You are absolutely right. If a player sees an overhead coming, then there is no beasting after a knockdown. This is why in a mixup, you have to vary the attacks you are using. Spamming overheads gets rather predictable as you have pointed out. So to effectively use one, you have to make it less predictable. One way to do this is to vary the overhead you use. Ken has 3 I believe: UOH, back + mk, and F + hk. F + hk has too many frames on start up, so I dont think this would be the best one to use, but b + mk is an alternate to UOH, not only that, but you can also cancel SAIII into b + mk (the timing takes some getting used to though…). Of course, to play a mixup game you have to include attacks that hit low as well. The basic idea of any good mixup game is to put your opponent in an ambiguous situation where 2 or more high and low attacks could take place and bank off of your opponent guessing incorrectly.
From what you are saying, my guess is that your mixup game is somewhat predictable and needs work. Rather than saying something like mixups/OUHs/meatys are virtually useless, maybe this experience is telling you that this is something that your game is lacking right now, and that learning how to do this will make you a better player. True, trying to mixup skilled players like mymoza will be even more difficult to do; however, to consider these aspects of the game as all but insignificant is really handicapping your ability to win. Why deny yourself this avenue to victory? I think you’re really shooting yourself in the foot by not trying to improve your ability to execute these maneuvers rather than saying that they are pretty much ineffective.
That was unnecessary… right after the constructive post by the SF3TSguy :tdown:
As for Ken’s SA2… I agree with Mr. Goldreaver that it works surprisingly well, at times. You can still jump away from it… the SA2 Ken isn’t ready to anti-air with that super 100% of the time, and then the potential falls, and you’d be better off with SA3 to begin with.
On the other hand, it’s a bigger reward after a hit-confirm, but you lose your EX, range and versatility.
Concerning mix-ups, timing is a bigger factor than what moves you use to attack, in my opinion. I think that was Mr. Goldreavers main problem against Mymoza, because he was right up in his face on every knockdown, trying to score free damage.
Coupled with the assumption that he’s faced your playstyle before/ has more experience.
You should have listened to Locoghoul and stop posting…
I don’t know what “as good as nothing” means to you, but to me it means its useless, also putting in the context of you saying overheads suck (as meaty) he is pretty much right about your lying sucking …
You say that if you try to meaty an overhead it will be blocked on reaction, that’s pretty much bull (also Dudley has a pretty fast overhead that links to super…), if that were true blocking low would be imba and you just had to look out for teching throws… The fact is that YOU suck and are probably doing them ‘too meaty’ so its seen a mile away, even worse than if you leave mk pressed.
The only thing void here is your credibility…
Can’t think of anything else to say as your pretty much an imbecile or a troll.
Wow at least gold reaver is being polite and constructive. Anyone that god-forbid makes a mistake gets their fucking ear chewed like crazy.
I’d be getting pretty pissed off, if someone sat there and kept calling me an idiot.
I completely disagree with him (except fot his earlier point about saii being good but infintesimally worse then sa3.), but I wouldn’t come in here and start calling him a moron and shit.
About a year ago I ran around with about the same ideas about knockdown as they do now. I don’t care whether people consider me credible or whatever. There’s a brick wall somewhere and I pointed out it’s location, even if people don’t believe me, they’ll find out on their own eventually.
Thx ^^, though i’m not playing 3rd strike since my PS2->DC adaptor broke down, more playing ggxx on the net. I’ll try to read all the fpost and make a update, however shit wrote surprise the hell out of me so thx for reading it if you did so.
Regards ^^.
PS: and on the wakeup game vs ken or gouki you can’t be too aggressive, if you do so it’s free shoryu everytime.
This thread is pretty good, and I actually agree with Gold Reaver. Overheads are pretty easy to block on reaction. I think people read without thinking a lot of times…the wakeup game isn’t some end all be all that some people think it is. I had this argument a long time ago, and I basically said knocking someone down doesn’t equal an advantage all the time. Just like Ken’s SA2 isn’t always bad. People just have these automated responses without thinking. Obviously overheads can be and ARE useful, but their power stems from fear of getting hit low, and to do that you need to be a good player. Overheads by themselves though…the idea that overheads punish low blockers…is false. They punish expectations, not actions. Whoever gets that probably sees the bigger picture.
you guys are missing the point of why overheads work. Yes, by themselves overheads are easy to block but thats totally irrelevant during mid game. Theres more going on than just blocking. You have to think about your gameplan, change it around if you eat some life, try to get the opponent to do something they don’t want, paying attention to wake up game, using character specific strategy, safe zoneing and I could just keep going.
The reasons why overheads work is because of the active threat of a low or a throw. Now, when your brain has to process multiple things and form a reaction, your reaction time is automatically slowed down. So even though the overhead themselves may be slow, during an in game scenario they become fast because of much information your brain has to process mid game.
get hit by enough lows and throws, I guarantee you that any player will eventually get hit by an overhead because they’re tired of being hit low. It happens to every player on this planet even high level players from japan.
then to add to that fact, you have to worry about being trained by your opponent which is a common way to lose.
I just don’t think most N American players have that sort of impact. One of the few players I’ve seen that makes me think “that guy can hit confirm everything” is Victoly. I dunno if he’s still like that now…
You are missing the point of the “discussion”, the discussion wasn’t just overheads, the discussion was about overheads as meaty. Well, the discussion was about Ken needing knockdowns to beast. Mihai read that, you didn’t.
startup/active/recovery
so that means 3 frames to start up, 6 frames it’s active, this means it can hit at these frames(this is kinda odd for an hadouken though) and 35 frames to recover.
It’s amazing how some FG players complain about this community not being mainstream. These same peope sit on forums waiting for someone to post something they consider stupid or innacurate just so they can have an excuse to talk bad to them.
Grow the fuck up. even if you disagree with him, it’s a damn VIDEOGAME at the end of the day anyway.
HP srk does less damage, only the 3 full hits do more damage then the full 2 hits from MPsrk. To keep your opponent on the ground you need to cancel HP srk at the second hit and MPsrk at the first, as a trainingmode session will show, MPsrk will be victorious on damage dealt and meter gained.
I’ll try that, thanks. If I confirm that to true, getting used to switching to MP for the SRK will take a minute. (using HP SRK for that combo is etched into my mind.)