KOF XI Thread :: Ver 2.0

i’ve been using duo lon since day 1 and i can honestly say that duo lon is not that good. he dies to some character for free and that alone makes him B class and/or below.

his LDM is not bad, but theres a lot of LDMs that are just as good, if not better.

i still cant see it being used like genei jin/V-ism because

  1. unlike 3s, theres alpha counters in this game

  2. the playing field is huge.

  3. the duration is pretty short compared to genei jin/v-ism for the meter it takes. it can last longer but you’ll have to be pressing buttons. pressing nothing shortens it dramatically.

  4. doesnt air juggle like genei jin/v-ism/a-groove, only ground juggles

that being said, you cant just walk up, activate and expect good things to happen

without qs, the only practical way to land his ldm is off his qcf+lp, f+lk, qcb+hp rekka. the biggest problem with this is that it only combos off point blank. add in a c.lk before you do c.lp into the chain, the qcb+hp whiffs completely.

i’m sure close hp into d/f+hk into ldm works too, but you can see that setup a mile away.

so to sum it up, the only practical way to land his LDM is off a high hit or a QS.

other LDMs are much easier to land, although it might do slightly less. oswald, K’ and kim’s ldm juggle off anything. you can anti air them (or even trade), then do ldm and it’ll still connect. sure it might not do as much damage but its certainly more versatile. gato’s ldm doesnt scale and can be dream cancelled from his kick or punch super. not to mention its safe on block and crushes your guard majority of the time. its definitely possible to roll out but you have to be anticipating it first.

duo lons biggest strength and weaknesses in order

+ c.lp of doom, and to an extent, c.lk.

no other character has as much range as his c.lp. its fast, its abusable, its bufferable, it chains to itself, it links off c.lk easily. whats more to be said? this move fucks up people that abuses rolls good.
**

  • sets up qs combos really well and finishes qs combos really well.**
    his rekkas sets up tag combos really well for the incoming character. since he has the c.lp of doom, he should have no problem setting one up. when coming in from a qs, j.hp into qcf+lp, f+lk, qcb+hp, c.lp, qcf+px3 will always connect and does pretty good damage

+ really good mixup game off his teleport and to a lesser extent, dive kicks and command grab
although hes been dramatically weakened from kof2k3. his rushdown game is pretty good.

+ 100% LDM.
not gonna deny that he can kill anyone in one combo off his LDM, but other things are more important
**
-no reliable anti air**

the best anti air he has is lp, e and the phantom wall super (hcbx2+p). all of it are pretty spotty and situational. that being said, he dies to a few characters for free because he has no way to get them off of him. in 2k3, he can just teleport out of their opponents jump in or phantom wall super since that move had complete invincibility back then.
**
-does little damage without meter or qs**

without meter or tag combos his rekkas does shit damage hands down.
**
-doesnt build meter well on his own**

since he was overpowered in kof2k3 like malin and ash, he couldnt build meter on his own by whiffing. you’ll be lucky to build even one bar while gato builds like 3.
**
-cant qs out of any of his supers, shitty dreamcancel.**

it would be great to qs out of his phantom wall or even kick (ground) super, but unfortunately you cant. so while you chip your opponent for like 5% with the phantom wall, prepare to eat the fattest combo your opponent has dished up since duo lon will just stand there like an idiot. (you could ss out but thats a waste of two skill bars). he has the most useless dream cancel in the game. (phantom wall into ldm) once you dream cancel, the opponent will be knocked too far back for you to follow up with anything. no big deal anyways, since the only useful dreamcancel is gato and maybe silvers.
**

  • really bad hard ground normals.**

his hp and hk on the ground are pretty shitty. slow coming out and slow to recover. doesnt matter too much, his hard ground normals weren’t too good to begin with in the first place

anyways, my rankings:

the “l” next to their name means they are significantly better when used as leader, if not, they drop one rank down

SSS: gato(l)
SS: kula
S: eiji, oswald(l), kim, clark
A: duck, ralf, K’, ash, maxima
B: jenet, jazu, kyo, ryo, kensou, adel(l), duo lon(l), gai
C: malin, shen, ramon, yuri, terry, elizabeth(l), silver, vanessa, benimaru, iori
D: athena(l), king, kasumi, tizok, b. mary,
E: whip, shingo(l), hayate

Wow we got a lot to talk about…

With his cr. lp of doom thats why if I am going to kill the opponent I dont add cr. lk to it…all there is to it. I’m going for the touch of death with him…

Do you all agree with these Tier Rankings? Discuss!!!

GameStop website has this being release on 11/23 :rolleyes:

if you dont use c.lk, the opponent needs to only block high and it’ll be hard to land the LDM.

i can almost get the same results with c.lk, c.lp, qcf+px2, qs into gato, j.hp, c.hp dp+e x3 for like 80%. its not 100% but sure is close.

That is true I know you can block it high…but that just means I can bait the opponent to making the mistake…

A deadly way to playing Duo Lon IMO…bait them into roll…bait them into fucking up…then THERES GOES THEIR LIFE Bye bye…

:devil:

all that theory is fine and all but… in the practice, he owns and his leader is mortal, u can mixup when u r in it and its an unstoppable combo, think in vism with kofs short jump

and its assures u the fight when the time is about to end

u can also get it in after one error of the opponent

and dont forget the mixups

without his leader hes very good… jump e is anti air, and anti early jump, standing weak punch is one of the only anti airs he has but its damn good, gato cant jump at u twice if u use it, standing weak kick is good, his mixups with pokes and teleport are very good, pressures, and can surprise from far

for those situations when u need to take ur opponent out, i use counter of e

if i have him with leader of course im not going to put him first so he enters with bar already filled to do his leader, if he doesnt have leader he builds bar fine, that just depends of ur ability

oswalds crouching weak punch is longer… haha, u r thinking 2 much like 2003

his basic combos but with his mixup, he gets together much damage very quick

he doesnt need to quickshift out of his supers

standing strong punch is actually useful after u are out of range for standing weak kick

dun forget standing e, dun forget it boy… advice…

i know oswalds c.lp is just as long, but what can he combo off of it from max range? joker ldm?

True but Ourobourus TheOrgy explains precisely the tools I use with DL…

Like I say One FUCKUP and you just lost all your life…

The modern Japanese tier list has always been the one I’ve most agreed with.

Although I would make a few minor adjustments, because I agree with Ouroboros that some characters improve SIGNIFICANTLY with their LDM.

S+ tier ~ Gato, Kula

S-tier ~ Oswald(L), Eiji, Duck, Clark, Oswald (non-L), Hayate*

A-tier ~ K’, Maxima, Ralf, Kyo, Kim

B+tier ~ Jenet, Terry, Jyazu, Shen, Gai

B-tier ~ Duo Lon(L), Ryo, Vanessa, Silber, Kensou, Ash, Malin(L), Athena(L)

C-tier ~ Iori, Duo Lon(non-L), Adelheid, Benimaru, Elisabreasts, Malin(non-L), Shingo(L)

D+tier ~ Yuri, Ramon, Whip, Shingo(non-L), Kasumi

D-tier ~ Mary, King, Griffon, Athena (non-L), Hayate*

E-tier ~Momoko

I’ve tried to play Duo Lon A LOT, but that leader is really the only thing going for him.

Other than his leader, the supers don’t do any damage, and you basically have to waste a dot to land them regardless. The priority on cr.A isn’t that good, and as mentioned before, his heavy normals are way too slow. With his command throw being as slow and as short as it is, and with no overhead, you can block all day and then react to the throw.

He’s not that bad and fun to use, but he loses for free to Gato, Clark, Kula, etc. You don’t have any reason to roll against him because he has nothing good to keep you out really. I’ve had some success with anti-air E, but in most cases it’s not worth it. With all the tools he has it’s hard to keep offense because of their speed.

He doesn’t really build meter well either. The problem I have with him as leader is simply that there are much better leaders with much more versatile LDMs. You basically have to have at least a character lead on the opponent for him to be an effective leader. Whereas on the other hand, Gato L can murk 3 characters on his own.

Gato, Clark and Kula do give him problems…but you have to adjust…I still believe by far he is A Class…

Like I say still though…you all dont know what its like to make ONE mistake and lose your life…from a strategy standpoint…

I’ll take the hits from Gato, Kula, Clark etc…

But when I get that one hit YOU’RE DONE…

Thats the mentality…

Sorry Dark Geese, I’m not agreeing. DL Leader is B at most. And I understand where you are coming from, DL is fun as all fuck, but the other characters are just that much better. In a one on one match, I’ll put DL at the top without blinking, but the team is where he gets fucked. Everyone remember this, you can SS out of DL’s Genei Jin. If you couldn’t, then maybe I’d give him a high B, but still no higher. He’s too meter dependent. And I say B. Jenet and Ash are A tier. And, I’m still putting Kula on the top because she doesn’t need to be leader to do leader damage, dumb fucking lvl 2 super, what kinda shit is that.

As was said, how much meter and stocks (not to mention time) do you need to kill someone off of just one hit with DL? Even still, there’s still 2 other team members, and without meter DL is just average.

With the same amount of meter and stocks, Gato can do like 80-90% damage and a whole bunch of judgement sway in like 3 seconds. Plus he’s still just as much of a threat without that meter.

I’m not saying DL is better than Gato, because he aint…but for the touch of death with DL I only really need 2 meters…maybe B at best for DL…I can agree to that…but he surely aint C Class where you all got him…thats for damn sure!!!

Duo Lon is B Class I guess for now.

Yes you can SS out of it… but thats still two meters…(tag bars) meaning you wont have that all the time…meaning the chance will happen when you do not have that tag meter…then you are fucked…

I will show you all a lot of this at NEC8…**get ready… **:lovin:

Well, the way I see it, you’ll never use DL as non-leader, so with that, I’ll leave him at B. Next Evo, we gotta get some matches in. I live in Vegas, so being there isn’t such as issue. I was having some health problems this past year so I missed your tourney, sorry man. Come August though, I should be all good.

Randomlama…good shit man…well I actually see some people in casuals use him without Leader…but yeah I agree if he is in your team you gotta have him Leader…after all…Kula and Gato are good enough on their own…

Hence for my real team Duo Lon gets the Leader treatment…Kula and Gato dont really need it…

Kula Gato are fine without leader as long as they are on the same team. None of this changes the fact that Leader Gato is still the best character in the game.

Totally agree with you there…

It saddens me to say it because i love playing her, but Whip is the worst character in the game :shake: she and Hayate should have an own tier below the rest. Still i think every character in the lower tiers is valuable if they fit your style, there’s a lot of crazy D/E tier action going on out there.

Whoa I didn’t know you could SS Duo Lon’s leader. That makes that shit wack. There’s no way he will ever be A then, solely because of the system.

…Especially vs. teams with characters that don’t need skill stocks to combo into super. I don’t ever foresee a Duo Lon (L) team beating Kula, Clark, Gato (L) if played right. :chat: