Looks like Urien’s v-skill augmented specials are armoured from the first frame. While flawed it does give him access to additional reversal options without requiring ex or v-trigger meter.
https://youtu.be/1mmMQrKoDVE
I tested it with hitboxes on. Just to confirm, you’re right. His v-skill augmented charge moves all have one armour for the entire duration of the move.
He loses the armor if he’s hit though and the animation for the V-Skill is ass long.
I meant stMP fMP has a 4f gap.
And at least in the mod that I’m using (the CheatEngine one) he doesn’t lose the armor if he gets hit. But he uses the armour even when using a special in a combo (ie - the armour is gone if you don’t use it).
And its not frame 1. Seems to be 2 or 3. Test it against someone jumping and go for forward + K at the last second or record a meaty combo, you’ll get counter hitted (and you’ll not waste the armour too).
The uses for it I guess are going to use as a AA, pass through projectiles or blow up gappy blockstrings without the need to use bar. But meh, its seems really, really bad. One crMK xx HK Tackle in footsies and you already lost what you invested 53f to get. I really wish that the armour was gone only when we actually absorbed something…
I imagine that they’re looking for some Option-Select or sequence that covers most outcomes. (No tech, quick-tech, back-tech/wakeup block, wakeup nothing, wake up uppercut).
This isn’t SF4 though so it’s unlikely.
I’m trying to work out a meaty Tackle set up but at the moment I don’t know how many active frames it has. We know it has at least 5 because it’s 0 on hit but we can get st.LP after it so it would be safe on block (-2). I don’t know how I feel about frame trapping myself like that though. Will take my math in game when I get the chance.
On a similar note - do we know how many frames advantage we’re at after a CC-Sweep or after a cr.HP? I’m wondering if cr.HP xx Charge-LP-Fireball could be a thing. (+5 on hit/+4 on block) I can already see some disgusting corner pressure potential.
Have you tried meaty headbutt. Cammy can land a meaty st hk on the first frame of wake up even though the move only hits standing characters.
I think Urien mp headbutt can do it though i havent tried.
The reason i pick mp headbutt is, I suspect the hit box is bigger and or may have invincibility frames somewhere or more active frames, plus the 1 hit of armour gained through vskill makes it seem like a good candidate.
I’ll give it a go and see if I can work out anything. Can’t actually play at the moment. Doing what I usually do which is taking the frame data and seeing what I can come up with. Then I take it to the lab later.
Without knowing how many frames moves knock down for, it’s a bit sketchy at the moment but will post my findings when I have them. 
He can cover both wake up options. But only against characters with no 3f since he doesn’t have a hit confirmable normal with 4 active frame.
For example, after sweep he can dash fMP and it will be +4 (follow up with TC1 xx HK Tackle) on people quick rising + pressing a 4f button and it will be +6 on poeple backrising and pressing a 4f button (follow up with stMP/crMP xx HK Tackle).
After HK Tackle he can whiff fMP and go for stMP to beat wake up 4f from both recoveries. Though I don’t think he can combo someone after a counter hit stMP on backrise since its pretty far. Dash covers way more ground then fMP but then you have to manually time the stMP. But it may be the go to option in the long game.
Really tempted to use this mod online in the battle lounge. Did anyone get banned for anything like this before? From what I understand, no one got banned from using the survival trainer.
Are you sure that f.MP has 5 or more active frames? Because that’s the only way you’re covering Quick-Rise and Back-Roll with the same button. Also, are you sure it reaches a Back-Roll? What do you mean by “+4 if they press a 4 frame button”? Do you mean them getting hit because mashing jab on wake up? If they wake up and block this seems like a really bad idea.
I would check the math on all these but I don’t know the knockdown frame advantages, active frames or how many frames his dashes are.
You don’t need more than 5 active frames to beat people waking up with buttons. You only need 4 to beat 3 framers and 3 actives to beat chars with only 4f moves.
All you have to do is meaty the backrise while beating the wake up button on quickrise via priority system. And fMP and stMP have 3 active frames, so you can time these buttons to beat the 4f chars.
But yeah, that fMP is not that good because its 0 on block vs backrise and -2 on quickrise. I guess we’ll need to use stMP but, again, it requires you to be frame perfect so meh. His ofensive seems quite bad, but its understandable as his neutral game is superb.
Btw, what is his shimmy without V-Trigger/CA? I was using crMK and confirming the grab whiff to cancel into MP Sphere since you don’t really have the charge to HK Tackle after you shimmied someone.
And has someone mentioned that his dash grab is INSAAAAAAAANE ? 16f dash and it travels so freaking far.
Any thoughts on Urien’s neutral game so far? I think he’s pretty much like how he was in 3S, having to play a mid-range zoning game while building up meter before gaining access to higher damage combos and Aegis. His fireball game might actually be somewhat decent this time around since only a few characters can parry anymore, and he can now cancel crouching forward into specials. What do you guys think?
f+MP actually has 4 active frames.
Oh, yeah, that is right. So he can do setups to beat both wake ups from any char. The downside is that against quickrise he will be -2 on block, but on backrise he will be +1 which is what he needs to be to mantain offensive against 3f chars.
@Haztlan had to think pon that for a while. My guess for shimmy is CC st hp, dash up cr hp into whatever.
To be honest i think his super is useless out side vtrigger combo/resets.
But most of the time you will hit them in the recovery frames of the throw, not the startup. Relying on CC combos on shimmies is not a good idea.
And his super can be cancelled from any Tackle, so it isn’t that bad. Not to mention that its a preeeetty good AA. I may as well wish good luck to the ken player with those herp derp hurr durr jump tatsus.
V-Skill Tackle xx CA may be very handy if we manage to get V-Skill going somehow.
And I’m pretty sure it can be used to shimmy someone. If you can’t do it with stMP due to the pushback I think that crMP should work, gotta test it though.
Can you use charged st hk to beat both wakeup? Either through reaction or just active frames
@Haztlan then you are probably looking at his crouch hp into whatever then. Its high risk high reward with multiple enders, so mixup /reset options are plenty.
His st mp is nice and safe but does not have the damage potential of cr hp, limited options.
His cr mp is the same as the above.
St hk maybe, but you are still limited
I guess it comes down to your meter. If all you have is 1 ex bar then go with the safe picks. However if you have vt or more than two bars of ex or both i think its work the risk.
I like st hp, cause its low risk with a very high reward in all meter situations.
How does a move with 4 active frames cover both quick-rise and back-roll if there is a 5 frame difference between them? I’m not trying to be a dick (Even though it most likely comes across that way) but I fail to see how this covers both options.
Unless you mean the button in general can be used on both wake ups, but not the same set up.