Karin General Thread: Elegant offense for a more civilized age

Street Fighter V Karin
1461

I guess the tradeoff is that VT actually adds a good amount of damage if it’s already active when the combo starts, but if you actually use the VT cancel during the combo itself, you don’t actually get much of a boost (VT cancel actually hurts the combo if you use EX moves in it.) The best thing about the cancel is the free hitconfirm.

Considering how important it is to keep people off you, the idea makes sense. At least, it seems necessary to make good use of rekka in neutral, or else get multiple VT combos, to make it really worth it.

Looking at hitboxes, rekka seems particularly good as a high crush. I’m not sure what most of the shoulder paragraph was about (x-up when? first hit of what?) but it does at least have a disjointed forward-moving hitbox. And EX launcher’s hitbox is hilarious compared to most anti-airs, so I guess it’ll be an excellent reaction move against neutral jumps at least.

1462

PR Balrog dropped a DP input? Is this drunk-rog?

1463

VTC definitely increases the damage of the combo if you use it to go into a heavier normal; stuff like linking anything into st.hp. In addition, juggle Rekkas give you a 173 damage ender which is better than anything else out there. So unless you aren’t going into juggle for some reason it’s going to add damage

1464

I gimmicked him out hardcore in that second round, haha

1465

Great Karin and great comeback!

1466

He had no idea wtf happened, but hey, that shit works sometimes whe you never use it.

1467

Yeah I don’t know why I typed “first” hit. I meant that even if they block in neutral it’s OK because they can’t do much afterwards, and if they try something with a slower normal they risk eating a x-up as you jump over their poke.

1468

I did notice that some of the wiser players have started doing reversal throws when they block something negative, because the users of the negative moves have had it beaten into them that their offense is over after using the move. Aside from the Rashid/Vega players who just keep looping their roll/spin like it’s +frames.

I recall that the more meter you spend on the combo the more the VT cancel hurts it, to the point where it’s actually bad for damage to VT during the combo if you spend multiple bars. This is ignoring super because of the minimum scaling, just EX moves. EX juggles will be more common as time goes on I think - need to keep the corner position and build the stun.

1469

There are usually better options than reversal throw since it only starts in 5f, but throws don’t work against a blocked shoulder because it leaves you too far. Tsumuji actually used the very thing I was talking about in that match vs PR Rog. Rog tries a low poke (cr.mk, I think?) after a blocked shoulder but Tsumuji jumps over it and goes for the x-up. It’s a move you have to try to stop before it comes out instead of trying to tech the command dash into throw option, which is also something he was using for conditioning.

1470

I personally always saved the meter for V-reversal against Bison/Vega/Karin players to get them off me.

Other than that I mostly V trigger on: Jump-in H.k/M.k -> St. H.k -> VT -> Cr. H.p -> Tenko -> Rekka into overhead. Which gives me a great cross-up afterwards.

1471

At 1m 19 s, you can see karin trade a special move (orochi) trade with the normal of necalli (stand hk)

1472

I have a theory that certain moves can trade if they connect on later active frames, but I’ve never bothered trying to prove/disprove it. In training mode I once traded a medium and hard attack, but I couldn’t reproduce it. I just gave up after a while.

1473

Is this supposed to be special in some way? I know there is the normal priority system but i dont think it apples to specials.

You can even get a combo from it if you trade with a light attack:

at 40s

https://youtu.be/JdPNkJrT5lE?t=40s

1474

do you guys think ppl will use a lots of jump in vs Karin, because she has not that great anti airs? (except ex Ressenha, but yeah, that’s one bar).
Or you can just sit and block, like Tsumuji does.

1475

I mean if you know how to block then you can block. It’s just you’re constantly blocking something that basically gives the opponent a free frame trap and potential cross up if they’re using something that crosses. It’s not like blocking on the ground where you can stay patient and just look for an overhead that won’t go into anything and tech throws. The one time you are dealing with a jump cross/fake cross that you forget to eye or is literally unseeable, you’re most likely going to take a combo.

The game is designed so that blocking during grounded pressure is more viable and you can deal with that as long as you tech your throws and watch overheads accordingly. Getting thrown one time won’t lead to a trip to Setplay City. Just I wouldn’t try that from against airborne pressure so much.

Better than simply blocking I would just use your movement and walk under and try to hit a button or just space yourself for the next AA. With characters like Chun and Vega you definitely see them using neutral jump normals to AA as well. Mess around with some normals during a neutral jump and see which may be best if your ground options are feeling risky. I know some people have been talking abou using s.LP sometimes as well.

1476

In the long term, your ground game is only as good as your antiair. Take that lesson from SFxT if nothing else.

So no, “just blocking” is a bad idea. But keeping yourself out of the dangerous ranges would help. If worst comes to worst, you can take a strategy of reacting to crossups with command dash, which low-profiles the jump-in and brings you to safety, at expense of positioning.

Standing jab is very good against close jumps, but has to be done late. That’s both a negative and a positive though - it means you can do it late and still succeed. Realizing that this normal existed reduced my anti-air worries by a lot.

At slightly further range from ideal jab AA range, standing fierce would clean-hit just about everything even from Zangief’s various jump-in options. But the range where this is the best AA is fairly small.

At these two ranges, jump back MP is probably her best air-to-air button. Jump jab is slightly faster and the hitbox is aimed upwards, which may be a bad or a good thing. Jump MK/RH had more range but also worse hurtboxes.

For further ranges than that, extending into max-range jump-ins, low fierce tended to be a steady option. Although you could catch some of those long-range j.RH with oddball things like s.MK, I wouldn’t rely on it.

If you’re ready to use it, probably the best AA for max-range jump-ins is instant launcher because it also works against empty jumps. EX launcher will also work and give you juggles, which is a nice way to call out people who are trying to bait a low fierce with an empty jump, or people who neutral jump trying to catch you doing something.

I don’t really like using EX reversal for an anti-air because other options will usually work, and it’s not any better against crossups than the fierce buttons are (whiffs often), but it is the most reliable way to deal with divekicks, and it’s also the only thing that’s going to work if you’re too late with your reaction to get a normal AA out in time.

1477

The rule in 3.3 say that it applies to special too

http://www.capcom-unity.com/street_fighter/go/thread/view/7411/28670443/understanding-tradespriority-in-3rd-strike

1478

And that’s not how it works here. It was pointed out from the very beginning when the discovery was made.

1479

Karin’s st.lk can be used to escape very tight cross-ups on wakeup. Her hurtbox retracts and the x-up whiffs.

1480

I can’t wait till this comes out!