maybe if you listened to what people told you might get… better?
laph…ok what ISNT sidesteppable in this game, very little
im not knocking mak but if you think lien doesnt do damage youre nuts
and not all the characters do damage the same way…liens extra abilities are what makes her top 5
ALL i gotta say is if ANYONE doubts duke in the top tier…i doubt your knowledge on MIRA
duke has no problems with xiao at all, wtf?
duke has little problems with anyone for that matter…a scrubby duke could tear even a solid ash to pieces, duke has problems with a few rush down characters that can control the frames, which is why i would rate him equal with ash because ash doesnt BUT…
duke leads to half life combos off of everything? minimum?
w/o any super bars he can do as much damage as other characters WITH them
okokok i just read what you said about sidestep being better in this game than in mi2…youre insane, the end
Syxx-wild wolf is ass, i play the terrys religiously and he was really good in mi2 but he is significantly worse in mira
his best shit is all based on the use of the shoulder combos and because of the new input that limits whats finishable on reaction and w/ the weakened burning knuckle…
he is not the man he used to be
he used to be simple but do tons of damage and now he is even more simple and still only does standard damage
TERRY HOWEVER…MIGHT be better than before in MIRA
DG- i might be at evo
:wgrin:
[media=youtube]X-Jew4GXufY[/media]
that video is the only evidence i need that duke is top tier
the combo that starts at 0:28…and just look at how much damage he does before he even supers AND look at how much it does with them
either way he is a machine
its even amateur shit
Lien has no defense what so ever. Great resets and decent mixups but she just doesn’t cut it like the other tops when in a pinch.
Duke, sure he’s got some sick damage but he doesn’t have THE most important factor in what makes or breaks tops. Mixups. He has absolutely not high-low game save for ground wave, and that’s easy to see coming because of it’s start up time. A-tier at best, but not S-tier.
WW is tops, and quite frankly running char for best in the game, because of everything he does. He has high-low [second best in the game], pressure [best in the game], close/mid/far pokes [third best seperate; second in overal], insane damage without need of supers [best in game], recovery [best in game (imo) mainly thanks to his breaks]. What doesn’t he have?
Personal opinion of S-tier [in no particular order]:
-Ash
-Xiao
-Wild Wolf
-Luise
-Jivatama [w/ inf. (A-tier otherwise)]
So I take it we all can agree Kyo isn’t S right?
Not in this one. He’s still high (top of A-tier imo) but not the same from MI2.
mixups are nice but they arent THE most important part
however duke has plenty of mixups?
he doesnt NEED to end his strings in high-low mixups to have the ability to mixup
he can pull timing mixups plus he can cancel qcf2 repeatedly until they DO attempt a parry…which the ground stomp will work for
and how MUCH damage he gets for the risk is whats key
he also has great range control
plus f2 is one of the best mids in the game?
…and that is all with the fact that just about all of his punches have upper body invincibility?
use those punches to get close and kill them
here is ANOTHER example combo: 2df2 dp1 dp22 uf2+4…now if i recall correctly that shit does what 60 damage? no super at all…no effort at all?
pretty good for a combo that uses upperbody invincibilty and is pretty much safe
his reversal is decent, his super throw is absurd, that level 3 is just about the best super in the game and his qcf,qcf+p super is DEFINITELY the best level 1 super in the game, he is also a beast about getting people to the wall to kill them?
AND he is way too easy to use
luise IS good and i rank her very highly…but she requires more work for less damage
but clearly she can just rush all day
wild wolf has the tools where he can win but what it all comes down to is he has to stick to his reaction stuff until he gets a parry
his pressure game is decent at best b/c his cancels offer them just as much of an opportunity to kill him as it does for him to keep going plus the hcf motion makes it way harder to react to the strings and then adjust …basically he will sacrifice a lot of damage even on hit …which actually will, in his advanced level of play, make his pressure game even better if that was the intended focus…but then you are sacrificing guaranteed damage for the offensive options
the options arent drastically against WW w/ his cancels…but they arent for him either like they are for the S class characters …and at this current juncture thats all im stating
its not like wild wolf can really mix you up after a string either…his best shit is a throw/cancel mixup, his mixup ability is actually worse than dukes in that regard
combine that with the fact that he does less damage…
NOW i want to hear who you think has the best mixup high-low in the game because you list WW as #2, wtf?
yea kyo has to work too hard for the money
Luise easily. She has high, low and airdash mixups which in turn means mind fuck for the opponent.
My main thing with Duke is that to get that stuff, he has to pretty much be on the persons ass. Which the people I mentioned before, including a ton of lower rank chars, can keep him out almost indefinite by either their normal routine or by just blocking low. Too much risk, not enough reward. 60 damage off a normal string is nothing to be scared of since most of the cast can do that easily.
Everyone sticks to their reaction until they get a parry, even then they still have ot keep up their reaction. I honestly gotta say, if you’re not scared of shoulder break then you’re just crazy.
janna, now that you’re here i wanted to know what you thought about pretty boy ash
and xiaolon
and good points on the WW
it’s hard to judge WW myself since I don’t really play him but you made a good point
though as far as mixups, i was under the impression that he had a string that started with an overhead that you could combo into his launcher (powercharge cancel)
TMFB…Good…I want someone to look forward to playing besides the Japanese (If the ones at EVO Are any good 
)
Richard, plain and simple. Not so much for his quick high/low attacks, but more for the fact that any of them go straight into qcf+k which is an absurd, instant over head with a built in ambiguous cross-up.
Soiree next for much the same reason, minus the cross-up, but with the addition of his hcf+p dash. That shit is safe, snuffs everything and puts the opponent on the ground for what seems like a longer than normal time.
Honorable mentions? Luise + Athena
Luise is obvious, but I don’t buy into the whole ‘air-dash’ bullshit. She’s too fragile and I have yet to see where it is worth while. However, her chain mix-ups, especially the one starting with k,k,->p,K,P,k is really effective and has autoguard for the k,k, portion.
Athena has a lot of interesting things to do from the fact that some of her chains get her slightly off the ground. Instead of continuing the chain, qcb+k ‘or K’. Throw after a blocked qcb+k attempt, score a knock down otherwise. Plus, you can finish off of interrupt blocked chains of hers with k-teleport.
Good to talk about this game again…
Oops, forgot about richard and soiree.
richard’s slow though… what string can you use to punish unsafe specials and supers?
I’m laughing at some of this thread…
Ugh.
Syxx is garbage, btw. So is Webster.
Command grab/run
Richard is winning anytime you are on the ground.
Well, I suppose that’s true all around, but Richard is especially winning in that situation. :woot:
i went back and tested my duke 60 damage scrub combo…nope its easier still, its just
2df2 dp22 uf2+4
drop gate- the shoulder moves are decent, im not saying they arent good
but they arent game altering…in fact they are pretty standard
the cancels are decent as options but in the end the mixup is as bad for WW as it is for his opponent
duke doesnt have to be on anyones ass? his attacks have SO MUCH RANGE
look at his 333? look at his f3?
his stomp has DECEPTIVE range, his clotheslines are retarded AND AGAIN because they are punches have upperbody invincibility
shit he doesnt even have to worry about grabbing them ever he can just mix up his strings with counters and unblockables and clotheslines to other shit
you cant keep duke out w/o a lot of work upperbody invincibility and hyperhops make the world go round
blocking low all day gainst him …or even a predictable amount of time will get you hurt? again i say it F2 is one of the best mids in the game!
and duke is good because his shit is braindead easy, you say half the cast can do it…well im just talking about the scrub combos im not listing the complex shit …and true there are other characters that can do decent damage conventionally but he does that scrubby and when you get up to including a bar or 2…noone competes with his damage NOONE
luise is definitely good and her mixups are strong…but if she isnt in control she isnt doing shit
for luise’s mixups to be strong she has to be the one making the decisions
and because of her speed and lack of fast scary lows…basically SHE NEEDS to parry
…at least for mixups anyways, her spacing is off the charts though…because of that she is probably my pick for #6 if i had to guess
my pick for mixup character is lien though, she doesnt need a miss or a parry to be able to create the mixups, lien really is too good in the mixup department
playing against lien is like playing against a timer…eventually she will kill you so you have to try to beat her to the punch
syxx- ww does have the f2 and its sick indeed but i was merely mentioning the string closeouts …his special moves that he would cancel his strings with basically
his best chance for a mixup after a string, in fact ww doesnt even have a low to end his strings with
he is ALL spacing and nothing more in that regard, if you want a real high-low mixup you have to start your string with it
so his game has to be played really safe and all reactionary until he is given an opportunity to force the opponent to sit still for him
most of the top characters for mixups can do that too…but also have ways of forcing random guesses too
and really HOW DOES a wild wolf player force you to sit still? shoulder cancels? i dont think so
in fact that is where his risk versus reward comes into play
he must hit you with a move that isnt cancelled when you thought he would cancel it…
so i got hit by a shoulder cancel(which is his most damaging of those cancels) how much damage does it really lead to? not much
at least that is to say not as much as the amount of damage that will most likely be inflicted on him when someone guesses right and interrupts when he cancels?
every other scenario is just another guessing game
oh he parried when i didnt cancel, oh he waited for my cancel so now i have to guess mid-low, oh he grabbed me is it 2 or 4 to break that, oh i want to keep the grinder going so im going to restart my strings to create a new mixup opportunity…etc etc etc etc
its why ww is MID tier at best
ash is top tier tied for #1 in my opinion
but when everyone knows his strings and his options he has a harder time i think
he needs his level 1 super to create opportunities for him and he has to stick to wiff punishing
his mixups are solid but his wiff punishing damage is better and more reliable
xiao is solid, but for her to be truly dirty i think she needs more skill than its worth
if the opponent playing against her knows her strings its really hard for her to compete w/o getting fancy…but im sure she is like uppermid
DaidojiKage-
both soirree and dick are great characters
there is a way out of the richard meyer crossover though you know, i think its nuetral guard? cant remember for sure ill have to pop it back in…at any rate if he isnt screwed by anymeans on that because sometimes its still hard to block it and he can mess with the timing and even do the other qcfk to hit you
soiree is a machine in MIRA…ungh i love him
solid answer but dick needs to use his level 2 super to get real damage on his guesses…and his options to use it are limited because it only hits off of a few things…the level 1 is ok but it hits off even less things because you need to hit them standing …and well he at least has that new bdd/bk move to combo it off of but then…he uses another bar:P
soiree fares better in that he can actually mixup way better before strings AND his 11d4 is guaranteed ALWAYS so its way scarier plus he can combo everything to supers
he is one of the few great characters for mixups that doesnt have an unblockable…which is why i list him slightly lower than some of the other mixup characters EVEN THOUGH his grab essentially is one…but he needs that level 1 too much which means he needs to use moves that go into it too and that kind of hurts since he might as well cut his combos shorter and just use the level 2
athena though is much better in the spacing department, her mixups are low-medium risk low to medium reward
and i agree with your comment abour richard and them being on the ground, haha
you are bad!!!
I am bad. But that comes with not having the game anymore. Besides…1500 piece tie dye puzzles are better than playing MIRA.
wtf happened to your ps2