Pre-EVO tier list (Also based on personal tournament/online experiences)
S; Beni, Yuri, Mr. Karate, EX Kyo, Regular Kyo, Claw Iori
A+: King, Hwa, K’, Shen, Billy, EX Iori
A: Vice, Saiki, Mature, Kim, Betty,
A-: Daimon, Clark, Mai, Takuma, Duo Lon, Andy, Ryo, Ralf, Kensou, Kula, Athena
B+: Chin, Robert, Raiden, Joe, Ash
B: Terry, Maxima, Leona
Post- EVO tier list (Results based, recent game play experience, and tool accessibility):
S: Beni, Yuri, Claw Iori, Mr. Karate, EX Kyo, Regular Kyo, Shen, King
A+: EX Iori, Mature, Hwa, Billy, Kim
A: Saiki, Takuma, K’, Betty
A-: Ralf, Clark, Ash, Mai, Ryo, Kensou, Kula, Athena, Daimon, Andy, Vice, Duo Lon, Leona
B+: Chin, Robert, Raiden, Joe
B: Terry, Maxima
King and Shen are very nice for any team since their BnB’s are extremely practical and quite damaging. Shen damage output is amazing even without meter. Kim’s HD combos are easy to perform and most of them are very damaging. Kim also has several anti-air options, including his DM and is pretty fast, inspite of building meter slowly. K’ moves down a little but he is still note worthy. Leona is probably one of the more dramatic changes. I used to main Leona (she is my pocket character now), because can fit into any position, though she requires a lot patience/planning and her defensive options are impeccable. Ash is now A- tier because he makes for a good battery and anchor character, and should the player utilize all of his tools - he can shut down the opponents meter and special move options completely and out zone them. Vice is in this tier because she has issues with meter-less defensive options and building meter. Duo Lon is in this tier because of his damage output (his most damaging normal beside a throw is 70), his HD combos are limited, and he can be predictable due to his somewhat limited move set, though he is still easily capable of catching opponents of guard and doing high damaging combos along with his crazy rush down game. Everything else is, more or less, the same. Now having said that, it is up to player to understand how to utilize these characters. This tier list might not be perfect and there could still be updates and other matters that might not have been spoken about much… But, this is the best I can do as of now. BTW… This fighting game is AWESOME as it is well-balanced. … And, now I’m going to collect data on Mature and post her “team tier placement” information as Havatchu invented.
I suggest Benimaru should go first, then Andy (because he is a good meter builder and his pressure for the most part is rather safe). Mature should be the anchor. She is awesome and she is rush-down goddess with many tricks up her sleeve! Mature can also cause a ludicrous amount of chip damage with a few of her specials as well. Beni does not need that much meter to be affective. Andy is a good battery character - a projectile, DP, and BEAUTIFUL cr.D, and decent meter-less combos. Should Mature have meter, she can beat the living hell out of the opponent. (I really love Mature rekka special moves).
Awesome man, thanks for giving credit for the format, as weak as it was, haha.
You should sign up for Dream Cancel if you aren’t already, it’s only 2 years old, but it’s nice. Lots of things there, I’m sure you’re aware, but it’s still a nice place.
Sadly, DCancel doesn’t have Mature framedata at this moment.
Oops. Kyo/Beni/Andy… Andy as an anchor is not really a bad idea, really. With meter, Andy is just evil. His Neo Max has priority over… EVERYTHING but it is completely unsafe should it be blocked. Any combination would work, but Andy builds meter the quickest. I would probably still put Andy in the middle. Kyo as a starter or anchor can work out pretty well because he has every tool available and he can build meter pretty quickly… but, the problem with that is, Kyo also spends meter quickly, too. I was about to say that Kyo can be the anchor since he can hit pretty hard. Unlike EX Kyo, he can cancel his df.D command moves into other special and is a perfect tool for HD combos. Kyo’s projectile should be used sparingly sense it is ground based (Andy’s projectile on the other hand is slightly better). Andy easily makes a very good battery character. Kyo’s best comboes might rely on him launching his opponent in the air, so it is best to know how to set your opponent up for that. Beni has a place in the anchor as well because his HD combo’s are rather easy for the most part and has a very fantastic move set. With a team like this, the player can get away with placing these characters in any position really. But, Andy should atleast be the middle character though.
You can either do this: Kyo/Andy/Beni or this: Beni/Andy/Kyo… either one of these might be trustworthy.
Did we ever speak about Vice…? Last I checked, she is a very tricky but fun character to play. A grappling character that I somehow forgot when talking to another player about their Raiden/Goro/Clark teams. I thought her EX moves and grappling set ups were nice.
Position 1: High tier
First thing is first - she has no command moves. But, this does not stop Mature from being the beast that she is. She is a offensive character and a rush-down character, much like Mr. Karate and Duo Lon… Mature one of the best cl.B moves in the game because it is a two hit combo and can cancel into other special moves. Mature can do pretty well without meter and she can build meter at a decent rate. Here, the player has easy access to BnB’s combos like j.C, cl.B, > qcbx3 A or C. The EX version of her Death Row (the rekka special) does five hits and the player can rake up a serious amount of damage this way. The player can close the opponent down using qcfhcb. A or C then DP.A - after then you try to use a jump in to option select throw/throw tech or a cross-up or block and punish with another BnB combo. Last, Mature can cancel her Metal Massacre into her Super moves. If the opponents wants to block, then they are still in trouble sense she’s kind of like Iceman from MVC2 - lots and lots of chip damage. Here, you can either save meter while using safe pokes and punish combos then rushing the opponent down, trimming their options - or you can go wild with EX moves and all if your second character is someone like Athena or Kyo… Her HD combos are easily accessible and damaging too: j.C, cl.B, HD activation, cl.B, QCB.Ax2, HCB.B, QCB.Ax2, HCB.B,
Or cl.B, HD activation, cl.B, QCBx3 > Heaven’s Gate > Neo Max for a easy yet damaging HD combo for 2 stocks. The player can continue their assault during HD mode and then do Heavan’s Gate > Neo Max to maximize their damage.
Battery: Mid tier. She might do good in this category too… Heaven’s Gate has projectile invincibility it can work as a good counter attack against zoners and can be comboed into. Mature plays the same role as she did in the first position, but only having four meters available. The problem is that she might be spending meter as well in this position. She may have good meter-less combos but as a meter builder, Mature can benefit more from characters like Kula or Yuri. Mature should probably be played a little more cautiously in this position, though she can easily make a good battery character because of her great offensive game.
Anchor: High tier. Mature is a very good anchor and has a lot of comeback potential. The thing is, Mature has many tools available. Projectile and her DP > A or C can be used as preemptive anti-airs and has nice priority. The EX version come out automatic and does a nice 140 damage and the player can do a reset and continue a good mix-up or option select block punish or throw. Her Neo Max counts as an overhead too, so the player can probably use her HD activation for mix-up purposes and then use her Neo Max (the player can free cancel their moves even if the opponent is blocking while in HD mode). Mature can use her moves, trimming the opponents life away nicely and then set up for a crouching guard. Also, after a counter blow back attack, Mature can whiff cancel into her Neo Max as well. Mature st.C comes out very quickly as well, especially after her rekka combos or her Metal Massacre. A good HD combo would be something like this… j.C, st.C, (HD) st.C, [qcb+Px3 (7)]x3, qcfx2+P, qcb hcf+AC as a nice finisher. It does not take that much meter to do a serious amount of damage, which is why she should be put in this position or the first position while other character can back her up. Mature is very nice against zoners and defensive players because she can blow them up quickly and she has a nice set of block strings and chip damage. The player can make a win/win situation if they consistently make good reads.
Here’s Mai. (For some odd reason she is extremely underrated).
Starter: Mid tier. If the player is putting Mai in this position, they are telling one of the three things: 1): They’re going to zone the shit out of me. Or 2): Other characters benefit from her so they will play her as if she were a battery character instead with only three meters. Or 3): They are noobs. Mai CAN do well with just three meters (it would only take one drive guage to produce 381 damage with this: (corner combo) s.C, hcf+K (2hits), [DC] air.qcb+C, qcb+C, air throw.
Also she can use cr.C to reset her opponent after a EX HCF > K or her EX DM because she has a lot of time after the move. Her normal moves are very awesome and it is very easy to play keep away. Her Musasabi no Mai (d charge u > P) helps her get around the field more and she can cancel that into her command move which also has good priority as an air to air move but is not safe on block unless you are aiming towards the opponent feet. The Musasabi no Mai can also be utilized after the opponent guards her Kanchousen (projectile). Mai also moves very fast, much like Duo Lon does, but her jumping angles are extremely… funny. She easily exposed anti-airs this way so her jumps might takes some getting used to. Last, Mai can corner cross-up from her throw attack if she throw her opponent into the corner (King and Mai are the only character who can do this. Whether this is a glitch or not is up to people’s interpretation) Her command normal air d.B can beat certain anti-airs as well. It is also important to keep in mid that she can control air-to-air combat because of her (albeit weird) high jump arcs. This position is not recommended and there are better characters who fill the role of the starter character.
Battery: High tier. Mai is probably one of the best battery characters. Mai’s pokes and normals are monstrous. Mai is also basically the corner goddess of this game. Her mid-screen combos are not damaging at all but the player can push the opponent towards the corner. Mai’s diving Musasabi is not safe on guard and neither is her HCF > B or C unless it is the EX version. She can played in many methods including keep away, meter builder, or pressure (like Adel used to). Mai also has one of the best Neo Max’s in the game. She can cancel her st.A into her QCB.C as well and her st.A has very good range and priority. Her EX Kanchousen can easily catch others off guard as well. Her HD combo for 2 meters is extremely dangerous as well and it does not require much effort to accomplish either if the player simply zones or drags the opponent right back into the corner. Her normals and her speed give her a good advantage and she can just hop over every projectile, except Mature’s for obvious reasons and she has a wall jump, all of which can be used for an air-throw, d.B, cross-up, or her dive. A lot of her EX specials leave the opponent in a juggle state. For one stock, Mai can score an easy 436 damage for cr.B, cr.B, cr.A, qcb+AC, qcb+C, qcb+C, qcb+C, Air Throw.
For two stock HD combos Mai can do this: j.C, s.C, [HD] s.D, hcf D [2hits], [HDC] air.qcb C, hcf D [2hits], [HDC] qcb C, hcf B [1hit], [HDC] qcb A, (hcf D [2hits], [HDC] qcb C) x2, qcb C, Ex qcb~hcf+ K which equals 769 damage. Mai’s Kanchousen can cancel into her Neo Max as well. Mai’s high jump arcs are still key to her game too because she falls down quickly and she can easily bait others into anti-airing her for Mai use a punish combo. It gets worse for the opponent if she has one super meter ready and if they are in the corner. Mai can also reset her opponent after her EX DM and continue her assault this way or bait the now standing opponent. It is simple to drag the opponent into the corner with cr.B, cr.A > link cr.C, to her HCF.B > QCBHCF.B OR just cl.C, HCF.B, > QCBHCF.B (if Mai is in HD mode she Max cancel for over 600 dmg.) Mai has a lot of options for HD combos. Mai tends gets really weak under pressure, so using her normals, Guard Cancels, and her keep away game will help her a lot
Anchor: High Mid tier. Mai’s midscreen combos aren’t very damaging, but most of them involve her pushing the opponent away from her. As said before, Mai has a lot of how low mix-ups, especially from j.C and her chain cancelable A and B moves. Mai’s cross up j.D might be good but not as good as j.B. Mai can still use her ground Musasabi no Mai and then cancel that into her air d.B command move can also be cancelled into her dive special. Like Leona, Mai can dominate in the mid-air as well especially thanks to her d.B, her cross-up j.C, and her air throw. For good keep-away she can also use her blow back attack and whiff cancel it into her projectile and then use her ground Musasabi no Mai to propel herself forward for cross-ups block strings or option select throws/throw techs (her Kanchousen causes a huge guard stun like most projectile do). Mai can also chain combo B>D should the opponent what a hit confirm into an HD combo. The reason why she is a bit lower in this category because as a battery character Claw Iori or Ash could help her out big time as anchors when she gets KO. This position is also not recommended but the only reason she is still high mid in this position is because Mai is one vindictive bitch thanks to her corner juggles, keep away, and her Neo Max. For 908 dmg Mai can just use [FONT=times new roman]j[/FONT].C, s.C, [HD] s.D, hcf D [2hits], [HDC] air.qcb P, hcf D [2hits], [HDC] qcb C, hcf B [1hit], [HDC] qcb C, qcb C, Ex qcb~hcf +K DM, [MC] qcf~hcb +AC Neo Max. Without any stock, if the second character should not save meter is something like this… j.C, s.C, [HD] s.D, hcf D, [HDC] air.qcb C, hcf D [2hits], [HDC] qcb C, hcf B [1hit], [HDC] qcb C, (hcf D [2hits], [HDC] qcb C) x2, qcb C, air throw for 659 damage.
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Here are two sample’s based on my post-EVO list: The first one is, more-or-less, the exact same as the one I posted earlier. Changes are bound to occur, due to the fact that the game is not even a year old.
This list is much more difficult to summarize, due to the fact that each character may fit into two categories (high tier, low tier, well-rounded, and having faults). I try to be as accurate as possible, but changes will occur should something else be discovered. Once again these are all based on the EVO event, various tournament inputs, information from other KOF XIII players, and personal tournament/online experiences. Those who have more insight on a specific character from other tourney’s should make corrections here.
One of the things that interests me is people’s opinions on Claw and EX Iori. I often see people put Claw in their S tier despite his considerably weaker oki game, poorer reversal/anti-air options and lack of zoning compared to EX. People see “OMG 100% DAMAGE” and lose they minds without realizing damage isn’t everything (or the fact that Flame can 100% too).
Pro-tip: there’s a reason 90% of Ioris at EVO were EX (and it’s not just because of classic familiarity).
Understood. The only thing that confuses me the most is Duo Lon’s, Leona’s, Ash’s, Saiki’s, and EX Iori’s placement.
EX Iori needs to be… somewhere in the high tier area. I just don’t know WHERE exactly? S tier? A tier? EX Iori has a viable fire ball, a rekka special, a very nice DP, and has the ability to OTG his opponent. Damage is important but so are the tools. It is true that I did not see too many noteworthy EX Iori’s (familiarity plays a role here too, but this is not KOF 98 anymore, unfortunately). Leona was switched to A tier, because at her best, she can REALLY beat the crap out of the opponent. The same can said for Duo Lon, especially if he is in the first position and even he has a lot of useful tools (in spite of his limited move set). The reason why EX Iori should be placed somewhere on the high tier is because he can do a good amount of damage with the tools he his. Leona is very good for defensive purposes and attacking with her requires planning and precision (much like Yuri does for more damaging combos, but Yuri can also get away with a lot more than just that kind of game play for obvious reasons).
Recently, EX Iori became my pocket characters and I am likely to play him either the first position or anchor should some other event pop up where I live. To speak a little more about Ash and Saiki… Ash and Saiki are some of the best zoners (along with Athena, Joe, and perhaps Takuma). Ash could make for a good battery and anchor character, because with four meters at his disposal, Ash can shut down the opponent completely, but he suffers the same problems as Mai does: Ash’s damage potential comes from the corner and he needs the corner dish out a maximized combo. Saiki on the other has probably THE best projectile in the game because it has really huge hit box. It does travel too quickly or too slow and Saiki can EASILY follow up with an attack - teleports? Check. Multiple anti-airs? Check. Fairly quick? Check. DM Command grab? CHECK! This is just the tip of the ice berg for Saiki, therefore he needs a place up in the higher tiers as well.
Does any have a little more input on Ash, Saiki, and Leona? Enough could be said about Duo Lon and EX Iori, but feel free to elaborate on their tier placement, too. And, we should also make use of Havatchu’s format, because I find it probably one of the best ways to judge a character by their tier placement. The format is also part of the reason why my tier list changed a little after EVO because it just seems like a great idea. The fact that you can select the order of your characters based on match ups or tools before the fight is a big helping.
Please. EVO top 8 and top 16 had major showings of EX Iori. You call that not doing well? When people go to EVO they go there to win. If Claw was better than EX people would be playing him instead especially since he’s a straight forward character with less executional requirements than EX.
The only thing Claw has over EX are resets, drive saving and a faster overhead. Claw can reset a lot later than Flame (note that Flame can also reset), but like I said, he has much less oki opportunities, is easily countered by zoners and his reversal sucks in comparison.
EX is a much more well rounded version of the character with all the same normals (except overhead) and he gets a hard knockdown after every single BnB. You know when Claw gets a hard knockdown? When he lands a super. Do you see how important the oki game is now? How important counter-zoning is when you’re against a barrage of Kings, Takumas, etc.?
Both Ioris are A/A+ tier, but Flame is (IMO) much better for every situation than Claw.
Saiki is A/A+ tier as well. He can 100% off 3 meters/full drive and he has amazing normals which are all cancellable. Cl.C anti-airs, d.C anti-airs, qcf+C anti-airs, one of his DMs anti-airs, and he has position reversing DPs (great for putting opponents in the corner) for anti-air. He is an extremely difficult character to approach while still maintaining a solid ability to rushdown and deliver damage. His far D has great range, moves him forward, is invulnerable to lows and it frametraps. He can do the same shit in the air. He also has some silly and very fun stand-alone teleport gimmicks that aren’t used by many people. He is honestly a character I can’t find many weaknesses in. Or any for that matter. Maybe a lack of a screen-travelling EX fireball? And short hitconfirms? That’s about it though. He is AWESOME.
Ash is … idk. He has the potential to be a great character off Guile-fundamentals alone, but he requires ridiculous meter consumption and execution to deliver damage. He has some of the most time consuming combos in the game which I guess can help him burn the clock, but that also means you can’t fuck up during those seemingly unending (and quite complex) combos or else you cripple yourself. It’s extremely hard to get in on him for much the same reasons as Saiki. He has mostly the same normals but better maneuverability than Saiki because of his forward and back command normals. His qcb+P is also really good at protecting himself during his zoning game. He’s a bit like a more annoying Orochi Shermie. He just has to… work a lot harder for the damage. He’s not a bad character, but you gotta be committed, and don’t drop them combos. I would put him in mid-low tier.
Leona is a sick character that people underestimated since release because of that stupid Bala/Romance tier list. She can mixup really well because of her overhead (which is a hard knockdown stand alone), has great low pokes, great standing normals, great hit confirms, you can’t cross her up because of EX Moon Slasher, an instant overhead into specials/DMs, great space control with Baltic Launcher, she’s fast as hell and she can threaten a DM anytime you leave the ground or try to counter Earring Bakuden. Her only failing is a lack of combo options outside of HD, but she still has some. She is solid mid tier, no lower than that.
Claw Iori and OG Iori are two different characters. Claw wants to get in setup frame traps and create pressure to crack your defense and he has the speed to do so and he hits like a steamroller. He’s the “rtsd” archetype and he capitalizes off of every hit that not many in the characters can match and has great blockstrings.* OG Iori is more well rounded “jack of all trades” type of character. He can zone, he can control space and he can apply solid pressure. I heard someone describe him as “You don’t beat ex Iori you beat the player using ex Iori” and I think that’s pretty apt since he’s designed to have no glaring flaws… In contrast with Claw who is a monster up close but sometimes have trouble getting in but even then his ex qcb k is fast, gets him in and he’s neutral on block.
Basically it comes down to weather you think OG Iori having minimal flaws overweight just how strong Claw Iori is at executing his gameplan. I personally think Claw Iori toolset is stronger in this type of game than EX Iori’s well roundness. Plus it doesn’t help OG’s case that 13 Kyo is built in a similar way but his zoning game isn’t as strong as Ex Iori’s but in return he hits way harder and he’s considered top 5 by most people. *Either way they’re both really great characters designed for different style of play which they are potent in.
A bit of a late reply but whatever ;). Actually the Raijinken loop guarantees death, not 500+. [media=youtube]tJbS52VHFKE[/media] . My friend (who made the vid) is getting pretty consistand with it (i would say at around 70ish % atm) so i have no doubt that its possible to use it as a staple as long as you put some serious practice in ^^. I mean there are plenty of hard combos in other games that people use as staples, ROM in mvc2 etc.
IMO learning this is what gets Beni a guaranteed spot in the top5. His damage goes from great to insane, and combined with all his other stuff it is just too much.
