I think both Ken and Ryu look fantastic.
I totally disagree with some people saying Ryu needs a lot of work because Ken looks so much better.
That’s something that totally lies in the eye of the beholder. I personally gonna have a hard time choosing between the two and I like how different they are from each other even though both a shotos.
I can respect that I don’t know I just feel he needs something, not necessarily something huge, maybe the ability to dash cancel his charge fireball during v trigger? A la x tekken?
Yes, but it’s back st mp > Hp now I think
I do too, but not sure what that would be. Maybe give him back the ability to cancel sweep into something, like he had in ST
What’s also nice is that I was at first worried that there’s no fireball game in SFV because Bison, Charlie and Cammy had easy ways around fireballs, but it seems that is not the case for all characters and I hope other characters than those revealed so far won’t get easy get out of fireball pressure cards.
naw Ryu just needs to be able to pick shin shoryuken. In this game, fireball xx shin shoryuken would actually be an amazing bait.
The characters that don’t have a way around fireballs have projectiles of their own so far. And it’s kinda sad that every super (except for bison) kills fireballs.
Though ken can’t use his tatsu to get around fireballs like ryu can.
They could make his hair like this:
I’m consolidating all the information from the gameplay vids of Ken so far.
Ken:
Overview:
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[] Looks extremely offensive based with a variety of movement options that are fast.
[] His neutral stance is completely changed. Ken looks very loose and confident/arrogant/cocky which fits his personality more, imo.
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All time stamps I’ve listed are in reference to the below video, however, I’ll reference to a few other videos by name and I’ll link below as well.
Official Ken Reveal:
Max vs Combofiend:
More Combofiend Ken:
Nerdjosh vs Max:
Gameplay/Testing Video:
Normals:
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[] s.Jab - The same s.Jab he’s been using since forever. Visually it looks closest to his s.Jab from SF3. Can hit crouching characters and has pretty good range. 0:32mark.
[] cr.Jab - Pretty much the same cr.Jab he’s had in Alpha and SF3. His left elbow is raised slightly more at an angle in SFV. It doesn’t seem like there’s much block stun on it since Cammy could reversal DP in between cr.Jab, s.Jab. 0:52 mark.
[] s.Short - This has been changed slightly in SFV. The animation is a reversed angle of his s.Short from the Alpha 1+2, SF3, and SF4. The range looks good and it’s special cancel-able. Combos into short Tatsu. 0:37 mark.
[] cr.Short - The animation has been completely changed from his cr.Short in ST, Alpha, SF3, and SF4. It looks like it has good range. You can chain 2 of them together but after wards the opponent is pushed back too far. 0:34 mark.
[] s.Strong - Visually it’s similar to his s.Strong in SF3 and his far s.Strong in SF4. 0:45 mark.
[] cr.Strong - It looks the closest to the Alpha series cr.Strong but his right leg is more extended. It looks like a good combo starter since it can link into his b+Strong~Fierce target combo. 2:04 mark.
[] s.Forward - Same s.Forward from Alpha and SF3. It looks like it’s a good poke but whiffs on crouching characters at farther ranges. 1:11 mark in the Max vs Combofiend video.
[] cr.Forward - The animation is completely different his cr.Forward in ST, Alpha, SF3, and SF4. In terms of its function it’s still the same function as those versions. Good footsie tool and is special cancel-able. 0:50 mark.
[] s.Fierce - Same as his s.Fierce in SF3 and far s.Fierce in SF4. Has a lot of hit stun and can link into his s.Strong after wards. 0:34 mark in the official reveal trailer.
[] cr.Fierce - Not sure if this is his c.Fierce or a command normal. Visually it looks like his s.Strong from Alpha. Looks like a good AA tool at closer ranges. It forces stand on hit. 0:17 mark on the “More Combofiend Ken” video.
[] s.RH - Same as his s.RH in ST, Alpha, SF3, and his far s.RH in SF4. It’s his crush counter, V-Skill, and V-Trigger cancel-able. 0:30 mark in the “More Combofiend Ken” video.
[] cr.RH - His sweep has been revamped completely. Visually he sweeps with his opposite leg in the opposite direction than previous SF games. It causes a knockdown on hit. 2:54 mark.
[] j.Forwad - Same j.Forward he’s had since the Alpha series. It’s still his standard cross up tool.
[] j.RH - It’s the same j.RH he’s had in the Alpha series. 0:29 mark on the official reveal trailer.
[] j.Fierce - Completely new looking jumping normal. It’s kind of looks similar to his j.Strong in SF4. 0:34 mark on the official reveal trailer.
[] j.Short - The animation seems modified but it resembles his neutral jump Short from ST/Alpha. Seems like it has a high hitbox on it so it might be good in the air-to-air game. 0:59 mark in the Nerdjosh vs Max video.
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Command Normals:
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[] b+Strong - It’s the same as his close Strong in the SF3 series. 0:41 mark on official reveal trailer.
[] b+Forward (MK) - His overhead kick. The input is the same as SF3 but the animation is more like SF4’s version. It only hits once. 1:39 mark on the gameplay video.
[] f+Forward/RH? (MK/RH) - If you tap/press his f+MK you get his step into overhead. 2:56 mark on the gameplay video. Not sure if you press MK or RH to get since I’m hearing conflicting reports between this vid and Max.
[] f+[Forward/RH] (MK/RH) - Holding down MK gives you the fake kick. 2:33 mark on the gameplay video.
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Specials:
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[] Hadouken - Looks standard fireball at this point. Unsure of the start up, recovery, and speed of the fireballs between the various versions. EX version is 2 hits and does not knockdown on hit. 0:26 mark on the official reveal trailer…
[] Shoryuken:
[list]
[] Jab - It’s pretty much the same as the Jab version of previous games. It hits once, causes a knockdown, doesn’t travel far horizontally & vertically. It’s good for countering pokes if you make a read and is used as a combo filler in V-Trigger. 0:47 mark.
[] Strong - Similar to the SFIV version of his Strong SRK. It hits twice, causes a knockdown, travels farther horizontally & vertically. Appears to be his primary anti-air SRK with start up invincibility. 0:24 second mark.
[] Fierce - Similar to the Fierce version of previous games. It hits three times, causes a knockdown, travels even farther horizontally & vertically. Has the trademark trailing fire effect that he’s had for the longest time. Appears to be used as a combo ender with some inconsistent anti-air properties. 0:29 second mark.
[] EX - Ken does Shoryureppa from ST, Alpha series, 3 series, and SFIV. He actually says Shoryureppa when he does this and does two reps of it. Basically, he does two shoryuken’s; the first one is like his Jab SRK and then he does his Fierce SRK. 0:36 mark on the official reveal trailer.
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Tatsu - The properties of his Tatsu is different from SFIV. The biggest change is that it hits crouching opponents and causes a knockdown.
[list]
[] Short - Does one spin, doesn’t travel far, does 2 hits, and causes a knockdown. Looks like a combo ender off of light confirms. 4:00 mark on the gameplay video.
[] Forward - Does two spins, travels a bit farther, does 3 hits, and causes a knockdown. 1:29 mark in the Max vs Combofiend video.
[] Roundhouse - Underwent a huge change in SFV. It hits upwards at a 45 degree angle before bringing them back to the ground. It does 4 hits and causes a knockdown. Looks strictly a combo ender off of heavy confirms based on the vids so far inferring the start up is kind of long. Might be good for corner carry. 0:18 mark on the official reveal trailer.
[] EX - Looks like a powered up version of his RH tatsu. Hits at the 45 degree upwards angle that the RH version does. It does 4 hits and causes a knockdown. Looks like a combo ender as well. The start up is faster than the RH version and you can combo into it from Medium normals. 1:25 mark on the gameplay video.
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[]Air Tatsu - The normal versions travel downwards like Ryu’s. It doesn’t appear cross up Tatsu is possible with normal and EX versions. Normal versions cause a knockdown on hit.
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[] EX - Underwent a complete change in SFV. Ken still travels in a downwards 45 degree angle but it’s essentially a dive kick-esque move meant for combos rather than a tricky mix up in itself. It does one hit and launches the opponent on hit and puts them in a juggle state. You can combo into DP after wards or you can go for tricky resets such as s.Jab xx V-Skill, cross over, cr.Short. Not sure if it’s height restricted or if you can TK this. 0:44 mark in the official reveal trailer.
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V-Skill: Quick Step (Funjinkyaku)
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[] Pressing MP+MK causes Ken to run towards the opponent.
[] The run is a set distance and cannot be cancelled out of earlier than the set distance.
[] He can cancel into his V-Skill from specific normals.
[] He’s not at frame advantage when doing this from block so the opponent can punish Ken during the run.
[] He can cancel the run into normals, throw, or Step Kick.
[] Not sure what the button sequence is to cancel into Step Kick. This is the only way he can do his Step Kick.
[] The Step Kick is the only way he can build his V-Gauge, aside from taking damage.
[] On block, the Step Kick builds around 5% of one V-Gauge stock. Looks unsafe on block at close ranges.
[] On hit, the Step Kick builds about 75% of one V-Gauge stock.
[] On hit, the Step Kick causes a knockdown.
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V-Trigger: Heat Rush
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[] His V-Gauge is 3 stocks so it’s the same as Bison & Birdie, at the moment.
[] When he activates his V-Trigger he automatically dashes allowing for combo extensions.
[] It doesn’t seem like he follows the previous established rules of V-Trigger cancels, which was special cancel-able normals and select specials. I saw Ken be able to V-Trigger cancel his s.RH and that doesn’t appear to be special cancel-able.
[] He can V-Trigger cancel his Hadouken and Shoryuken.
[] The auto dash from his V-Trigger activation is unsafe if done raw or from blocked normals/specials. DP xx V-Trigger on block is a free combo punish for the opponent.
[] Adds fire effects to his feet.
[] Adds fire effects to all of his specials, increases their range, adds more hits, and changes various properties.
[] Opponent gets lit on fire whenever a V-Trigger special connects.
[] His fireballs causes knockdowns on hit.
[] DPs recover faster for new combo options such as Jab DP, EX DP. Fierce DP does 5 hits instead of 3.
[] Short Tatsu either knocks the opponent higher up or has faster recovery, as you can combo into EX DP afterwards.
[] Air EX Tatsu is now 2 hits and does not launch the opponent on hit. Can combo into s.Strong after wards.
[*] Tatsu hitbox seems improved as you’re able to do cross up Tatsu’s in V-Trigger.
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V-Reversal: Senpu Nata Otoshi
[list]
[] Ken does a leaping flame kick.
[] Probably performed by doing f+3K on block.
[] It doesn’t knockdown on hit.
[] 0:28 mark on the official reveal trailer.
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Target Combos:
[list]
[] b+Strong~Fierce - Same target combo he had in 3S and SFIV but the input is slightly different. The Fierce punch forces stand on hit. You can special cancel out of it. 2:03 on the “More Combofiend Ken” video.
[] s.Forward~RH - A new target combo off of his s.Forward. The RH sequence whiffs on crouching characters. It seems like you can special cancel out of it. 0:39 mark on the reveal trailer and 1:32 mark in the Max vs Combofiend video.
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Combos:
[list]
[] cr.Short, s.Jab xx Fierce DP
[] s.Jab, b+Strong~Fierce xx Hadouken/DP/Tatsu
[] cr.Forward xx Hadouken/Short, Forward, or EX Tatsu
[] cr.Forward xx Fireball xx Critical Art
[] cr.Forward xx Critical Art
[] cr.Strong, b+Strong~Fierce xx Hadouken/DP/Tatsu
[] b+Strong~Fierce xx Hadouken/DP/Tatsu
[] b+Strong Fierce xx Hadouken xx Critical Art
[] b+Strong~Fierce xx Hadouken xx V-Trigger, b+Strong~Fierce xx Jab DP, EX DP
[] b+Strong~Fierce xx Jab DP xx V-Trigger, EX Tatsu
[] b+Strong~Fierce XX EX Hadouken xx V-Trigger, s.Forward~RH xx EX Fireball
[] cr.Forward xx Fireball xx V-Trigger, b+Strong~Fierce xx DP, EX DP
[] Air EX Tatsu, V-Skill dash xx Jab DP xx V-Trigger, Jab DP, EX DP
[] V-Trigger active - s.Fierce, s.Strong xx Short Tatsu, EX DP
[] V-Trigger active - Air EX Tatsu (2), s.Strong, cr.Forward xx EX Tatsu
[] s.RH (Crush Counter) xx V-Skill, cr.Jab, etc… - Combofiend does cr.jab, s.Jab and nothing else. Might be possible to do b+Strong~Fierce after the V-Skill.
[*] s.RH (Crush Counter) xx V-Trigger, s.Fierce xx Hadouken/DP/Tatsu
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I agree Ryu doesnt need drastic changes. He suppose to play differently. I just wish he had a Donkey kick. It would help with his zoning game a lot!
Donkey Kick never helped Ryu’s zoning game and was always just kind of his appendage move that extended combos at best. Ryu’s zoning game still looks significantly stronger than Ken’s especially once he hits V Trigger.
Ken does a good enough job being the aggressive version of Ryu without completely borrowing Ryu’s special moveset this time. He feels like his own character while still having enough shoto things to make him recognizable.
Of course it never helped his zoning game. The last time he actually had a Donkey kick was in 3s. duhhhh
For SFV it would be a get out of my face special, go across the screen or corner and now deal with my V-Trigger fireballs. Which will help with his zoning and setups in SFV.
But the Donkey Kick was something. It was a new move that further defined the shoto’s and made them very apparently different. You take away the Donkey Kick and the Denjin super and Ryu in 3S would just be a shitty version of Ken.
Donkey Kick could work in SF5 if it keeps the wall bounce off EX. It would mix up his gameplay a bit too; if you get in you could spend meter to do really good damage from an EX Donkey Kick into SRK or whatever (or maybe go for a reset). Or you could hold back and save the meter for a Fireball/Denjin Fireball super.
Right now, I don’t see a good reason as to why (as Ryu) you would spend meter. Unless meaties interrupt wakeup shit and you need to do EX SRK to get them off of you. Or you want to blow meter on EX Hadou to make yourself safe or frame trap them and get some decent damage or quickie Denjin.
I think what makes Ryu different is less. He was always the character you could go to if you didn’t want to have a ton of things and just focus on a consistent gameplan that was laid out to you. Parries and denjin fireballs should give him enough ability to be unique to use and fight against as no one else in the game has his level of zoning in V Trigger while also being able to fight fireballs and attack options with a parry. You’ll have to approach Ryu very uinquely compared to other SF games which should be interesting to see play out.
I’m always been of the opinion never take anything away, i’ve not got a problem with changing or replacing one move with another, but to just remove it . yeah donkey kick was shit outside of ex, but at least when you had it you could use it for good damage or resets.
I kinda wish they kept kens old bastard R.E.D kick from cvsnk2
True, but the Parry as-is has limitations. He can’t use it in the air and he cannot do bnb shit from it. Best he could do off of it (for right now) is SRK or fireball super.
I’m in favor of differentiating the shoto’s as much as humanly possible and making EX Donkey Kick have wall bounce would force the newbies to think how to use meter.
Uh, Street Fighter X Tekken. He had the kick there
Ryu wasnt a zoning type character in that game. Not like he is in SFV.
His get out of my face special is his DP. If you want to send them across the screen you hit them with tatsu. If you want to zone, you throw fireballs.
What do you need donkey kick for?
Have you ever played 3s? Cause last I checked dp or tatsu don’t have the same properties as a Jourdan kick. I used it for tons of setups and stun.
What I don’t understand why are you even arguing against giving a character more tools? Now that’s the real question.