Actually, I think Ash being in the bottom 5 is the one of the few things I agree with from Karou. He has very low damage output without using meter. Sans-culottes actually costs two meters to use with Ash, and if you land the full combo with it, it does about 330 or so damage ending the the super that locks meter usage for the opponent. I’d say the two best things Ash has going for him are his normals and the fireball. The fireball has really fast recovery, so you can play the classic Guile game of throwing a fireball and waiting to anti-air. I think damage is what is holding Ash back the most, it’s just weak.
Hmmm…interesting to say the least, i mean Ryo is solid, after watching Reynald’s Ryo i’ve been trying to play a little bit more with him, and he is solid, definitely solid, but Top Tier…above characters like Shen or Claw Iori? i don’t think so. Kim is solid too, but he suffers a lot against zoners, reason enough to not be top tier, again, you have to ask if he is above Shen or Claw? Daimon can be a royal pain in the ass with his grabs and ridiculous normals but i don’t think he is that good, IMO Clark is a better grappler. Maxima…well, i really would like to know his reasons to put Maxima as top. Mr. Karate is a given, he is really good. Also, no Claw Iori? no regular Kyo? no Shen?
About his bottom choices…well, Elizabeth have some problems, but i don’t think she is that “bad”, IMO she is low mid, Ash well, i don’t know much about him, but he can be a pain with meter and good position, again low mid for me, Mature? c’mon, she is at least mid high, maybe even top tier, K’ and Kensou? ok, now he is just trolling.
To be fair, he is a top Japanese player which it means he is probably a better player than 95% of the entire population and i would love to hear his reasons, i’m also agree with the fact that the game has so many unknown techniques…still, i’m not agree with most of his choices.
Command counter. T+B is a high parry (counters jump ins too) and downfoward+B is a low parry.
I think it’s just that Clark is a more versatile player, you can really put the pressure on the other player with his charge punch move. Him and Raiden are probably the best grapplers/big guys for this reason. Just an opinion.
Nope, that’s Mexico, it’s pretty much the only 2D fighting game they had for the longest time because Capcom wouldn’t ship their cabinets there.
It’s all they know, in terms of 2D. Not sure about 3D.
I guess we’ll see for sure at Evo.
That’s a little unfair, in fact KOF was extremely popular even with games like SF3, MvC2 and SFA, i mean the series just got really popular here, it had nothing to do with Capcom, i remember when KOF96 and Marvel Super Heroes where new games, there was even a line to play KOF96 but Marvel wasn’t that popular, similar thing happened with KOF 98 and SF3.
BOTTOM TIER: Leona.
Nop, if anything low mid, i’m willing to say there aren’t Bottom tiers in this game.
Leona’s probably mid tier. She’s pretty fucking scary if she has 1-2 bars. You jump at her when she jumps or if she jumps in and you hit a button to AA she can do that air super and nail you. She’s got solid footsies, overhead into massive damage, and she can zone. Funny thing is that she kinda’ counters Hwa. If Hwa is in Drunk mode you know how you can just D SRK through any projectile at mid-range? It doesn’t work on Leona at all. She can still zone with her projectiles unless she does it right next to Hwa but there’s no reason to ever do that.
That’s a damn lie. The only SF game arcade cabinets that were never shipped here were the Sf4/AE ones.
I can confirm myself that the SF2, SFA and SF3 as well as the VS snk and marvel series were all released here in the form of arcade versions/cabinets.
I’m only repeating what I heard.
Well they were telling many lies that day.
I mean the myth about Mexico being one of KOF’s biggest markets isn’t far fetched, and you can find KOF arcade cabinets EVERYWHERE (movie teathers, etc) but it’s not the only fighting game we play. KOF, SF and MK are equally popular.
Good to know, nice to get some 3rd party perspective.
So far, this is the best tier list I have seen online. Here are some questions:
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Why are Karate and Hwa rated so much higher than the A+ tier? While it seems common knowledge that Karate is the best in the game, I was under the impression that he was not that far ahead of the other top tiers, which I thought included Hwa, both Ioris, Kyo and Beni.
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Shen is arguably the most popular anchor character in the game, what keeps him out of A+ tier? As anchor (usually with a lot of meter), he effectively can’t be zoned, and his rushdown is frightening.
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K’ seems to be falling out of favor, do you still think he belongs in high-mid tier?
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Does evo change your opinion on Chin and Ash?
Honestly, EVO mind fucked me so much that I think the entire competitive community needs to reevaluate where all of the characters stand in this game. The more we learn, the more we realize that we’re ALL barely scratching the surface of the meta game.
I am still waiting for a top player to learn lightningloops with Beni in order to cement his spot as #1 ;). Anyway I am very positively surprised by the balance in this game, it feels hard just to think up a solid top5. That being said, beni, karate, hwa, duolon feel the most solid to me. The last spot has a lot of candidates tho. kyo shen ioris etc all feel like they would fit :). Anyway, coming from a Tekken background it feels great finally playing a 2D game where pretty much the whole cast feels viable ^^
I still think the best character is Kyo, not by a lot though. Hwa, Karate, Iori, and Benimaru are all up there too. I think Shen is SLIGHTLY overrated. I think Billy could be tops as well as he is an insane point character. Kim also keeps impressing me more and more.
Game is ridiculously balanced though. Even those top 5 I named will all get bopped by a better player with a Ralf/Ryo/Takuma/any other character. The only characters that i think are really lacking are Mai and Maxima but they are far from unusable.
I’ve been working on those in HD with MaxCancels and shiz. He can do it all day. So many options.
No top player does Raijinken loop because of the risk of dropping it in the corner. Raijinken loop guarantees 500+ damage but just a simple 214+Cx2 into Laido Kick is about 490 Damage with VERY minimal risk which is still good.
Shen is indeed overrated. However, any character that can low profile(as in, do a normal and make their hurtbox small) his jump CD can beat him. Once Shen can’t do jump in doing CD it frustrates him and most shen players try to play defense. Shen is not dangerous when he plays defense unless he has 2 bars because you can bait him out pretty easily and he cannot cancel his 2C unless it confirms so it’s a free blowup is he whiffs it.
Kim is getting overrated because people don’t know how to deal with Kim. Kim is heavy on Oki. Take that away from him and he is decent on offense with a pretty good defense. I will tell you right now how to beat Kim. Use mid hitting attacks. If he does far 5D, a 2A from you will stuff it so hard and it is punishable. 2A also beats EX Hagetsuzan(Bala stuffed it during his Takuma comeback in GF at EVO against MADKof). This is where things get interesting. The Kim player has to adapt and start jumping to punish 2A or he will get blown up everytime. About 70% of Kim players do NOT play safe. Start stuffing their 5D and see what happens… random shit will happen and you will have the match in the bag.
Billy is hard to play with and has some awful matchups against EX Kyo, Saiki, and Mr.K(omit Mr.K, about half the cast is a bad matchup against Mr.K lol). I have been trying to learn Billy since almost day 1 since I played him in KOF2002 but its not the same. At his highest potential, he is high tier but still not top 5.
Kyo is overall best character because you cannot go wrong with him. He goes anywhere on a team and does his job, at the same time building meter and has stupid good mixup.
Hwa is overrated IMO. He is top 10 in the game but top 5? Far from it. Clark dumps on Hwa really bad thanks to airgrab, so does Beni, Ryo, and Claw Iori. Hwa has really bad matchups and people do not understand that his slide is punishable(even if he cancels into Dragon Tail a 5C will beat it cleanly) and if Hwa drinks outside a string he is very unsafe and punishable. If you know the drunk slide >Dragon Tail mixup is coming, JUMP. You can actually alternate guard from 4174 on your stick so if he cancels into dragon tail you can just jump D or C it and if he goes low you will block it. Since you are alternate guarding, no fear a JAGGA BACKBREAKAH, which does 380 damage when he is drunk iirc.
Actually, I think I said this before but I really want to make a matchup tier list because thats the only way to really understand how balanced the game is. However, 36 characters means we need 35 matchups per character(not including mirrors). I’ll have to do 1,260 matchups if my math serves me right. That is not possible just by myself and I don’t think anyone will be doing it anytime soon.
I still stand by how I created my tier list a while back. I don’t think anything has changed from it.
In terms of combos ,his Raijinken is good for midscreen damage, especially into his 2Xqcf Raijinken DM, plus I’m sure there are plenty of ways to extend with EX Collider as well.
I’m thinking something along the lines of EX Collider, sandou-geri, raijinken, sandou-geri, Raijinken DM.
Let me digress a bit.
How does everyone feel about this? Kyo/Beni/Andy, Beni/Kyo/Andy , Beni/Andy/Kyo
Also, Mature/Beni/Andy Beni/Andy/Mature and lastly Beni/Mature/Andy.
What do you guys think is the best order of both teams?