First 2 hits of her rekka are one move that always happens. We don’t know how safe the followups are except the P ender which is very negative.
The slide ender is locked behind VT. Jury’s out if it’s safe or not.
Actually the ender is outside of VT too. It’s the low ender for her overhead. It looks very unsafe from what I’ve seen. Again thanks to no pushback on block…
You could always be vocal about it on Capcom Unity (preferably there) or Twitter or something else (as long as you’re respectful about it). Inspire other Karin fans to talk about it, possibly offer a reasonable alternative to her V-Trigger. Considering they probably think having her Rekka options available to her normally is too strong, I’d suggest a mild/weak V-Trigger. Then hope that other fans are reasonable as well. Things can change, but only if you act sooner than later.
I was watching a stream and I could swear she did a slide after a rekka, I’m sure of it. The name of her slide ender is certainly not in her move list though
Damn!
You got who you wanted finally and all you do is whine?
Bison had the move as a Super in the Alpha games.
Guren Kusabi, yeah it’s there.
Too early for this to be nominated for scrubquotes?
Completely different game and system smart one.
You’re right. It’s an ender in and out of VT.
Not really, you think 3S, CvS2, and MvC2 were terrible games? They had a pretty defined set of ‘This is what wins, play these characters or gtfo’ at high level. CvS2 and MvC2 having teams kept that interesting though by having a crap ton of permutations by mixing stuff up. SF2 was like that for many versions and even in Turbo there is a well defined top tier, though even the top tier can lose against lower characters if they get in hot water if there was an Evo style tournament I’d be surprised if Vega, Dhalsim, Balrog, or O. Sagat didn’t win the whole thing.
Melee is also like that with 5 characters that are the only semi-competitive ones and in the vast majority of modern tournaments Fox wins the whole thing. There are more games that are like that, but those are the most well known imo.
I prefer interesting meta game over character balance. SFIV has better character balance but the meta game and strategies in the game are extremely bland to me. I’m still not sure how people have fun playing it, but it is competitive.
Lol I like balance over interesting meta. I just like… Interesting balance. Having a game that is balanced and yet fun isn’t an oxymoron. Homogeneity can still create fun unique interactions. In fact. Homogenity has created some of the most fun games out there… System wide mechanics like throw breaking, negative penalty, superjumping, etc etc that affect the entire cast have made games more and more fun. Sf4s problem in a nutshell is its defensive systems override it’s offensive systems and force players to use vortex strategies/option selects/ characters with terrible pokes that have vortex, to compete well.
I still think capcom is largely making some of the same exact mistakes with 5 as they are with 4.
One of the hallmarks of old school streetfighter was the speed/pushback/safety of pokes in general.
4 and 5 have done away with much of that and reduced games into walk fests. Which isn’t so bad if the walk is fast…
On topic:
This version of karin could see me main her over Chun. I’m liking everything about karin right now, she seems kinda BS in her current form.
I have read most of this thread and signed up just to post because all you guys do is bitch about the same shit over and over again. Karin lost this, Karin lost that…
It’s a new game, instead of looking back try looking forward. The better way to look at SF5 Karin is, does she have the tools to win?
That answer is yes.
Every single normal she has looks amazing, you guys need to stop focusing on the special moves and look at the normals, that’s what decides a good character. She has plenty of speed, range, and priority on all her buttons.
Her low forward looks amazing, great range and cancelable
Her stand mk is still unknown if cancelable like in alpha but the range still looks OD
Her sweep looks like sf4 chun tier
Her crouch hp looks like the best normal button anti air so far. Like sf4 sakuras on steroids
Her stand hp is now cancelable and still a decent situational anti air
Her lights can be linked into mediums
And her medium punches can link as well
Her walk speed still looks amazing and her throw range doesn’t seem small either
Why am I mentioning this all? Because these are the things you need to look at if you plan on playing a heavily footsies based character, which Karin is.
Everyone is so tied up looking at her rekkas and crying about it being vtrigger locked when they don’t realize her rekkas aren’t even that good and are just going to be combo filler and chip damage and maybe the occasional on hit reset shenanigans
Her rekkas are potentially unsafe on block on every variation, but even then, the on block mix up is completely negated by a mashed dp, but you can bait with back dash. Know what that means? It’s not a mix up… it’s either bait the dp or get hit by it trying to mix up the ender for less then 100 damage.
What you should be focused on is looking how you can win rounds without vtrigger at all and have that as icing.
Karin is going to have to play footsies, you are going to have to understand how to control spacing. You will have to walk into your opponents poke ranges (your going to have to know what those are too) and then dance in and out trying to get him to poke and extend and whiff so you can hit it with a cr.mk xx command dash launcher > vskill/another launcher/up kicks. From there you utilize that knockdown and corner carry to work some okizeme on their wake up and keep pushing them to the corner until they are dead. Activating v trigger should be exclusively mid combo where you can continue comboing with it, or to build on your lead you have made and to pressure and chip with low mk xx rekkas xx back dash. It’s the icing not your bread and butter.
If you find they aren’t whiffing buttons and are turtling a bit then you can pro actively poke with a button into light up kicks or into shoulder if it’s safe, or just raw buttons since they do Grey chip
In my honest opinion, I think a lot of the people looking to main Karin will drop her after a couple weeks, she will not be a popular online character after 1 month but you will see her a fair bit in the offline/tournament scene. She’s going to need patience, excellent spacing and whiff punishes to get anything going and that’s not something a lot of people are good at especially if online is all they play, where it’s nearly impossible to win on those means consistently. So for everyone looking to play Karin please keep in mind this is an extensive reactionary whiff punish footsie heavy char dictated by her moveset and normals so don’t expect to do well online or blame the character.
And if you don’t take my word for it because I’m a 1 post scrub who clearly must be ass at fighting games, let’s look at the footage of this year’s evo and capcom cup champ Momochi playing karin on the reveal day. Momochi is someone with excellent fighting game and footsie fundamentals, so he is a great example
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=guY5C4sZC-M
As you can see in the first match, Momochi has little to no experience with karin in sf5 since this was within the first couple hours of reveal of her, he doesn’t know the entire ranges of all her normals or all the combos or frame data, but he is going up against ryu, who he is plenty familiar with since his staple design has been the same and fighting against ryu has been the same in almost every game, and what does Momochi do when he plays? For the most part when he’s not messing around trying to feel out karin moves or tools, he stays just outside of ryus sweep range, waits for ryu to whiff a button and then whiff punishes with crouch mk xx launcher > vskill. He instinctively can tell by just feeling out her move set and normals and walk speed that she’s going to need to focus on whiff punishment to get damage and executes that right away. You see him whiff punish using sweep and low mk a few times in that first match, and he uses the rekkas for safe pressure with the back dash. Too bad all the rest of the tgs footage are button mashing scrubs.
Btw here’s a nice reset combo that should stun and almost kill
Jump hk > St.hp xx v trigger > St.hp xx rekkas xx overhead (reset) > cr.lk > cr.mp > cr.mk xx rekkas xx slide/palm (which ever does more damage)
That should stun or do 90% stun if everything lands
Does she still have her Elbow Rush from Alpha Games back ? Just wanted to know
@Will_Diesel & @Lemres don’t abuse the spam flag unless you wanna risk a mod giving you an infraction. You wanna negative flag him use Disagree or WTF. At worst you could say one of those posts was “Off topic” Spam is specifically for actual spam posts such as bots.
It’s not under the same name as I’m used to seeing so I didn’t know it was there. In Alpha 3 stuff I’ve found it’s called Guren Ken Daisoku Barai according to all the stuff I can find. A move list video, strategywiki, Street fighter wiki, old IGN FAQ all say some variation of Daisoko Barai though I did find an old gamefaqs that says Kusabi.
@DelayedWakeUp It’s good that you understand where the developers are trying to focus Karin, but it’s not like the other A3 Karin players don’t understand that or don’t know how to play footsies. You can watch plenty of A3 matches from GameAcho and you will probably get bored to tears of how often they do nothing but play footsies. Arguably playing footsies even longer than what is regularly done in SFIV (due to less emphasis on hard knockdowns, dive kicks and other things that avoid or slow down footsies).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=agJu2ayRtbA
With that said, yes they have changed up her style to a more straight footsie centric style when not in V Trigger. I would say that her rekkas in V Trigger still have a lot of potential though. Once you get someone to respect the backdash in fear of making their DP whiff, then the mix up becomes stronger as they will be forced to respect it with the fear of their DP whiffing if they don’t. Which now crush counters work on whiffed DPs. Once they are afraid enough to sit on block the high/low/command grab after the first rekka should be very viable.
Just from outside observation does anyone else here think that the amount of V-Guage consumed by the backdash to be a little high? I mean its great none of the follow ups take up but it looks very limiting during offense (or is this just an outsiders view?)
Not really, I think its an extremely powerful tool. Think about it like this, your opponent is in V-trigger and is Spamming Rekka. You block it and after the first 2 hits you go to punish. Karin backdashes to safety and you essentially reset (unless you tried to punish with something like a DP or sweep). Karin could then just throw out rekkas and if you block oh well I’ll just backdash to safety and we will try this over again.
In this game I don’t think that is how they want her to play at all, the backdash should be used to get out of danger, but you shouldn’t have 5x chances to use said get out of jail free card. That is what I think with the limited observations of the little videos I’ve seen. I think her backdash could be her most powerful tool, if someone tries a meaty punish you can essentially reset and have a guaranteed connect on rekka/CA or whatever.