You quoted the ‘if they’re gamebreaking’ part, but then ignored it. That’s like the core element of the statement… and in ignoring that you’re missing the entire point
The SF4 infinites didn’t get their own patch (AFAIK), they weren’t gamebreaking, so it was okay to leave them until a later time.
I would actually agree with you that the SFxT infinites aren’t that important and can wait until the next patch, none of them are going to severely warp the way the game is played (which is the actual concern). find one that you can do out of any hit, and has easy timing, then you have an infinite that needs to be patched immediately.
Skullgirls did take a clever approach to it, but it’s also entirely useless to apply to other, already released, games. The idea there was to build the combo system on an entirely different principle… you can’t just retrofit MvC3 or SFxT to use IPS, it’d mean remaking the game engine from start.
You’re saying that people preferred the arcade versions to the console ports, pretty much (excepting SFvX which is liked but isn’t considered one of the big oldschool classics).
That goes without saying. The whole point of my argument is that the ‘classic games’ were the ones that were still widespread in the arcades when the crash hit. This had to do with them being common (lots of copies sold), and the most recent in the series (since arcades tended to replace games with their sequels in the same cabinets back when arcade space was at a premium). It ties in with the KOF question from that other thread. Why is KOF so popular in Middle/South America? Neogeo cabs were cheap (especially hacked ones), and so they were extremely common… so that’s what people played.
The thing that kind of shocks me with this whole line of argument, honestly, is that nobody has yet said ‘those were the common ones because they were good!’ but are instead trying to find examples where older games are better liked than their sequels… and remember only the last one counts.
I think that’s the funniest part about the whole thing.
They put in a mechanic in a game that was probably the most haphazardly thrown together, and yet it’s worked out for the better (mostly) then anything else they’ve tried since.
That’s the other thing that’s just hilarious/tragic.
Most of the problems with the modern Capcom games come from them trying to intentionally recreate things that worked out amazingly as total accidents the first time around
Was it clockwork’s site that used to have the infinites on it?
Like 50-80% of the cast of MVC2 has at least one infinite. If infinites are so game breaking how come no one ever remembers this fact.
Because nobody gives much of a fuck if: A) a character has a rejump infinite on Sentinel since almost everybody has a rejump on Sentinel, 2) infinites on Roll…and because 3 out of the 4 god characters didn’t need infinites to win.
Well at least from talking with Mike Z…after bringing up some stuff about Marvel 2, ideally the game he’d want to more so be about resets at the highest level of play than full on TOD’s. It’s easy to look at stuff in combo videos and go “OMG this game is just gonna be dial a death game”, but what people also need to know is that the combo system works like in Melty Blood where where the longer you combo someone the less meter you get and the more meter they get. Meaning just because you see these videos of “hey just learn this and you’re a great Skullgirls player” that’s most likely not actually how the game will turn out in the end. Especially once people start using 2 and 3 character teams more often.
Marvel 3 I personally feel will stay way more TOD centric than Skullgirls at high level play. In Marvel 3 there’s too many factors like characters not having enough health, easy mode hit confirms, moves that do everything at once and XF that allows for a way more TOD centric game.
Marvel 2 had plenty of TOD’s but the only character that was regularly played at high level that totally concentrated on that shit was Iron Man (and he wasn’t even within the top 4 characters). Even if things get out of hand for Skullgirls (not anymore than Marvel 3 obviously), the game was made in 2012 so things can obviously get worked on.
As far as infinites in general…they have almost nothing to do with why SFxT is just not really the game it could have been.
The mistake (on both sides) is thinking of all infinite combos as equal. An easy d.HPxN is not the same as a multiple single-frame link nightmare combo. In the same way, an infinite that only works in say Xfactor and in the corner doesn’t matter nearly as much as an infinite that can be started out of any hit anywhere on the screen.
Capcom’s just in a slightly different position than us, they have to patch (or justify!) any infiinte quickly, or the community and the press will have a nice old BBQ with their balls.
It’s probably best to treat TOD’s seperately from infinites. Imo, the issues they raise are slightly different.
Edit: The MvC3 Akuma infinite is always a source of exasperation/weird pride for me. I remember talking to Haunts a bit before release, after he’d gotten his preview copy, and specifically outlining that loop, and asking if it would work. He was all ‘na, that’d never work!’ so I missed my one shot at fame ><
It just feels worse to be caught in an infinite compared to a touch of death. And to people who are unfamiliar with the game/genre, most infinites look unskilled and boring compared to some ToD combos.
One of the main problems with infinites is just the feeling of helplessness that occurs to the player being comboed. Sure, one player’s getting a kick out of being able to pull of the combo, but the other player is just sitting there, not being able to make any more reads or meaningful interactions with the other player. The biggest problem with this is just time. If an infinite combo ends up killing an opponent in like three seconds, that’s not too bad, because it means both players can just jump right back into the action next round. But if the combo ends up taking a full minute to complete, it’s just boring. This applies to ToD too, but usually there’s some flair in ToD combos so it’s at least not boring to watch.
Like T. Hawk’s (near) inescapable grab loop in ST. It may as well be an infinite instead of a ToD, but when you get caught by it, the match is over in literally ten seconds so you can get right back into another match to try and avoid that situation. But if you have an infinite that takes the entire timer and might not even kill, there’s a problem.
In practice, infinites and ToDs are more or less the same thing unless you have the weird edge cases like SFxTekken or Melty Blood ver. A where an infinite just meant a person won by time out. I mean, if you have a character that can do 100% damage through a basic magic series combo and a character that can do 100% through an infinite, it’s the same result either way.
Exactly my point, if character with infinites is much lower tier than a character without infinites then maybe there more to winning than having an infinite combo. If a C tier character has an infinite I think the fact that the character is C tier should supersede the instant need to remove the infinite, just because its an infinite
It does and it doesn’t, just about every game has stuff that is known but “too hard to be practical” in the beginning, until of course one person take the time to learn it and starts actually using it in matches.
The latter is easy to solve though, you just push the fix back to the presumably pending update. If it becomes a serious problem it can be emergency patched, but if it’s not, it can wait a little while.
Whole discussion is, of course, moot if they’re not supporting the game any more
Incorrect, most of those games that I listed were released in the arcades. Only exceptions being HDR and MvC3 series. SFA2G originally was released in arcades, Japan had it named Zero 2 Alpha. SFZ3U was originally released in arcades on the naomi hardware, Super Street Fighter 2 obviously was in the arcades and was the first cps2 SF title, Hyper Street Fighter 2 Anniversary Edition was also released on the CPS2 hardware.
Now the imperfect console ports of these sequel games (that weren’t doing well in arcades to begin with) didn’t help matters.
People like saying ‘incorrect’, its so… definitive! They’re almost invariably wrong when they say it too.
SFA2:G was effectively a console only game, especially in the US. Also, like HF>S>ST, it was obsoleted already when the time came.
SFA3:U wasn’t released in the US officially at all, and was way more common as a console everywhere.
HSF2 was originally a Console-specific port that then, when it appeared in the arcade (and this is a pattern), was pretty rare. Also 2004 is a bit out of the timeframe.
HF>Super is meaningless because both of them are trumped by ST, which is the one considered the ‘classic’
You’re being pedantic and trying to pull a ‘well technically’ maneuver, but try to understand the point I’m making here.
“The classic games were consistently the ones that were most commonly in the arcades when the Fighting Game Crash happened” Some version that was mega-rare in the arcade (SFA3:U), was pre-obsolete (Nightwarriors 2), or was a ‘console version’ that got a few arcade machines (HSF2), none of those matter, because those weren’t what was generally available (or had console stigma).
Hell, it’s had a revival and surge in popularity in the last few years, but Vampire Savior didn’t make the cut in the US for such a long time… primarily because there weren’t enough machines floating around to support competition.
Savior 2 and Hunter 2 both came mere months after VSav. And before you say anything, Hunter 2 was a followup to VSav on the same engine (not Hunter’s engine).
Most incomprehensibile set of updates ever, ‘yeah we’re gonna do 2 versions with the same engine changes, just one of them will remove all the VS characters, and the other will remove 3 of the basic characters.’ I’m pretty sure that that was a setup that pleased nobody.
The meter scaling down for the person doing it and meter scaling up for whoever is in the combo is like that in a lot of games ex. MvC2 and KoF XIII
Mike_Z schooled me on that.
Japan deemed A2 trash, US loved it and A2Gold was the “fix”, which I don’t believe was received well in Japan or US because it was worse or so that’s the story.
