That was fucking beast…makes me want to try out MI again.
I really like billy, he is my first character. He seems pretty high on the tier list, but i’m still working out strats with him. He is great against people with no fireball.
at around 2:14, is that an infinite? sure looks like one.
it’s not an infinite, it’s a corner loop. eventually you’ll reach the hit limit and they’ll be able to tech. the best usage for the loop is to end it with orochinagi like the player does, the damage is impressive and you get free mixup off of the knockdown in the corner.
yes they made kyo into sol badguy. >_>
dang, thats intense stuff. Kyo’s gotta be top tier for sure.
Kyo is at least A tier, but Kula still beats him out (much like she does against everyone)
Oh great XD, the one person I spend the least time on. Sorry but I can’t exactly help you as I first thought.
okay hopefully this will prompt some definitive discussion so we can start to narrow down what’s really good in this game.
tier list. PLEASE TAKE THIS WITH A GRAIN OF SALT, the game is still really early and preliminary tiering is bound to have errors as the game has had no real major tournament showing yet. hopefully after ECC / NEC we’ll have gotten some assistance ( dark geese? ) in having the numbers come out for the game and people will start to see what works and doesn’t work in competitive play.
having said that:
s class:
xiaolon- safe teleport game, multitude of stance mixup, painful otg bnb, ridiculous rushdown
kyo- painful high low / overhead / knockdown to otg game, takes you to the wall for his corner loop, the reload sol of the game
wild wolf / terry - his command brakes make his strings safe and helps him put the pressure on, his burn knuckle juggles hurt a LOT, plus he has deadly rave now that he can brake to do more damage for free - potentially a xiaolon counter
luise - still too good to be underestimated even though she was toned down from MI2- 3D air sidestep IAD is way too good for overhead crossups, her supers framekill a LOT of normals and specials especially the command grab one where she twirls and laughs ( SO hard to get away from )
mr karate - got even BETTER than MI2 - his unblockable game is harder to predict now, plus he got takuma’s multiknee command throw to tick into - giant fireball game, instant counter super takes like 70 percent life
lien - unblockable game is ridiculously good now, command grab that paints a target on you is too good- her command flip has a ton of options, makes her like v-gouki and combined with her laser setups it’s like she gets free aegis reflectors
kim / chae lim - these two can punish you harder with one super stock than any other character in the game and they put you in the corner on wakeup for free where they can start phoenix cancel mindgames
richard / soiree - these two are now equals in that their mixup games are almost perfect, they can go high or low at a whim for knockdown or overhead, they can super through a lot of bs too, they only seem to have problems with autoguard
ash - at one hit confirm ash can put you in the air for free and you’re gonna have problems with his fireball game, he can be played rushdown or keepaway, a multitude of ways. his dhalsim like air drill and flipkick are good components to his hyperhop game to help him get in and his fireballs are stupidly good at keeping people out, also his old Leader super has insane combo potential midscreen or corner, he’s so versatile its nuts
a class
billy - still has the best normals in the game, you can rarely get near him without a struggle and if he’s smart he’ll kick you right back out or mix you up before you can land anything useful. DO NOT JUMP AT HIM IF HE HAS TWO METERS, he will make your life hell
iori - really good priority, D,C,D, hcb+k, he has a million ways to put you sky high. his two meter blood mode is still ridiculously good at dishing out damage, on top of that fast or slow double fireballs give him good keepout options
kula - always good in every kof game, lol. sadly the new snowman drop move has so much recovery that there aren’t many good setups for it, i’ve knocked people down and set up one to drop only to have the snowman trade with their wakeup C and hit me.
yuri - her chou knuckle loop makes her scary when fighting her midscreen, one screwup and over half your life is gone.
b.jenet - didn’t seem to change at all from MI2, stupidly fast fireball, qcfx2P is remininscent of Ken’s Shippu in 3S with comparable damage output and ease of hit confirm. i still like standing Bx3 df+B xx qcb+C, f+B( or D i think? doing this off my head ) d+D dp+D or super midscreen
leona - that damn exploding earring, double slice launcher is good, charge up slicey ball thing that she can volleyball you with and the command followup almost always puts you in the corner, the list goes on - i don’t really play her but i can see what makes her good
alba- his damage output is insane, and three kaiser waves cant be ignored in a game like this- as time goes on i see him heading for S tier, the problem right now is he seems to have problems with ash, xiaolon, kyo, etc
maxima- still really good, lost a bit of his autoguard it seems but vapor cannon is still one of the best priority moves in the game, vapor cannon cancel is still good, they changed his jumping light kick for some reason but he can still do standing AAC hcb+D command launcher, jumping C into cr.BBB whatever
mai - dd+C is still retarded, slow ass qcfA kachousen is still good, hyperhop B,D is still good provided you dont get scouted, i like mixup between cr.B s.BC ryuuenbu, ryuuenbu followup into super or s.BB cr.B dd+C delayed super cancel ( if you have the meter, otherwise just set up a crossup or a slow kachousen
ryo - priority is nothing to sneeze at, his ability to put you in disadvantageous situations is second only to Iori - his command parries are where its at :3
nightmare geese - can someone confirm for me whether or not the third hit of standing Bx3 is an overhead? i also noticed the other day he can tick into rashomon with two meters VERY easily
classic kyo - doesn’t seem to have the damage potential of normal kyo or the corner ridiculousness, but still maintains a lot of kyo’s normals - requires good spacing to play
mizoguchi- his rdp+C seems pretty good from any hit confirmed string like AAAC. his fireball seems to have a bit of recovery on it but it’s huge and good when spaced. his stylish art where he kicks off the shoes and they fly offscreen only to come down later might be useful on wakeup. on knockdown it seems you can do his taunt for the opportunity to get extra damage, a huge damage boost, or poison yourself - the huge damage boost, although it’s rare, might make it worth it?
b class:
lilly- doesn’t have billy’s ridiculous antiair super but still hard to get in on
ralf- good damage potential, i like stylish art Cx3 into df+D,D xx tackle super - his 100% is HAAAARRD but feasible
duke - i think he’s a bit slower and his jumping normals are pretty lame, still has too much autoguard and damage output to sleep on him. his reverse-your-controls super is good when comboed into and should be the first thing a duke player goes for
jivatma- he got a LOT better, bugspray super is good to framekill someone or stop random hyperhop games, other than that playing him like dhalsim and zoning with limbs and giant fireball will kill most unknowledgeable players - definitely a scrubkiller. bug stance is good for low game and okizeme
nagase / hanzo - their teleport mixup is stupidly good now, they both got new moves that make them a lot scarier than before- that instant qcf slash is hard to predict and good to keep someone out or set up a fireball. ticking into izuna is easier than ever and the shuriken ground spray stops a lot of far pokes cold
mignon / ninon - mignon and ninon’s exploding fireballs hit otg in certain situations. they can both be played rushdown or keepaway, mignon seems better at rush and ninon seems better at the latter. mignon can combo into command grabs, ninon can juggle off of tornado super and her level 3 meteors. ninon’s new orb summon only seems safe after a hyperhop or standing C+D knockback. as a side note they both seem slower. 
rock- he can brake double reppuken and throw a light fireball immediately afterward (?) so that it looks almost like a triple reppuken. got new raging run shift options as well, his brake options make him like wild wolf lite, unfortunately his damage output doesn’t seem to be as good. shifting over people in the corner produces interesting results.
fio- she lost her semi unblockable setups and it seems harder to link stuff off of the Drop Shot super, but she can still get by tiger kneeing qcb+A grenades and playing keepaway until she can call out her tonfas or land a sweep to command grab. molotov is still good
blue mary- still really too early to tell. she has two stances, one with her 2k2 style moves and the one she starts in which has real bout moves. really good priority but more people need to play her before we’re entirely sure.
c class:
athena: the toned down priorities of her bracelet super hurt her options BADLY. now she’s forced to play like old school athena, psycho ball, psycho shoot, teleport doesn’t seem as safe anymore. shining crystal bit is still good and TKable in a pinch, but her best options seem to all come from running away.
hyena- i think he’s massively underrated actually, his lie down stance can get him life back, his resurrection super and his whiff punch joke super do RIDICULOUS damage if the opponent doesn’t know it’s coming, his cloud of cards almost has aegis properties - the problem is he needs the meter to do it, having only really a few good safe options at the start of a match
seth- i personally think he got hit with the nerf stick - he had stupid resets and was god tier in the first MI, then they took out his relaunches in MI2, and now his normals have changed a bit and probably not for the best. he’s still really good but he takes a lot of work to win with now
K’ - the best thing i think K’ has going for him in this game is shooting star road. if someone sets up a counter situation for it properly you won’t even see the opening animation for it come out, he’ll just instantaneously show up on the other side of the person and give them a thumbs down and the dude will lose 80 percent of their life. not to be slept on when he has meter, he’s good for team dynamics because he can really turn around a losing game.
clark - much like seth, he’s really good and has a deadly throw game but has to do a LOT of work against the best characters to win.
again, like i said , take this with a grain of salt, nothing is set in stone yet. EVERYONE in this game can win, and i HAVE to give props to SNK Playmore for testing the shit out of this game- outside of that retarded corner bug ( which you wont see in any matches ) there are no infinites and everyone seems balanced because everyone has tools to work with. now the rest lays in the hands of the players, please discuss this game more people.
AW CRAP GODDAMMIT ALSKFJSDLKFJSOILJFDS
Okay, so not even fifteen minutes after I post that tier list and say that there’s no infinites, I go into my youtube subscriptions and WHAT DO I SEE!?!?!?
[media=youtube]zlM8XJtsOBc[/media]
I’m very sorry, but from bug stance relaunch Jivatma has our first infinite, folks.
-_____________-;;;;;;;
BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!
Ban the infinite for tournaments?
well the infinite just came out three hours ago, lol
i think that for something like this it’s definitely going to have to be the community / players’ call.
the timing on the infinite doesn’t seem very hard at all and is definitely based on the fact that the specific otg throw results in an untechable ground slam, after which you can repeat it.
it’s pretty brutal that he can just one hit kill you from midscreen like that, so IMO he just shot to SS / upper god tier.
as far as banning the infinite or the character, like i said before, this game hasn’t even had any tournies yet, lol
so really it’s up in the air for you guys to discuss. as for me i’m trying to decide if it’s even worth still playing this game anymore or just waiting to see the Japanese players do about it, much less the US community.
if worse comes to worse we could all just chill and wait till Maximum Impact 3 / KOF XII.
It’s possible to ban it if we find out it really is that gay. You can see someone doing it from a mile away.
Did you confirm that this can not be escaped in game?
i tested this for about an hour or so just now, and i can tell you this much
the infinite is:
meaty back+B,D (launch) buffer bug stance with ff+D,D (relaunch), still in bug stance do f,b,f,C for low command grab to relaunch
then do another rep to get them to the wall, let them hit the ground from the command grab
then while in bug stance f,b,f,CxN
each grab has to be done when you see the circular groundslam flash, which is untechable ( the computer doesn’t tech it when it’s set on quick roll OR breakfall, take that as you will )
the difficulty of the timing comes into play because after each command grab you have to get back into bug stance so each rep of it will actually look like:
ff+B f,b,f,C, ff+B f,b,f,C, etc
although, i could easily see people getting this down perfectly with practice much like SFA3 VC into crouch cancel stuff, it’s not really that difficult at all
i’ll leave the debate about the legality of this stuff up to you guys, i think i quit this game 
EDIT: HOLY CRAP why didn’t i notice this before, i spent a while trying to get the second rep which is the hardest goddamn thing, then it hit me
the infinite doesn’t work unless the second rep is done a specific way, reason being that, if you notice this in the vid xiaolon is BACKTURNED in the air
meaning that the second rep has to hit them in a very specific way for this setup to work
this makes it so that the groundslam occurs with them backturned, letting the grab hit, it’s a bug with the grab i think
Wow, you’ll are screwed as soon as I can get this down :devil:. But about banning it, this isn’t the first infinite, mind you Ryo’s 646A can be looped to where it makes the beat counter say 99 over and over again. This kind of thing would probably have to be called before a player match.
…and then there’s simple shit like [media=youtube]JCDRuAi1RIg[/media]…
Yeah but that requires you to corner them, jump over them 3-5 times at a 45 angle before you can actually do anything. It’s a bug but one that will never see the light of an actual match.
quote for truth, that one just isn’t possible in versus play. the Jivatma one is controversial because now his game leans towards not just controlling space with his dhalsim limbs and gargantuan fireball, but if a simplistic two reps of that stylish art xx command grab lead to command grab xN it really changes everything about fighting him. still no word on what JP players think of it although I haven’t checked 2ch but i’m sure that it will end with either the character or the inf being softbanned, if i know Japan like i think i do ( meaning i don’t… 
)
Yeah who know’s what Japan will do, they allow crouch cancel infinite in Z3 but soft ban O.Sagat??? I need to get on that 2ch too.
BTW could you elaborate on Lien’s unblockable? I am just now getting into this game, trained with her today and some others. That Luise chick is just filthy good lol I see what you mean about her throw. And kara cancelling into her throw seems hella dirty especially with f+FP.
Yes during/after NEC/ECC we will be able to finalize the tiers etc as this will be implemented into my list of SNK games to be promoted!!!
good shit geese, as always, much appreciation 
well to be honest with you i’m still kind of unclear how to do it - MrWhiteFolks of Pimp Productions was the first one to develop the Lien unblockable, if i’m not mistaken it revolves around her laser setups and you can either set up a far laser and do something that must be blocked low or you can set up the kick geyser super so that when the command grab paints a target on them the super will hit right when the target laser comes down and gets blocked.
there’s all kinds of ways to set it up, which is why she’s very comparable to a Urien that always has meter.
i’ll have to play around with her today and see if i can figure out some setups.