resource-positive, which can mess things up. (Although you sometimes get interesting things out of that too, like people extending infinite loop elements for the explicit purpose of meter gain)
The extreme example of this would be dead body (and I’m always a bit worried to get mvc2 things wrong, so feel free to correct me), which have the primary effect of gaining meter and running out the time.
In general, I'd agree it's as you say, who cares much about a bad infinite? It simply won't come up much. The good ones are what you have to look out for and deal with quickly, but they're vanishingly rare.
The developer is in a different place than we are, though. **An infinite that doesn't much effect competitive play can have a large negative impact on a games reception and sales, and even on how much people keep playing the game, **and those are things that Capcom really really doesn't want, so they have to react strongly to infinites that get a lot of press. They hurt the brand.over mvc2’s lifespan, quite a few of those infinites were performed in real matches, like doom’s, morrigan’s, blackhearts (common), cyclops’s (with good cyc’s), and ken vs standing sent (not too uncommon). i always thought marvel2 had a good infinite mitigating mechanic. i actually don’t mind mvc3’s hsd system, i just wish it didn’t kick in so quickly, but at the same time, i understand the reasoning behind it.
wtf hahaha
Infinites don’t hurt the brand because mvc2 as of right now still has outsold mvc3 and sfxt. Scrubby things like charging money to be good by paying for gems, comeback mechanics, easier mechanics in general and listening to scrubs about beefing up the input delay to allow the sound to be better hurt the brand. Scrub mentality is affecting how good the games start off because they have to appease a group of people who want bad games to begin with. You can’t make a good game by listening to idiots.
You think infinites are the only thing plaguing sfxt? the bobo ass fighting system, the inability for some characters to compete, the increased input delay because that’s what scrubs want. ** Things like the fighting engine hurt sfxt more than infinites ever could. If sfxt had no infinites, it would still be dog shit as a fighter scrubs don’t realize that though.**
Listening to the CoD community that whine about everything and hop off to the next highly marketed title in a week is what ruined SFxT.
SFxT can be great if:
Speed up the damn game
Less hitstun on some moves
Jump speeds go up
Cross assualt= new v ism
Gems are a separate mode
More damage, better scaling system
Better music (That seriously makes me play worse)
Better timer
A game like SFxT is supposed to be technical, so why isn’t it? I don’t care if they release it twice, fix the fucking game.
How about instead of catering toward stupid people you educate them as to why they are stupid, probably without actually calling them that, but either way works.
Things capcom is too stupid to say to its fans.
- Do you know how many people who played old games have no idea that there even were infinites in those games?
- Do you know how many bad characters had infinites and were still bad?
- The fact that El fuerte’s infinite helped him be competitive shouldn’t be something that came up in response to a question posed by an interviewer who obviously has very little knowledge of fighting games, it should have been something Capcom brought up a ling time ago.
- Explain how tweaking frames in a damn fighting games works and how slight changes can have a domino effect throughout the game.
ITs not capcom’s fault that this idea that any infinite must be patched on sight exists, but it is their fault that it has persisted for so long.
Is Kuro running shop at tournaments these days because he has an infinite?
Captain american had the first infinite in MVC3 and the number of people playing him nationally went from 8 to 12.
Wasn’t capcom supposed to be throwing around half a million dollars this year or something? how about you use some of that money to proactively educat your fanbase so you don’t get these types of complaints.
The entire entire complaint is based off lack of knowledge and capcom’s decision is to defends the position when it comes up instead of providing knowledge so the question doesn’t come up.
Dude, seriously, did I say that I think infinites are the only thing plaguing SFxT?
The only mention I’ve made of SFxT in the last 2 days and 8 posts (only counting this page, I have limits) was me saying to YOU specifically,
So my only mention of that game was the exact opposite of what you’re saying I think.
You seriously seriously need to start reading peoples posts (and its not just mine either) for their content, rather than this particularly aggressive strawmanning you seem to like to go in for.
You don't seem to understand there's more to a games brand than that particular game's hardcore fans though. Plenty of people think less of the game for the infinites and glitches, and that's not even getting into whole countries that as a whole think the game is crap. (I'm going to underline, bold and italic the following line for emphasis, it'll save us all a lot of wrangling later ***I am not saying that they're right, but rather that those opinions exist, and aren't that uncommon.***)
PS: Every single one of your posts in these discussions lately has had mention buying gems, scrubs, and input delay. Lets just agree that nobody likes those things and you can quit fixating on them. There's no fight to win there.or have the complete opposite reaction and make people not wanna bother with the game because “it’s too cheap”
The only problem with infinites are when they open up damage windows not generally accessible through any other combo. XvSF and MvC2 infinites were ok because there was a dozen different ways to kill most of the cast in a single touch, infinite or not, and the main difference was the amount of time and inputs required for the combos. You can’t even tell if a combo in MvC3 is an infinite or not when it kills someone because a lot of combos just kill people, infinite or not.
It’s hard to name a lot of examples of infinite combos that open greatly-superior damage windows that in games people consider competitive because generally infinite combos that do that tend to MAKE a game not so good in competitive play. I guess the last time one has come up since SFxT (which will presumably be a major target of the game’s first balance patch) is probably Carl Clover in Blazblue CT, and even then people didn’t really startle too much at it with stuff like BEEEEES and swordswordswordswordswordswordjumpswordswordswordswordswordsword flying around in the same game.
Except, again, the problem with infinites isn’t the damage, its that they make the game essentially one-player for very extended periods of time.
They hurt the playing experience for the person suffering through it, and that makes people less interested in actually playing the game.