Of course I do. I don’t forget those whom I’ve fought online. : )
Basically Eirokaj, your just doing Run Slide FADC, Back Dash to create an ambiguous Cross up situation. An example: crLk, crLp, stMp into Run Slide, FADC, Back Dash, then take a little step Forward, then Forward Jump into either Cross Up Mk or Elbow Drop. Other options are Low Bushin Flip, Empty Jump into Crouch Tech. Against shotos crMk, I take a little tiny step back then Forward Jump Hk or Mp to beat there wake up crMk. I’ve been using this alot lately and been having success. Also, importantly, every character has a different wake up so you have to practice it per match up. The key is finding ways to incorporate this into your existing game. Example 2: Lets say you blocked Ryu’s SRK and punished with; stHk, TC into RS. You can do: Empty Neutral Jump crLk, crLp, stMp into RS, FADC into Back Dash. Now you’ve created an ambiguous Cross Up situation Mid-screen. There are many other examples, you just have to be creative with it. Also be mindful of your Meter usage and managing it.
I see. Thanks xIROCx. The shoto players have been increasing online recently, so this will be a good opportunity to practice Guy’s vortex against them.
In the Ryu situation you stated, what would happen if he; a) mashed DP (would it not autocorrect and whiff if you go for the crossup MK, but catch the elbow drop?) and b) went for a low profile move like cr. mk? To add to the fun, could we not incorporate air grab into the vortex to catch backdash on wakeup? Also, something else I’ve been looking at is the hit and hurt boxes of Guy’s jumping normals, specifically kicks. While jumping LK looks the same as MK, it has a smaller hit box (can’t be used as a crossup) but also a smaller hurt box at the bottom left. I’m wondering if this might help in certain matchups against particular reversals or antiairs if you trick your opponent into thinking you’re going for a crossup MK but actually just whiff a ‘crossup’ LK instead. I also think this could create some corner shenanigans where if you time and space your jump correctly, LK would hit in front and MK would crossup. Especially ambiguous because the move animations are identical. I’m also pretty sure I have scored a crossup jumping HK before, with Guy landing in front - but I can’t be sure if they just blocked it the wrong way. Guy’s ambiguous vortex could be a whole lot more effective if the normal used determined whether it crosses up or not. Hmm…maybe I’ll work some more on these ideas! Please post any thoughts or findings any of you have!
There is a perfect frame you can jump in on Ryu as far as Cross Up Mk is concerned, but Ryu’s DP can autocorrect. As far as Elbow Drop, its always unsafe as far as jump-ins. Concerning Ryu’s crMk you have to use Jump-in Hk or Mp. The trick is landing in the front to achieve the HK or Mp. ‘Its all about your spacing’. Incorporating Izuna Drop into the vortex to catch back dashes is Very Clever! I tested that and it works, just delay your jump-in a little more. As a side note, Guy’s vortex works best against C. Viper because Elbow Drop and Cross Up is Safe. Also its pretty good against Chun Li because Cross Up is Safe, but not Elbow Drop.
Can’t C. Viper just EX seismo feint to avoid it? I imagine by the time you’ve landed, she’ll already have recovered?
Good question! I just tested that and you have to use Low Bushin Flip if I’m not mistaken. Example: crLk, crLp, stMp into RS, FADC into Back Dash then slightly delay a Low Bushin Flip. Will create an Uncrouchable, will catch Ex Seismo and Ex Seismo Feint and Forward Dash. But unsafe against her Thunder Knuckle and Burn Kicks. Also equip Ultra 2 in this match up. When you put Viper into this vortex theres a good chance shes going to do wake up Low, Medium or Ex Burn Kicks which you can beat on block that is if you use Elbow Drop or Cross Up Mk. As you pointed out, I would also incorporate Jump-in Lk as a Fake Cross Up and a delayed Izuna Drop to catch Back Dash. Very good points!
I keep seeing people use the overhead kara cancel into lp bushin flip against ryu on his wakeup, and I dont know specifically why it works but it seems to catch his shoryuken perfectly every time.
I’ve tried it myself and it works but does anyone know the full details about this, like exactly how it works?
I think against shotos in general though a good idea is to use as many setups to get the bushin flip just above them (but slightly past them) when they reversal so that if they do dp you catch it or drop over it and if they dont dp you get an elbow drop that hits from the front, the problem is theres still the crmk thing to ruin it a lot of the time, I dont know whos at an advantage when ryu uses crmk under the bushin flip elbow drop either, sometimes I can get a move out before he has a chance.
I would be one of those people that you see using it. Works just as well on Ken and Akuma as well. In fact it can work on just about any reversal, but like most things, timing and spacing are the key. I even managed to grab Cammy out of EX DP with this just last night, and ordinarily going for it against Cammy is a terrible idea because of her DPs massive upwards hit box. It works because when most DPs are activated, the character moves forward slightly before the move becomes active, plus the fact most of them have an up/forward hit box for obvious anti-air purposes. If you time and space the LP flip so you are just about above the opponent’s head when they reversal DP (but not so far that they autocorrect!), their move moves them forward while you sail over their head safely. Hit punch again to grab them. The timing and spacing for this is different for a few characters, such as Cammy, Sagat, Gouken, Juri off the top of my head (because their reversals have a more vertical hit box which will often catch you if you’re directly above their head).
The only downside to this is that almost every character can get out of this situation by either mashing cr. jab to knock you out of the flip or a low profile move like Ryu’s cr. MK as you mentioned. Once they discover that, you’re screwed if they have half decent reactions. Because both normal and flip elbow drops have a few of frames of ground recovery on whiff, and cr. MK has 5 active frames, you’re very likely to get hit by it if they have good timing. But on the flip side, cr. MK has 12 recovery frames, so if you land after the active frames has ended, you’ve got about 4 frames (at best) in which to punish him. But you’re relying on him mistiming it in order for that to happen, so it’s generally a bad idea to start with.
Thanks man, that makes sense, and i found some ways to use the flip in blockstrings/ as a reset to catch dps by aiming just above them too.
Why the fmp over head kara thing though? does it help the setup or is it just something to confuse people?
Yeah kara cancelling from overhead serves no real purpose apart from confusion purposes. It’s good for mixing it up a bit in longer sets. Sometimes I start the match off by going for LP flips after a knockdown, other times I’ll start off going for meaty overheads. You can even kara cancel it into run stop, but make sure you leave just enough time to recover before their wakeup reversal would catch you. It just helps to randomise things a little and forces your opponent to take a guess at what you’re going for, whereas if you just go for the same setup over and over they’re gonna clock on to that immediately.
Yeah I find that cancelling different moves into bushin flip gives your offence a different feel. I seem to be having particular luck using cr. LK and cr. MP, especially if you condition them to expect a run stop. While I like to try and play Guy as solidly as possible, sometimes just going random to baffle your opponent can be the key to victory.
Yeah thats it, if you play too safe all the time you get too predictable and guy doesnt really have much to use thats actually safe.
Does anyone here use The Uncrouchable Bushin Flip after a run slide? I used to do it a lot and it got me big damage. But ever since learning about Guy’s run slide Safejump, I stopped using it for awhile. Just wondering if y’all utilize it as bc I think it’s very helpful.
Every now and then to keep opponents on their toes, but most of the time I do the safe jump or meaty set ups
I do it sometimes if I think they’re panicking, but not really that much.
Generally I try to do it with the LP flip with manual timing, but I never really know if I get the timing right or they’re always just standing 
haha
I did something last year in December where I constantly did it over and over. I got proficient at it one point in time. The most damaging setup/move/trick I had in my arsenal a year ago was the following: **J. Hard Kick > cr. Hard Punch > St. Medium Punch > Run slide > EX The Uncrouchable Bushin Flip **
I’m trying to put it back in my arsenal so I can try and do it in tournaments. And I think if you are good at it, you can easily get life lead or even life against your opponent, though some people would rather just use meter for something else later in the match.
You can get an uncrouchable hp bushin flip after a mk tatsu if you do qcf hold forward slightly then press hp and grab them just as they stand.
You can get similar setups off hozanto combos and ff chain ex hozanto, I practiced the mk tatsu setup and can get it most of the time, but I’m wondering is it even worth it? Anyone can just use a crouching attack on wakeup to mess it up anyway so I dont know whether theres much point unless theres some way to counter the low profile moves and make it useful as a mixup again?
Well said! To be honest it’s not worth using unless it’s against online scrubs. In a tournament you will almost certainly get blown up going for something this obvious. It’s simply not worth the risk anymore these days. Back when bushin flip grabs did an absurd amount of damage, perhaps it was worth it, but not now. Although in reference to your last note regarding low profile moves making a whiff elbow drop come out, if you have ultra 2 stocked and buffer that just before you land, it will come out and catch recovery frames if they whiffed their low normal. This works particularly well against shotos cr. MK, but also many other characters as well.
Delay the bushin flip so it isn’t an uncrouchable most people won’t know the exact setup and will generally press a button anyway as they will try to get you to whiff or hit our elbow, time it right and you’ll score a hit, trains them to bargain with a reversal or spending meter.
I’ll test both of your ideas and let you know how it goes, cheers.