Oh yeah, never sleep on st.mk. It’s just a risky button on whiff, especially against the females. I like using st.mk when my opponent is really getting predictable or is trying to abuse long range pokes to control space (which are usually slow on recovery). If they bait st.mk with a jab and know how to punish it then you’re in for some pain
Thanks Mocha. Ran into you a few times before in ranked, unfortunately I get PC-PS4 connectivity issues; like 1/3 of PS4s just stutter with me for no reason. I have the same issue with Saionide and he’s literally a few hours drive away lol. Capcom plz.
Those were some sick st.lk -> SRK punishes on his normals, I’ll definitely keep those in mind. And I liked that you approached from the air either using regular or EX.tatsu; I dunno if you were reacting, but twice you used EX.tatsu and twice you caught him going for the V-skill.
Overhead can be hard; the one he did to you in the video was punishable, but it’s easy for him to space such that st.lk whiffs.
What do you think about our blocked st.mk -> b.mp “frame trap”? At first I thought we were hitting it on the 3rd active frame or something and so getting +1; is it really just our 2f less blockstun on normals that’s letting us cheese people out? I’ve started moving away from it but in a scramble footsie situation (and especially if st.mk hits on the tip for some reason, maybe psychological) when the opponent’s been blocking for a while, it still works more often than not.
Interesting stuff. Went into FrameTrapped, and he definitely has huge hurtbox elongation on whiff. Like you said though, trying to space it enough in neutral to make him commit to it can be hard, and there’s always the threat of CC. I’ll definitely be doing Mocha’s st.lk -> SRK a lot more though.
Thanks again guys.
Posted in wrong thread, here’s Karin.
[quote=“jsfinis, post:330, topic:177797”]
Karin is tough. Not only does she completely outclass me on the ground, but I have to watch out for gimmicks like resets and random lp.Ressenha -> CA. She and Cammy have a fast walkspeed that makes their shimmy game fearsome too, esp Karin with her low-forward into Mujin confirms.
I thought I played as best as I could here; I had all the “tech”, so to speak. Aside from her continual st.hp -> shoulder (probably should’ve just pressed b.mp more), what was I messing up on? What should I have abused more?
Definitely should’ve taken the throw more, was not prepared for her godly shimmy. Taste of my own medicine.
[/quote]Man, looking back at it, Zach really sniffed me out and abused st.hp -> Sappo (command dash or whatever) a lot. I THINK pressing b.mp after the st.hp is the answer, I just dunno if he can vary up the timing so that shoulder either hits as a true blockstring or counterhits any normals or even delays so that the normal whiffs and I get hit.
It’s something to use once in a while. There is a 6f gap between them so it’s basically just a loose frame trap. It works best when you notice that they press a heavy or medium button after blocking so many of yours. They aren’t necessarily processing that they blocked st.mk, but that they are processing how many buttons they’ve blocked in the heat of the moment. After blocking 2-3 of ken’s buttons he is usually out of range to do anything and it’s mostly “your turn”. It makes sense to press cr.mk/hk, but in the heat of the moment you don’t always fully process blocking a st.mk which keeps ken closer and allows a follow up with a 4f medium, so even being -2 on st.mk there is the aspect of hesitation and auto pilot that this frame trap takes advantage of. That’s my theory anyways
[quote=“jsfinis, post:203, topic:178295”]
Posted in wrong thread, here’s Karin.
I just buffer DP everytime I block one of her normals and look for a cancel of anykind, if she cancels into upkicks then I mash out the reversal, if she cancels into dash then she gets hit in the face since it’s not a true block string, if she doesn’t cancel then I don’t commit to the dp, if it’s a sweep then I punish with lp. At least on paper, I don’t have that mastered (i’ve lost games to bronze karin players just trying to work on this) but I think it’s the right thing to grind in theory.
As I told Mocha:
I posted about Necalli and Karin; the funny thing is I don’t lose to them much at all, and even when I get stomped by something I don’t feel helpless. I just like theory-crafting how they could use their tools to potentially stomp me so I’m prepared. There are only two characters that make me want to kill myself: Nash and Sim.
Take Nash for instance.
Crash: Momochi beats Infil in random ft1s by drastically changing his playstyle (no fireballs, aggressively looking for the jump). Infil goes home, eats some kimchi, takes a shit, comes back and 3-0s Momochi in CEO winners finals, zero contest.
Dreamhack: Ricki’s sniffed out the Ken-Nash MU, picks Nash vs Saionide, is not prepared for Saionide playing the Momochi-style (going for the jump and not throwing fireballs). Saionide makes a big run, taking names and chewing bubble gum. NuckleDu sees how one-dimensional Sai is playing vs Nash; goes to get some food with Triforce, plays with his dogs, comes back and 3-0s Sai in losers finals, zero contest (Sai literally doesn’t win a SINGLE ROUND in 3 sets, fucking stomped).
I’ve labbed the shit out of both Nash and Sim. At some point I feel like I’m begging for every inch of health I take while they’re just scratching their ass knowing that for every painfully-crafted and situational answer I’ve ground out in the lab, they just gotta temporarily stop going to that one option and pick any of the gazillion other options they have against me… then I have to adjust my whole playstyle to that baneling bust and they just tech-switch back into mutas again. Or ultras. Or fucking swarm hosts since I’m scrambling trying to react perfectly to all their shit and their wheel of options.
The only thing I can say is that I’m glad I’m not Gief vs Nash b/c watching Jayce stomp both Stupendous and SnakeEyez that one tourney just reminded me that no matter how bullshit I have it, someone else has it worse.
https://youtube.com/watch?v=j3x7-uCI4Qg
Ran into my first Balrog in ranked. I’m hoping Vframes comes out with his frame data soon, I felt like I was flying blind and playing on instinct. I have no idea when I can actually press and just did so based on how punishable things looked/felt.
FYI
Balrog FD
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1mU4ZsruzStZ_Xbns9c-1hyWKls0SGGsOP92bLqggG2Q/edit#gid=1613521397
Ibuki FD
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1_YAzMz00ASTDCQrnppWwYICbPwjonTGnrlYS_Me4VtI/edit#gid=0
if you’re trying to figure out what you can/ can’t punish / when to press etc. I’m sure Vframes will update very soon, but I’ve been using this in the meantime
Can someone please help me out with this matchup? Besides all the trouble I have in neural, the meaty timing being a bit jarring doesn’t help at all.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=yOpQidCWEM4
I have been playing against a Birdie at work, and man that matchup is brutal, Birdie has so many tools to keep Ken in check. Anyone has tips against this matchup, and is it as bad as I think?
Neutral can be a little brutal. Fireballs outside of Birdie’s poke range can be beat by bullhorn, so you definitely have to be careful. If he isn’t showing you that, then you’re good. Try to get a good read on his pokes, since they’re really slow, that means they are susceptible to being jumped on. Birdie doesn’t really have a solid answer to Ex tatsu, so you have that on your side, as well as cross up regular tatsu to beat cmp sometimes. Once you’re in, it’s HEAVILY in your favor. Birdie is free on wake up.
Make sure you have your punishes down, if you block bullhead, you can punish with DP, if you block fhp at certain ranges you can punish with smk shk target combo, or just use hp dp for consistency.
What’s been working for you guys when you pressure Balrog ? Cuz waiting for him to come sounds like a terrible idea
Jumping
Don’t jump forward at him too often, his st.mp and cr.fierce are godlike. Cr.fierce can beat out ex tatsu from a lot of ranges. Jump in regular air tatsu can beat both if timed properly.
If you’re talking pressure then it’s literally the same way you pressure any other char. Except you can disrespect Balrog way more since he has no reversal and a slow v-rev.
Naturally shoto’s just lose against Balrog in neutral. Use well timed jabs to check dash straights, b.mp buffer tatsu to catch limbs etc
Bull dog into the range where dash straight is unsafe. There, you can fish for sweeps and crush counter hk. Go ham once you get a knockdown but keep in mind that throws are riskier against Boxer than most other characters because of his godlike vertical jump HP.
any tips vs guile? this mu feels like it requires mother theresa levels of patience.
In this matchup i think ken has the upperhand. standing medium punch buffered into fireball stuffs most of his dash punches clean even ex. Boxer cant punish light tatsu reversal well at all. it recovers too quickly. standing heavy kick at the tip of the foot reaches further than any of boxers normals and counters often. Boxer has an incredibly small throw range. After a knockdown i condition him to tech 2 or 3 times before going for shimmy standing Heavy punch into whatever. At this point in the match the boxer is more scared of my offense so be ready for the vreversal. jab option select light tatsu/grab that shit. The last thing i think is strong is ex fireball in this match up. Boxer approaches very linearly and predictably. what separates good boxers from new boxers is their approach. If they are “bull headed” in thinking they can only approach with dash punch the round is yours, however if they actually know how to footsie be less yolo with light tatsu unless at max distance of dash punches.
patience. respect guiles wakeup flashkick. pester him at the close range with max range standing medium punch/standing medium kick/crouching medium punch. standing heavy kick seems to lose quite often to his backhand heavy punch be aware of that. air ex tatsu to get in. try to bait out his flashkick for CC heavy punch>run>tc1>H.shoryu(>super).
What are the negative frames on Trigger Bull Heads again? IIRC they all become -8, even on the HP one, but maybe the spacing is weird or something. I know Birdies start spamming it when they go into trigger.
Vs Sim: How’re you guys dealing with Sim’s slide, he just slides under all my jump-ins. The obvious answer is don’t jump, but if there’s an option I’ve got to deter him from just going to that I’d like to know.
Also, what up with positive dives? I’ve had some luck having a trigger finger on lp.srk if I see him go up, but then this other Sim started jumping forward into the vertical (hk?) dive, and that shit is vicious since it comes down on my head, as if it wasn’t hard enough to react to already. Do I just run away from him in that close low-forward range, b/c I have no idea how he gets positive pressure at the range he’s supposed to struggle.
In fact, any notes vs Sim would be appreciated.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=tfSLvnYNzvk
This is how I approach a good guile, the key is to walk forward however tempted you might be to dash in or jump forward. Also it’s very very important to be mindful of his normals range, cause otherwise you’d be putting a lot of effort to get in only to be get hit and pushed away Again.
this is a horrible example of how to fight guile. you won but probably shouldnt have.