drama queen alert? 9_9
I could see Kim being mid A rank. Cause when I was in Japan I saw some pretty crazy Kim rush down and cross ups so I wouldn’t be surprised if they got hella better with Kim.
I think Ryo is better than Robert cause basically Ryo doesn’t even need super. His combos are pretty buff alone dwn.B,dwn.A,std.A xx hcb.B or D and if your in the corner you could ad another spin kick in there and end it with either hundred punches or C version uppercut. Also his jumping CD is just ridiculous he has so much range and priority. When I play Robert I feel so limited. He doesn’t has a consistent combo from a low where you have to mostly rely on his zoning game. Which isn’t bad, but for Robert his worst match is Leona cause what’s Robert gonna do without his fireball. Now you got to get in close his cross up kick is decent, but not good it’s so predictable and against Leona getting in is pretty hard. With Ryo I don’t think he has a bad match up at all.
I’m sorry maybe I should elaborate what I meant: Iori’s edge lies within his hcf+C, otherwise everything else is pretty average compared to Shen, Terry, Andy, Robert etc.
His specials are all solid, yes he has a fast hop but his dash is pretty slow. His normals are good but not exceptionally good, I’ll give you that his d.B is better than average though. Plenty of ppl have good s.D, I think Terry’s one is slightly better due to the hitbox, Goro has a good s.D and so does Kim so comparatively speaking it’s not that special.
His DM is better than average, and does well against anti air but so do most DMs like Robert’s, Ryo’s, Duo Lon’s, Shen’s, Beni’s which all can be used in a combo as well just like Iori.
As far as his command grab, yes it can be used in a combo, but the distance is kinda picky. For instance, you’re more likely to miss a s.C, f+A, hcf+C Iori versus Shen’s s.C, f+B, hcb~f+C…mind you Shen’s grab has one of the shortest range. Granted Shen’s and instant grab while Iori’s not. Consider this: If you were to see how many grabs you land between Robert and Iori outside a combo, Robert will connect more times than not (and it has farther range to boot). At least the players here react to his hcf+C quite easily and it’s not like it has any invincibility like Clark’s old Frankensteiner (dp+K). Don’t get me wrong, I feel he’s a solid A, just not S.
As for Joe, I think he’s quite comparable to Kyo in different ways. They both have the best two dps in the game (IMO). Boths have great pokes/chains. Joe has a good j.B and j.D that are the few that can cross people up. He has great corner trapping potential and as long as you don’t spam them too predictably, most of his specials are safe. Joe’s great zoner as well, I feel better than Iori IMO. Both Kyo and Joe don’t really have solid mid screen DM combos (Kyo’s s.C, CD, DM misses pretty easily if you’re not dead close and Joe has to rely on d.C, f+B, DM etc). Joe’s d.D, used correctly, is real safe and helps him zone as well.
Overall just a great character, easy to use, and with pretty abusable attack strings.
He doesn’t have much mixups but honestly he doesn’t really need any.
Another point is that I feel that Iori has certain matchups that are difficult for him especially against Shen since his qcf+A shutsdown his hops and his qcb+B, Ash, Andy and Terry give him a hard time too. My friend Duc puts it well, if you can shutdown Iori’s hop and his qcb+B (which makes up for his dash) then he’s in trouble. Joe doesn’t really have too many bad matchups.
BTW, are you going to EVO BBH?
I’m sorry, but can someone please explain to me why Ralf isn’t S-tier in this game?
He seems to have all the usual tools, good BnB, corner combos, easy to land super, good normals, and a very tight CC combo.
I think what should put him into S-tier was that sick corner reset combo that AI guy did against the Goro player in the KOF tourney. I’m sure everybody saw that
And this mid screen combo right at 2:17 from the Yokohama video [media=youtube]6zqgA4mKZC4&feature=channel_page[/media]
That’s about 50% with no CC or corner.
So what’s a guy have to do to get into S-Tier?
-Ralf lacks a good BnB if you ask me. He can do s.D, Vulcan punch [3hits] into combo of choice, but it’s not that easy to pull off, and you still have to be close. He has no s.C, CD mid-screen combo if he doesn’t have a DM.
-Ralf’s corner reset is pretty good, but several others have corner resets as well, but like most tricks once you know how to get out of it it has it’s limitations.
-Another thing is his anti-air qcb+C is pretty good only if you don’t get hit out of his startup.
-I think Terry’s CC is easier to pull off perhaps coz personally I cannot get past the second last qcb+C for Ralf’s Arcadia CC combo.
He’s one of those characters that you really wanna play him but once you do, you feel that he’s lacking something (coz that’s how I was). To be fair, I’m trying to pick him up again after being more familiar with the game in general.
S-Tier, to me, is all around really strong in all areas plus possessing certain attributes that give him or her an edge.
Yeah you’re right, not long after this post I saw another video with an Iori player from AI doing a corner combo reset thing as well.
I didn’t notice that Ralf required meter so much to do all his really dangerous stuff, whereas Iori and Kyo obviously do not.
first of i want my trophys fuckers.
and bbh, since you DO know the game and have played it thats why i was pointing at you. you seem to have a solid skill and it wasnt even meant as a diss or anything. but not everything YOU say is set in stone nor 100% true. i rarely saw anybody playing with kim and thats one of the biggest reasons i wouldnt count on what people say about him too quickly.
how often have you fought a good kim or used him that often? not a whole lot, thats why i thought people where missing out on him. he still seems easy to rush with, even without his reckas. i still dont understand why nobody mains him or uses him more often. its probably cause they still dont understand him that well, even with his simplified moveset.
as for ryo, most people here thought he was pretty bad, especially compared to robert. from the way he was played in the west, and after seeing him played the way he was played in the east really opened my eyes. hes got pretty much everythng a character needs to win.
also anakron get out of bbh’s ass man. he can take care of himself. no need to announce shit, if you dont wanna post just gtfo and stfu, easy right? your the one whos wrong for just taking everything said about the game set in stone when the games only been out a few months. your acting like everything about the game is already figured out and everything is already known. it aint.
remember this is a forum, having discussions about shit like this is why there is a forum in the first place. one thing people dont understand is that its actually a good thing people where wrong about said characters. that means theres still some depth left and the characters still got options to make them viable. which is a good thing, remember. no need for people to have their egos hurt.
Lmao.
You’re such a fucking hypocrite it isn’t even funny or cute anymore but whatever.
I mean, gee, it’s pretty fucking obvious how much potential a character could possibly have once you’ve been messing with him for three months. This isn’t a 1990s Capcom game where there’s a glitch or exploitable that a character has that makes them better for whatever reason. But okay. Let’s play theory fighter and keep thinking the characters have some magical move we don’t know of. Who knows? Maybe Clark has his frankenstiener too, right? Ryo pretty much has everything a character needs to win? Hmnn sounds just about like every other character in the game to me.
And for the record, there’s a giant difference between ‘discussion’ and ‘theory fighting’. Learn it, live it, love it.
sorry for the big n00b question, but what do you mean by counter-hit. I’m assuming that means where you hit someone with C or D during recovery frames?
Although there aren’t many videos of Kim or Ryo, there are many people who played him or against him. Its just that we don’t post those videos. I’ve personally played against really good Kim and Ryo players. Ryo can be considered A rank, however Kim is questionable.
Within the Arcadia Tier list I’d still rather play or play against any of the other A tier charcters than Kim.
Terry, Andy, Joe, Shen Woo, Kensou, Ralf, Ryo
This is basically just a opinion of how good characters are from what the magazine editors hear and observer as are most tier list. People have provided clear examples of why they think some characters on the tier list do not deserve certain rankings.
Back to the topic of Kim and Ryo let’s break it down.
Kim:
decent/good light attack combos - s. B x3 -> qcb+K
standard corner combo - C -> CD -> qcb+B -> d, u+B
Only super combos 2 light attacks -> super or C -> CD -> super
His air special attacks are good, but aren’t exactly menacing
Speed-wise he is just average, the only move that is speedy is his f, f+D
CC combo is average in damage compared to other characters
Cross-over attack with j. A
qcb+K can be punished if done too close but beats low attacks
d,u+K seems to be able to get hit out of against opponents d. B’s
Speed/Priority of regular attacks and pokes are standard but nothing special
Ryo:
decent/good light attack combo - d. B, s. A, s. A -> qcb+B
good corner combo - C -> CD -> qcb+DD -> qcb+DD -> dp+C
super combo - C -> CD -> super
Speed wise he is normal, but his normal attacks have good priority/range
dp+A has good recovery and overall a very good anti air/wake up vs ground attacks
Has overhead f+A
Cross-up attack with j. B
Good CC combo, can be done anywhere on the screen
Comparatively there are characters than these 2 that have better pokes, combos, speed, priority and options.
In order to really observe what tier/rank these 2 characters have, you need to compare them to all the other characters and what they have and don’t have. Although there’s a lot more to gauge than these - speed, priority, damage, and options are the main factors to what makes a character good or bad. Kim and Ryo seem to be average to good in these categories, whereas some other characters excel in some of these categories.
Don’t get me wrong, those 2 characters are pretty good, but the argument prior to this is saying there are characters who have better speed, priority, damage, and options.
From the people who’ve played the game a lot for the last couple of months, there seems to be a ‘close’ general consensus on this forum as to which characters should be tiered high.
When you watch videos, you should be careful to jump to the conclusion of if the character is good or the player is what makes the character look good. However I do feel that this is one of the most balance kof’s so far, so the gap between the characters isn’t as large as the older games, so any character can go on a rampage depending on player skill. =P
… or start-up.
alright thanks
Well Tier lists are inevitable, there will always be character segregation. I have yet play the game myself, so I can’t give any worthy opinions. But what kind of overall balance are we seeing with the cast? How about console characters?
Intailly when video’s first surfaced I thought slower characters ie. Raiden, Ralf didn’t stand a chance due to the engine. But I see a change in tides(from videos) and as I’d hoped they seem to have their own unique zoning/mix-up game. I see diversity in the roster picks, and I hope this isn’t completely due to ignorance, cause everybody wants their team to be good, but morso overall game balance.
Just from the video’s I can tell I will enjoy this game, it’s already shown more diverse gameplay then SFIV. The metagame seems to be really good and share the KOF feel. Seems even in high level SF4 play it’s spam and race to ultra, interesting to watch, but doesn’t hold my interest as a gamer. IMO.
i think he meant the critical counter since you either have to press one of those buttons to initiate it
I’m not saying his neutral s. D is good for poking, just saying that it seems to be amazing anti-air. I’ve seen it shut down crossup attempts, and just people jumping around in general. Yeah other characters have more reliable anti-air options, but if this hits on counter you can of course follow it up with a myriad of things.
True. Ryo and Robert’s DM’s don’t work great as anti-air on reaction though, they have to be done early… they don’t seem to have invincibility at the very start, but once they begin moving they’re near-unstoppable.
It would be damn near broken if it had more range and was instant, heh. I seemed to whiff Robert’s hcf+K a hell of a lot so I’m not really sure Robert’s throw is THAT much better than Iori. The thing is that Iori has a better up-close game than Robert, he needs to stay on that ass and keep attacking. He’s going to be in range for his throw more often than Robert is, so there’s more of a threat of getting thrown, although Robert dash into throw is a lot more viable than Iori’s. It’s just that the payoff for landing Iori’s throw is so much better than any other character’s. Even if Iori doesn’t have meter (how often does someone not have meter in this game, haha), he gets to build a shitload of meter with the followup juggles. And he can potentially be right back in the opponent’s face when they get up. Robert kicks them away and puts them at full-screen distance unless he’s in the corner - not a horrible situation for Robert obviously, but if he wants another throw he has to work his wayback in. But obviously the throw isn’t a big part of Robert’s game, I suppose…
I’m still going to disagree that most of his normal pokes aren’t all that hotl. I’m preeeeeeeetty sure that the cr. D slide leaves him at frame disadvantage but I have no way of testing that now obviously 
As for his specials, okay Tiger Kick is indeed a great DP, but can be rather unsafe on the ground… Slash Kick is suicidal outside of combos, and TNT punch seems really really bad. Projectile is good though of course. This just seems to limit him a bit, it feels like his game is a lot of fishing for combos with cr. B’s into f+B into whatever, and trying to get them to jump into Tiger Kicks. I’ll admit that I didn’t know the potential of his crossups, that’s something I’ll have to try for myself. But I still haven’t been all that impressed by any of the Joe I’ve seen, and playing him he didn’t feel better than Iori at all.
Yes I will be at EVO! A shame that console XII has the worst possible release date, and it’s unknown if anyone will have a Japanese copy there… if it is there in some form though, I’m totally down to play some games. 
Which puts him in a solid A positon, but I’m still not convinced he’s got an edge over everyone else (S tier). Since he has a great dp+P (and particularly due to the angle), most opponents are not going to hop or hyper hop at Iori rendering the s.D useless against a jump attack.
Today, my friend’s Leona (Hebe on srk) j.C my DM, for Iori, on startup. Iori’s DM has no startup invincibility either apparently–we were both pretty shocked though.
True dat. Thank gawd.
Play against Jon’s (Mr. KOF) Robert 128 times and you’ll notice how good that move really is. I think it’s range is as far as Raiden’s command grab but less than Goro’s.
Robert may not be a super agressive rush down character like Shen, Iori, or Kensou but he doesn’t really have problem getting in either between his specials like his projectile, hienshippuken, j.BD, and dive kick.
I’ll drink to that. He definitely has the edge here.
I think the fact that Iori does have a few bad match ups makes him A.
Another point I’d like to bring up is that it’s so easy to pick up Joe and easy to win with him. Iori seems like you need a little more work. Joe doesn’t have decimating normals but neither does Kyo. When you compare Joe to Kyo, vs Iori to Kyo, I think Joe deserves the S.
Honestly if this was a point scale system instead of lettering, I’d put Kyo slightly ahead, then Joe, followed by Iori closely. All in all, this game is prolly the most balanced KOF even moreso than 2k2UM IMO.
Somehow I have a strange feeling we’ll get to play but who knows…
Assuming i’m thinking of the same thing (i don’t play Joe so i’m not sure his moveset), his slide at certain ranges (i’m not sure how far/deep u have to be yet) can be done into Tiger Kick which pretty much makes it safe.
I’ve been told if u tap light to bait it u can block the tiger kick after, haven’t tested myself, but it’s still frustrating.
edit: Did some more testing tonight and it seems you can cr.B him after the slide, anything meaty will just get hit by tiger kick.
Is Leona that low? haven’t touched the game yet, but was planning on using her as one of my 3. Been a fan of her forever. Gonna use her regardless of tier ranking, but would be nice to know.
Well Leona’s not that bad she is actually really good if you know how to use her. I’ve seen her do some pretty dope stuff when I was in Japan. So I’m also putting her in my 2nd team.
I see two more people who didn’t play XI…