dont know, maybe cause of the shotos in USF4, there has to be 1 rekka character thats good.
You can’t really say this, without saying what the package they get without looks like, sure if you just flat out removed the tools and gave them nothing,
However if you give them something then it becomss a different story altogether
Having a safe poke that also doubles up as a pressure tool and can be hit-confirmed into a combo is pretty good. Especially since it usually does chip and builds meter decently.
This is provided the rekka is safe, of course. The only two rekka characters in KOF13 with safe-ish rekkas were EX Kyo and Duo Lon iirc. Someone like Flame Iori or Kensou used the rekkas exclusively as combo tools, since they were were unsafe on block and they had better pokes regardless.
They’re not “always good” though. ST Fei Long, which is more or less the original rekka character*, was mid-tier at best. =V
- he was in one SF2-version before ST, but nobody cares about that version
Kinda interested in Karin’s st. RH, seems to have low crush and CC properties which is interesting. Command dash probably gives decent damage off of it. st. RH CC -> Command Dash->P->V-skill.
Do we know if EX shoulder is safe like normal shoulder is? Since it has crumple properties it will probably be the highest damage non-super followup cr. MK, but not sure if you will be able to hit confirm it. If you can that will be pretty strong.
Seems SF5 has ALOT of low crush mid-range normals. Personally I think having to use cr. MK instead of st. MK as the cancellable normal is gonna be overall worse in this game. Mika, Chun, Cammy, Rashid, and Karin have moves that flat out have low crush properties and Mika, Cammy, and Rashid get a combo on normal hit from theirs while the others require a counter hit. That’s a pretty significant portion of the cast with strong low crush options. She’ll probably use st. MK a lot like Chun to setup poking her cr. MK option because of the additional range. Seems her st. MK is kinda like Sakura st. RH of old now.
To be honest LL was the best they ever were in the Japanese version of TvC. Thing was down right insane. Lead to infinites, has a 360 hitbox, took 3-4 push blocks to get off you giving you more time to get your assist of cooldown and build shit tons of meter for megacrash, combo’d into lvl. 3, damage afterwards was unprorated even after several hits of LL, etc. Nerfed that move to hell in the American version.
3S LL is used after a dash or super a lot because the parry punish is very intricate and requires the use of an invincible move just to maybe succeed, also if they go for a low parry the damage is actual pretty darn good for just a single special move, and it beats DP’s for free. A2 it was just CC filler and that is the only alpha game I know where people used it at all, but it gave her the highest damage lvl. 1 CC in the game. Heck SF4 was the street fighter it was best in. It was + on block and lead to her best meterless damage options, plus EX legs was a core staple to her combo game.
Yeah Chun LLs never died. It’s been her signature move and has seen plenty of use in games post-Alpha in the examples listed above and in SFxT, MVC3, etc. That the non-ex version in SF5 is unsafe now doesn’t mean it won’t see much use, it just won’t be block pressure, but it’s pretty much her main confirm special and combo-filler and much easier to execute than before. Then there’s also the air version to consider. And even if it doesn’t get as much use in some games, they never neglect to include them for her. Legs is part of the package when you choose Chun guaranteed. I would have liked certain moves to have been considered part of the package for Karin like what I had in mind when requesting her, but you know, several pages of beating a dead horse and whatnot. Only Capcom can decide what happens in the end. Moving on.
On topic: I haven’t seen anything after EX shoulder leave the opponent grounded, so I wonder if maybe you can at least get a meterless juggle afterward (thinking maybe Mujin Kyaku can do this). It’s not like you can super after, so I expect you can do more than just reset them and hopefully more than just an EX followup.
A lot of those low crush moves are airborne so you might not want to cancel your attack anyway if you’re trying to beat them. Otherwise, s.MP looks like a good whiff punish for these things. It has deceptive range and hits the air in front of her hand.
When the gif gallery for normals is finished (about half done) it’ll be easier to see directly what the ranges and (sort of) hitboxes look like for these things without having to dig through videos.
Just out of curiosity, which SF2 iteration is that?
Super Street Fighter II.
I didn’t really count Marvel games, but yeah I guess you could count those. In those games special moves are meant to be just as important or more important than normals so they work a bit differently in that sense.
I consider neutral use as far as overall actual use. A special move being purely used for bnb/combos doesn’t make it really useful. At that point it’s just an extension of whatever normal or normals you hit confirmed. SFV LLs are really bad neutrally and being used to complete combos doesn’t make them useful. All versions are punishable on block and the head stomp legs cancel (that hopefully Capcom won’t remove) gives the only legit neutral use for air legs. Makes it 0 on block and makes linking s.MP much easier. Otherwise lightning legs have no use in the neutral so they’re effectively useless outside of combos. Which isn’t really a bad thing since again, Chun has always focused on normals first. Especially in her later games.
They had their use in 3S and SFIV, but especially in 3S you can win entire matches without using them even once. It’s not completely vital to you winning every match. SFIV they’re solid, but you’re still leading off with normals most of the time.
Having a low cancelable medium is always better than having a standing cancelable medium. Better for mix up and for footsies since the opponent is forced to stop walking in order to block it. Standing mediums can have good hit boxes but they never have to actually stop their actual footsie movement to deal with them. Even if it wasn’t cancelable it still would be better overall just being a low. Being close with the option of a low cancelable normal, overhead and command grab is really good. Even just having 2 of those options is good.
The low crushes I’m not entirely sure about yet either. They’re usually attached to normals that have slow start up so good placement of them to make sure they don’t whiff is very important. Most heavy normals are unsafe on block also and the ones that are plus or 0 usually have short range (Charlie’s c.HP, Bison’s s.HK).
Chun’s low crush (f+HK which I think is the only one) is not that good. 18 frame start up, leaves her a couple frames negative on block and extends her hurt box very far during the start up. You can easily standing button her out of it before it even starts. It has to have very specific placement due to the hurtbox issue. Generally using an 18 frame normal to stop 6 frame low normals is going to require more work than necessary most of the time. Once in a while as a preemptive crush is probably best use. Her senen shuu overhead has similar hurt box issue.
R.Mika’s seems pretty good since her offense is designed around that move. I’m not sure if she has a good cancelable low though so you may just have to try to make it whiff or just find your good standing normal to fight it off.
Collected a gallery of one gif per grounded normal to add to the OP to go along with normal move descriptions. Had to become less picky with video quality because gamespot/IGN stopped after 2 videos each.
Also v-skill because I forgot:
[details=Spoiler]Whoops it’s too big
http://i.imgur.com/aOZ64ir.gifv
[/details]
It seems like Karin has a lot of moves that pivot on the front foot, so they go further than they look. But then there’s also moves like c.MP/s.MK/lights that stay still and most likely protect the hurtbox.
Both of the fierce buttons are the forward-moving type so they might be a little weird dealing with crossups. You’ll likely both whiff.
Additional gallery with scraps I didn’t use + some jump normals, because why not. Probably not that interesting:
Her lack of access to Rekkas from the get-go makes me wonder who the main Rekkas user will be this time around.
St. Mk, Cr. Mk look great!
I’m also liking Cr. Mp, sort of Cammy-esque punching the ankle, but the reach is looking good.
Jumping normals look strong.
St. Hp and Cr. Hp as Anti-Air options.
She really looks strong with special cancelable normals.
Okay, so what is it that truly makes Karin so freaking popular? I never played the alpha game she was in. I think she’s cool and all, but how is she utterly this popular? What is it about her? Is it her personality and the way she looks? Is it her fighting style? Is it something else?
What to you stands out most about her and that makes her as popular as she is?
Blonde white girl
One of the most varied and useful set of normals, rekka variations up the wazoo, high/low counters, command grab. She has one of the most extensive movesets ever conceived for any street fighter character and it all feels good. Haven’t you asked this question many times before?
I think character requests reach a point where if something’s repeated enough it gains steam on its own. Being denied for several games in a row does that.
But if you asked me to come up with a reason, it’s that the character appeals to multiple groups of people. For casual players, it’s a unique character for SF with a pseudo-catchphrase, and humor in the intro/win poses. For serious players, it’s a character with a unique moveset even among the rarely-represented rekka archetype, who was always ranked highly in effectiveness.
You could see Mika and Urien as opposite ends of a scale and Karin appeals to both ends in different ways.
Part of the reason is she hasn’t been in a mainstream SF game in like 17 years. Plus the original word was that licensing issues would make it difficult for her to return
I would say extensive movement set is what attracted a lot of high level players and she also attracted the girl only player. After that what R-D said aboutthings just picked up steam over a long time. Plus she kinda has a funny attitude.
Not 100% sure what the attraction is in this version is though given how much was taken. Bitches! A3 Karin, never forget!
Also wonder if Urien will be non-charge as Urien without charge partitioning would be WAY less interesting.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gjMIQS_XBAA
From
For me it was both. I was a teen back then and Karin’s personality and her damaging moveset really appealed to me. I laughed at her ridiculous intro with her butler, and then she would kickass in the game. A combination of both. But I think this question is a bit silly and overrated. I dont see people asking over and over why they like Ryu or Alex so much.
I wouldn’t say “popular,” more people got really vocal about her being included.
Anyway, being a rich schoolgirl who just happens to be the rival of one of SF’s most notable characters and one of the most enjoyable movesets in 2D fighting games will do that.