Doesn’t mean Urien takes more skill then Ken. Whoops, I jumped into a strong fireball, I’m dead. Whoops, I got thrown into the corner and didn’t manage to block, there goes a chunk of my life and another unblockable setup probably. Whoops, I got hit by random EX headbutt and might get unblockabled now. If you really think about how a Urien beats a shoto this is usually it. The rest of the time he’s just running around trying to build meter and land random hits on shotos.
Ken has to put Urien in the corner and low short/low strong/low forward/stand strong/stand forward/basically any button/dash around/throw/overhead/super/etc… Urien to death. This is a chain of moves that just runs over Urien if done right. But he has no instant kill stuff. That’s why Urien is BS. Instant kill BS.
Instant Kill BS, lol. Come on though ED who gets hit by air fireball from Urien anymore. Scrubs maybe yeah. but the same ol unblockbale stuff u talk about u can get right out of it with a down parry cept for the corner ones…yeah those are cheap but you gotta know how to set it up. I didn’t get to do any of that stuff when I played you. I’d be better off trying to random headbutt and hope you try to grabb so I can Tryrant Slaughter you.
The headbutts are bs but man Ken dosn’t even need meter to win. At least Urien HAS to build meter to be somewhat of a threat. Or else I have to do try and put these stupid charge partions in so u dont know when I wanna headbutt but Ken can just upper at will no charge partioning let alone charging period. And I dont mean stupid random mindless uppering I mean to pop my limbs and pokes. Trust hes cheaper man. Ken just has so many options u think your working for the win but really its just a routine.
Yes, ken has so many options that judging the situation and choosing the best option you can each time takes alot of skill.
Just because Urien may have less options and therefore less opportunites to hit his opponent, that doesn’t mean that Urien takes more skill to play than Ken, it just means Urien may have less options and therefore less opportunites, and therefore Urien lives a harder life in 3S.
I think that if one considers Urien as weaker in the game of 3S than ken, that consideration doesn’t have to mean Ken is cheap or takes less skill to play than Urien, because if you follow the true line of that reasoning you will see that it ends up basically with you saying :
‘Urien has less overhead than ken and sometimes I hit my head on that overhead, and damnit that pisses me off.’
Maybe it’s not that Ken is too strong (or “cheap”) but that Urien’s ceiling is too low?
INVEST IN KEN:
The character who always brings to the battle more options, more choices, more thought, more decisions, more style, more satisfaction, and more downright fun.
Bah fuck Ken, all most of anyone does with him is turtle and crouching mid kick into super accordingly. I never even see setups for short short super, its like fools just walk up and try it and if it hits oh golly jee wizz batman super. The best shit I’ve seen from a US Ken was Ed Ma’s fake knee into strong fierce fireball super and Justin Wong’s low short wiff standing jab walk low short short super. Now thats pretty coo. But for the most part its just cross up blah blah grab,high strong, low strong blah blah. Remember that Joe kid, that was a Ken to watch. KFG, a Ken to watch. Masta J…well he wins. Try jumping every now and then, its not Tekken Ken players. What ever happen to his quote I will fight with style and finess no matter what the outcome? Style gets u killed aginst observers so hardly nobody does anything risky thats why.
I mean Urien is the last dudes brother of course hes gonna have some shit. But I still think his arsenol is way more limited then Kens thus making it easier for the Ken players to know what Urien wants to do.
umm how bout c.lk, stand up, c.lk, c.lk xx super, now thats a setup
anyway, ken needs to work for his wins, so what he has options? wow, a c.mk! your opponent must now be dead for sure!
anyway: look at the top 7 lets say
no particular order:
1: yun: his super does 70% or so *the usual BnB genei jin
2: chun: Uber-normals and her super is goodbye Ibuki and Akuma
3: Urien: an unblockable
4: Makoto: SA2 is 1hit combo for some chars and SA1 is too easy to link/cancel c.mk, s.mp, c.lp, c.lp, etc.
5: Dudley: Powerhouse, believe me, nuff said
6: Lets say Oro: Tengu Stone is really powerful, even block damage gets you killed, good pokes too
7: Ken: Ok, he has good pokes and lots of setups, good crossups still not a divekick though… and so what? His super doesnt do THAT abnormal amounts of damage… if you dont like the damage go play Q and taunt three times X_x
Ken IS skill, new gimmicks are found for every char everytime and his possibilities broaden, Ken has never evolved in such a way
So Urien sucks as to the skill level? lol Whatever you guys are dumb. You better had made up some gimmicks with Urien cause the old Tokido shit is not flying today.
I think Urien maybe whoop’n somebodys ass that hasn’t been playing as long as the Ken player so they getting mad.
Bottom line if your good enough u can almost win the same way with both of these characters. Super jump hey look at me I’m flying air parry something hurt em. standing short…grab then standing short…upper. Urien standing short…grab then standing short…elbow. Or standing short…sweep either character. Oh my God, its the same kick!! Same thing works. U can wiff grab with them and parry with Urien or upper with Ken. I may be getting off track, I’m not saying Urien is a shoto but they both can be played the same way as for grabbing and thats my most important style of play.
im not dissing urien in any way, i play him like 3rd of all the chars I play…
anyway: tokido shit IS flying, if you can get them in the corner, and what about RX? I saw sbo2 casuals of him vs ryo-chin and Match and if you look at his streak he was on 25… he btw did WALK, c.lk xx headbutt WHAT THE HELL? Urien can do all those tickthrows too, but Throwing is overrated in 3S, if you dont like throwing dont go play ST or something =/
Anyway: In the end skill is what you need for every character, I have to say that Ken has to work harder, he actually has to get his opponent to make a mistake so that he can capitalize, hes alot of dodging, secure whiffing, throw, etc. Whereas Yun can do alot of damage for a really small superbar and Chun… is just Chun
I guess I feel like Ken is easier than Urien cause I feel so free with Ken. Never in a tight situation. Maybe Ken is so natural to me I dont even notice it takes alot of skill to use him. Hes one of those characters where I can win and actually make it look cool on purpose rather than just trying to win. Hey somebody had to defend Urien. But my heart races when I’m fighting A ken in a tourney and I have Urien. Always thinking what if he pops my long ass arm or my long ass kick. Or what if he starts grabbing me to death preasuring me in the corner. The match is over subconsiencley before it starts. I know ED Ma is just rolling on the floor at how many time I’ve posted meaningless babble in this thread. I took the bait. I’m a sucker.
I never really looked at ken as being “cheap”, but more like him being “complete”. He definitely seems to be the most complete character in the game, as he has options for everything. The rest of the roster really just seems unserdeveloped.
Easy, you build meter during the rest of the combo. Since most of the rest of the combo is usally something that involves fierces and special moves, you build hella meter to try and reset with an ublockable.
Oh yeah, I was playing Arlieth the other day and I thinked I died no less then 5 times because I got grabbed once after having ridiculous leads. My fault though, I forgot I need to run the fuck away from Makoto cause she’s such a stupid BS whore.
Why are people even bringing up Twelve or Hugo or whatever. Who cares how much skill they take, they suck.
All the top tier need super to win. Half the reason they are top tier is cause of their supers. With the exception of Makoto and maybe Dudley and Urien since they can just kill you with EX’s. Makoto being the even more so exception in that she can get on a lucky roll and just wipe you out without EX’s. That’s why 3s matches often come down to meter bulding contests.
Anyway, I’ll repeat what I said in the first post about why Ken takes the most skill to win. Ken has NOTHING abusable. Nothing that when you hit a guy with, the guy mentally goes OH SHIT, I’M ABOUT TO LOSE.
He has no 100% combos, no free damage supers like Aegis or Genei, no kara throw, high low game is nothing compared to Dudley’s, no non-super knock down combo unless you are in the guy’s face (EX’s fireballs don’t even combo half the time), no linking low forward super, super doesn’t do much damage, super is never safe, super is easy to red parry, no safe throw bait move, no unblockables, no launcher into stupidly damaging combos, no grab from quarter of the screen away, no high stun combos, anti-airs aren’t so hot, no denjin, etc…
IMO, here’s what basically makes Ken top tier. His dash and walk speed, his shorts and sweep, his c. sp and c. forward (but only cause of the super), his super, and his jumping forward. That’s it. Does any of that actually seem ridiculously abusable/cheap to anyone? Ken has to keep knocking you on your ass to win. And if that’s super easy, fine that’s super easy and I take it back and Ken takes no skill.
Air EX tatsumaki makes the opponent have the fear to jump.
The MP - HP chain is great.
And random EX headbutts don’t get me anywhere when I play a good Ken.
He may not have 100%s or something hyper-abusable, but he has multiple good options in every situation. He never finds himself in a position where he has to clearly out-think the opponent to bring himself out of trouble, like i.e. a cornered Urien against Gouki Tatsu/demon flip lockdown.
I’m not saying he doesn’t take skill. A skilless ken doesn’t go anywhere. I mean that having sooo many options leads him to easier wins than most of the cast.
Yeah what he said, options make it easier…alot easier. Your not gonna land alot of elbows on good players. Your just not unless Urien parries everything. Its almost like u gotta hope they mess up all time with Urien but when I have Ken, I dont have to wait until they mess up I can start the fight instead of waiting on you.
Thats why I hate Ken players that wait. He has a ton of options you can create something to go get em.
And u know what will make me panic from Ken? Low forward srkx2 in the corner. Especially after cross ups. KFG is not the only person that does shit like that now. And it requires no super.