So basically what happened was I hit in front and landed behind?
Urien/sf5 offense theory:
Ok so Iāve had a problem ever since touching SF5ā¦ That itās ha to throw people in this game. I always use cr.lp then mix between immediate throw, or a 5 frame move or a 7 frame move up to 10-12 frame moves as frame traps. Prob,em is that they just donāt work very well for whatever reason. Perhaps itās my opponents mixing it up, perhaps itās me being to predictable in my patternsā¦ But itās something Iāve had lots of trouble with and consequently, I have trouble getting nice confirms against people.
Well my friend told me to cut it out with the jabs and stuff and concentrate on using mediums instead. Mediums do white chip and more damage and give easy combos on CH etc etc.
Well I started to use the string of dash in>st.mp,st.mpā¦ The results were amazing. The second st.mp was hitting all dayā¦ What gives?
I started to realize that my opponents were anticipating that I would open with a Cr.lp>throw or frame trap and so they were doing delay techs timed to beat that.
But the st.mp has a different timing. It gives more blockstun and more recovery than Cr.lpā¦ To break it down the math looks like this:
Cr.lp (first active makes contact) there is now 8 frames of hitpause along with 1 extra active frame. Plus another 9 frames of recovery plus an extra 2 frames of frame advantage on block.
Now thatās 20 total frames that have elapsed in time since the Cr.lp made contact. However in certain characters cases they have to walk forwardā¦ So that adds in roughly 2 more frames for 22 frames. Then the throw starts up. Itās has 5 startup and 6 further frames of tech window for 11 frames. So now we know that a tick throw takes around 22 plus 11 frames from the time the jab makes contact to the time the opponent has to throw escape from. 33 total frames.
The thing is though, thereās very little time to make sure that it was actually a jab that made contact. This is where we get our mixup from. That was the timing for the string of Cr.lp>throw
The timing for a Urien string that is st.mp>st.mp goes something like this:
Startup frames once again donāt matter since itās the timing of the second attack that we are looking for. So st.mp makes contact. But it has 12 frames of hitpause plus 3 active. Also itās recovery is 12 frames not 9. So already we have a different frame situation. The total amount of frames that elapses from the time the st.mp makes contact is 26 this 26 can then add on 6 frames for the second st.mp so that the total time that passes before the st.mp hits is 32 frames. Now remember that the longest window for the defender to tech in the first scenario is 33 frames. This is almost a perfect correlation with the st.mp,st.mp frame trap. And that trap only has a 3 frame gap so nothing without invincibility can beat itā¦ BUT THATS NOT ALL!
Remember that there is a frame buffer in this game.
Frame 27 of the last example is actually a frame the opponent canāt do anything during. Itās an advantaged frame since the st.mp has +3 frames of advantage. So even if the opponent teched right here they wouldnāt get a techā¦ And normally that would be problematic. But because of the sf5 input buffer, if the opponent techs on this frame it will CARRY OVER to the first frame when the opponent can act, and since throw tech is 5 frames long but thereās only a 3 frame gap in this frame trapā¦ It is basically an auto opener if the opponent tried to tech thinking that a Cr.lp tick throw was coming.
Remember in the first example that the throw actually starts on frame 23. So if the opponent techs on the 23rd 24th 25th or 26th frame, they are safe from the tick throw and the frame trapā¦ But they have to tech VERY FAST for that to happen which means they are guessing hard and not only that, they leave themselves open to fast frame traps like Cr.lp>Cr.mp cause now instead of the trap being between frames 27-32, the trap is between frames 22-27
So basically if you take out the opponents ability to spy the difference between st.mp and Cr.lp in under 20 frames or soā¦ As a surprise. This is a perfect frame trap mixup as far as timing goes and it isnāt bustable by any normal mash. In fact it will do the same thing to jabs as it does to throw tech. Jabs will get buffered to come out into no mans land and get chopped off.
Now of course a disclaimerā¦ My math may be entirely wrong because reasons as I did it all in my head. But I did take my theory to the training dummy and running the simple dash>Cr.lp>throw or dash>st.mp,st.mp
It was very hard to consistently tech it and not get hit but the frame trap. Impossible? No. But hard and not something I would feel I could rely onā¦ Especially in the heat of the match.
Anywho, it was working for me online as well so maybe this is something that people who donāt know about this could use to up their game.
Are there any combo strings that link into light or medium tackle that result in them hitting meaty enough to be plus on hit? Also are the block strings that space it so that tackle is safe on block? I havenāt had much success with this and there is no way to record a dummy to do something after recovery from being hit, and the recovery action on block always came out before I would hit tackle in a block string so I know that I can frame trap with it but I want to know if I am safe if they decide to keep blocking.
Figured this out with H headbutt whiff crlk mtackle. If only it was easier to space to hit that late.
Make sure youāre doing MK knee as soon as you can
Looking for frame data for urien
My frame-data .txt with extra notes, V-skill properties and such: http://pastebin.com/RsWhk6Xx
Or just use Tool_Assistedās oki calculator which also has frame-data: http://toolassisted.github.io/OKI/#URN/86/42/37/1,0,0,0,/1,0,0,0,/1,0,0,0,/1,0,0,0,/1,0,0,0,/42,0,0,0,/1,0,0,0,/
Dunno about you bois, but I can see Urien isnt going to be a good character at all.
thank you very much
Hey guys, iāve been messing around urien for a couple hours and I figured iād post what iāve found out.
Off of CC sweep, at certain distances, you can crouch jab immediately and do ex fireball for a meaty fireball setup(not sure what good that really does but itās possible). if it hits, dash forward, crouch strong connects.
Also, off of CC sweep, you can meaty axe kick by dashing forward, whiffing two cr.jabs, and do axe kick immediately after. Itāll beat 3 frame normals.
I gotta say this is the most fun iāve had with the game since switching to ryu after karin. Sorry if this is redundant information.
So I can cr.mp - ex.headbutt - s.hp but can I do cr.mp - cr.lp. - ex headbutt - s.hp if I time correctly? cant make it work, also is there a followup to CC.hk?
Birdie ex bullhead punish, maybe can change timing a bit to get a headbutt loop? https://twitter.com/DrakenDuBose/status/781365684332822528?s=09
Itās easy as hell if u do it after a backthrow HP CC.
Iām having an extremely hard time trying to cancel F+mp into headbutt.
What is the correct way to do it? Piano press? People are doing it like its 2nd nature. I donāt even want to know what charge partitioning was in 3rd strike.
The struggle is real, help meeeeehhhhh.
I cannot get it 100% consistent but the way I think of it is that I just do the motion slower, then hit MP as the stick passes the halfway stage (standing) and then hit the Headbutt when I reach the top of the square gate.
That probably didnāt make any sense? Here, this video explains it with Guiles S.FP into Flash Kick in SFIV.
There are 2 methods, **Skip to 5:01 as it wouldnāt let me copy timestamp for some reason.
**
https://youtu.be/6pjO-EMh6Ho?t=337
May I ask why you think this?
He has great range on normals, a reversal (albeit metered) great set ups off of back and forward throw, great forward dash range, elite status for this game actually, a great CC button, lp tc combo, decent anti airs, a fireball, an overhead ect ectā¦
I think his vskill is still a bit unexplored but he seems like a character that will have many different top playstlyes. Check the Japanese and J Wongs Urien matches vs say a Chris G or a Sonicfox. The latter depends more on the filth that is those Aegis setups while Wong and our overlords have a more solid mid range focus type of gameplan.
I think Urien is absolutely fantastic and should be used as a bar for which other characters are balanced around.
Alex has had success in the wild. Urien seems to have better tools overall than him. Give it time, other than 3f button and crossup, he has the SFV strong tools.
Sonicfox finished 3rd at nlbc. He beat dieminion and Arturo. Struggled against danslip and the cammy matchup though.
The only reason I can assume someone thinks Urien is bad is that they are lying about actually having played the character. If you actually have played the character, you canāt downplay him. Heās good.
Hold downforward for your headbutt charge. Roll to forward and press MP, then go to upforward and press MP again.
Alternatively, when you press MP for the F.MP you can hold it in and negative edge the MP when you hit upforward.