Thanks man. I appreciate the compliment.
Slap me silly? Psssh. With my Ryu, Honda=Easy mode.
You really need to be careful though because online lag and lp shoryukens can be dangerous to punish. I like to just sweep their ass before their feet touch the ground because it does decent damage and prevents quick recover which gives you time to think and setup an offense if you want to. If not, then it will give you time to back up a bit and start zoning them with fireballs, etc. If they can’t get in then they can’t shoryuken you and if you have the life lead they will need to get in to win. Ken’s fireball isn’t great but it is good enough for trading and keeping people out.
I’ve had to deal too much with SRK spamming before and lost a lot of matches to Kens, Ryus and even Cammys and it pisses me off. I’ve learned how to handle them better now and when I look at it I just see it as my lack of defense and a good opportunity to practice blocking and punishing. Grabbing is something I try to avoid online because LP shoryu spamming will mess you up if you go to grab. cr.mk will work just don’t try to do things that don’t combo and if you do you’re in for trouble.
I’ve got a simple question. If I’m doing a mirror match and I jump over the other Ken as he’s getting up and he does a wakeup ultra and it whiffs. Is there any way for me to punish him with an ultra or am I SOL? I was playing against someone today and it happened twice and my ultra whiffed twice. It’s as though when he lands and bends over his hitboxes move just far enough forward that my ultra whiffs.
Yo, DaWhiteShadow, fuck Honda he’s no problem … just throw some boxes at his ass :lol: [media=youtube]IGEJDKJdPGg#t=0m58s[/media]
Besides, Honda’s nothing but a Civic: [media=youtube]DljfihUGC5I#t=2m29s[/media]
Hui hui hui hui hui HEYYYYY
Yea I know. I just never faced anyone that spammed it so well so to speak. But he literally only used that move which pissed me off.
‘‘I’ve got a simple question. If I’m doing a mirror match and I jump over the other Ken as he’s getting up and he does a wakeup ultra and it whiffs. Is there any way for me to punish him with an ultra or am I SOL? I was playing against someone today and it happened twice and my ultra whiffed twice. It’s as though when he lands and bends over his hitboxes move just far enough forward that my ultra whiffs.
’’
That just depends, he can tbh also be QCF’ the side where you jump if he waits a small bit, so it will hit you that side. [the ultra]
But its pretty easy , cause for him to land takes like FOR EVER, so you can just dash, or simply walk under him to the side he leans forward. But dashing might help. But tbh it takes to long for him to recover, so just try to walk close, or jump over him actually (Although risky) and do it. But yea dash under him I would say.
Or just move closer, but I guess you knew that but you’re question was just if it could hit when he leans. Idk, try it in training, I would think so if you’re close enough.
Thanks man. I never actually thought of dashing under him but that’s a really good idea. I was just wondering if there was anyway to get into a position to punish with an ultra and that’s pretty much it. I though about jumping but I was a bit worried about how close I would land and how quickly I could do it. I never thought of walking up to him either I will try those both in training after school.
How many frames do you have with box throw on block? Start up time?
On the Ken mm, if he whiffs ultra like that can’t you just hit him on the way down and get FU. Like right before his feet touch iirc
Startup is about 5 frames but you have to charge it by picking up the boxes and it puts you at +30 frame advantage and dizzies the opponent on hit, +7 on block and you can rapid fire as many boxes as you charged with only a 1 frame startup after the first box throw.
From what I’ve tried in training mode it seems to work like this when you are punishing a whiffed ultra with an ultra from behind the opponent (all jump overs were tried from crossover position and also a bit closer):
- You do your ultra at the peak of their shinryuken = you only get the AA shinryuken
- You do your ultra when their feet are at your head level = you get full ultra
…- The best way IMO, because even if the trajectory of your jump puts you too far away to do ultra when they land, you can still hit their feet on the way down without moving - You do your ultra as their feet are near to the ground, they just touched the ground or they are still in the animation of bending over = you miss
- You do your ultra as soon as the crouch animation ends and they start standing back up or no longer moving downwards = you get full ultra
…- You will have to move in to do this probably otherwise you’ll be too far - Dash under then ultra = full ultra of course
…- Risky because depending on the trajectory of the jump you used to make them miss their ultra you might be too far to dash under them and it’s hard to tell where you’ll end up. You can walk forward as soon as block stun is over then dash - Jump over then ultra = works, full ultra
…- Same as dashing
Most of this is moot though because I doubt many of you will have to worry about punishing missed wake-up ultras but training mode was a PITA so I thought I might as well post the results up.
Box throw in Dash plz.
I was wondering this. Everytime I see a dude jumping in with something, a move, or bisons headstomp. I see people Doing Mid.Srk, and it always beats them. I usually do Lp, srk, and rarely even use mid. Srk.
But when I use light I always loose, or it clashes. So my question was, And I guess so, is Mid. Srk better when someone jumps in with a move? I guess more priority or something. It feels kinda like sagats uppercut, where he ducks and hits before the other one does, only this time slightly.
If so I’m using that way more.
Forget all about the existence of priority. Priority is just a short way of saying one move beats another but it’s much more complicated than the fact that one move has more priority than the other. To understand why you need to look at frame data:
Shoryuken LP
Startup: 4f
1~3f invincible
Shoryuken MP
Startup: 4f
1~6f invincible
Shoryuken HP
Startup: 3f
1~4f invincible
Shoryuken EX
Startup: 5f
1~11f invincible
So after the startup frames we have active frames, which are frames that the move hits on. Because of the way the wiki was written, the first hit of the move is the last startup frame.
For LP Shoryuken, you hit on the 4th frame and you are invincible from frames 1 to 3. Meaning that you are invicible only for startup, after that you can be hit by an opponent’s move. So for all the active frames you can be hit.
For MP Shoryuken, you hit on the 4th frame and you are invincible from frames 1 to 6. Meaning that for frames 4-6 (3 frames) you can hit the opponent and not be hit because you are invincible.
For HP Shoryuken, you hit on the 3rd frame and you are invincible from frames 1 to 4. Meaning that for frames 3-4 (2 frames) you can hit the opponent and not be hit because you are invincible.
For EX Shoryuken, you hit on the 5th frame and you are invincible from frames 1 to 11. Meaning that for frames 5-11 (7 frames) you can hit the opponent and not be hit because you are invincible.
This is why you use MP shoryu as anti-air instead of the others (excluding EX). I know it’s not that much better frame wise than the HP but looking at the damage for the MP you get 80+80 damage whereas with the HP you get 70+40+30. So if you only get the last hit because they’re high up then the MP will give you 80 damage (and you can follow up with another MP shoryu for 80 more damage) but the HP will only give you 30 damage for the last hit (plus another 30 if you do a second one). Plus one more frame of invincibility where you can hit the opponent and 2 extra frames of overall invincibility does help so you get better damage and more invincibility.
Note that the way hitboxes interact makes a difference as well, but unfortunately Capcom ommited hitboxes in training mode unlike Backbone (HDR) so it’s hard to present concrete evidence. Majority of shoryuken trading or getting stuffed is because of frames though.
Hope this helps :tup:
http://shoryuken.com/wiki/index.php/Street_Fighter_IV
Frame data at the bottom, just select the character you want.
Yea I figured it was Frame data I should read. I should read it over again, cause I already knew about the starup stuff but I still can’t understand it.
And I see more invincibility, major thanks! : D I will def. Use it more now. It doesn’t help only fighting bad ken’s lol. But good to see its easier to anti air with it now.
Edit: FADC Ultraing everyone on G2 feels to good =D It goes like 50 out of 50 times now. Feels good. I’m doing the FADC to ultra for fun a lot now and it mostly works, just wish it actually did damage to >_>
IT’s alright man, I still don’t understand most of the frame data :lol: I just recently figured out the basics I’m still trying to figure everything out though.
I need to practice my shoryu AAs, been using cr.hp a lot because it’s so easy 
but it trades a lot.
I’ve got a question, what is the use of the Tatsu, I’m still having a hard time incorporating it into my matches. Also, how do you perform a Kara Tatsu and what’s the point? Is it the same as a Kara Throw? Just giving extra range on the Tatsu?
I think the reason that a lot of Ken players use tatsus is because of the mixup options that it provides afterwards. Not only that, it puts you right up in the guy’s face (where you want to be against most of the cast).
Kara tatsus can only be done in the air. They’re pretty much for traveling across the screen (escaping from corners is a good use of it).
The kara tatsu is done with HK and if you do it right Ken won’t land right away you’ll see him floating forwards for a bit. It’s hard to picture but once you see it you’ll know right away what I mean.
Ah, preciate it. So basically I should stop ending all my combos with F.SRK and mix it up with tatsus -> throws/SRKs/blocks?
you dont want to end all your combos in tatsu’s, ofcourse you want the srk when they’re crouching but sometimes its nice to get the knockdown and mix up from there rather than the ex tatsu.
the tatsu is used to build meter and to dish out the damage either at the end of a hit confirm combo or in a punishment combo (cl. HK xx HK tatsu = 350 damage). tatsu is allways a more damaging finishing than a srk, but you end with your opponent standing right in your face which is either a good thing or a bad depending on how you look at it. (note, lk and hk tatsu put you at frame DISADVANTAGE, enough to eat a grab ultra for free, mk puts you even and ex gives you a 1 frame advantage)
to perform a kara-tatsu you jump into the air and do QCB +k ~ a different kick (i do lk ~ mk, where the ~ indicates a kara-input of the 2 buttons within 1-2 frames of each other, do a plink)
the point of kara-tatsu is to greatly alter your jump trajectory depending on when you use it, it also hits more times and thus while it’s an ex tatsu speed it doesn’t drop in damage to gain speed cause it can hit up to 5 times (could only be 4 but i’m pretty sure i have seen a 5 hitter). now what this does to the jump is it gives the horizontal speed of the ex tatsu and the downward drop of the normal tatsu (so the one i use of lk mk is very floaty and can cross nearly full stage if done at the right time) alternatively you can use kara-tatsu to make a tatsu cross up that wouldn’t otherwise, you can use it to whiz past a AA uppercut and hit them in the back of the head (great tool for cornering your opponent) or even just to glide up and over some characters fireball/ultra punishes.
edit: if you have the patience and the timing you could theoretically end all your combo’s in tatsu’s it’s a 1 frame link combo but it deals PAIN: c.lk* c.lp c.fp xx hk tatsu. builds good meter and punishes well.
also on some character models you can do c.lk* c.lp s.lp c.fp xx hk tatsu. this is a more lenient link.
- the lk needs to be omitted on characters with a smaller crouching hitbox, most notable is balrog.
quick question, is Ken’s EX Shoryu punishable with a throw? Whenever I try it I eat another shoryu.
Fast recovery on the Ex shoryu, if you see it your gonna want to have a punishment already for when he lands otherwise your probably gonna either eat another srk because they come out so fast 3? frame start up on f.srk so its probably owning whatever tool your trying to use to punish ex.shoryu with whatever character.
So you reckon it’s safest to just punish him out of the air with a HK?