Then you’re going to get baited, and for that match, stop doing that, because you know your opponent is onto your tactics.
its not that advantageous
but its part of the game (moreso probably in the arcade than console id suppose)
fuck it
- look at your opponents hands
- mash or do some distracting noise when theyre trying to combo you
- head fakes
- etc
anything to fake out the opponent and to gain an edge without you physically disrupting him/her is fair game
Thats great!
I play a lot of charge chars myself and constantly do super/ultra/special movements without button presses to bait crap. FTW!
Reason for JWongs random ultras is simple. It’s the same as when he sees a random donut in the table and decides to eat it. It was a bait.
Wong ran into a better player, threw out a random ultra, he lost, didn’t make top 8, move along now.
SRK is just a bunch of whining babies now. Level the fuck up.
This 100 X over
-DJ-
It’s only cheap when you can’t make the necessary adjustment(s). Full credit to Gamerbee for making the adjustment and mind-fucking one of the best players in the game.
I know that when I play Marvel head to head, if I start rolling the stick in circles without hitting any buttons while getting KBAed by Cammy, my opponent will probably think I’m rolling and won’t dash in for an OTG. Works once then is a mind game.
If you can watch the screen while at the same time listen to the opponents joystick inputs and correctly guess what they’re doing with a room full of people and other ambient noise, props to you.
IAJK is 14 frames of start up anyway. If you are buffering Ultra you should be able to do it on reaction easy enough. Nerves just got to him. He was dropping a shit ton of other stuff too.
Lose, obviously.
Trying to cover up for skill by listening in is stupid and cheap, end of. Then it’s no surprise that most foreigners who go SBO get buss up. If you seriously think that listening to someone else’s inputs isn’t cheap then I don’t think anything would ever be considered cheap; if people had a way to look at the opponents stick while playing they would do so…it’s not cheap, it’s tactics man!
LOL, listening tactics, what skill. Some Dastardly and Muttley business. GamerBee slapped such dudes across the face with those baits. It just makes playing people who listen to your inputs really bothersome and annoying; bun this cheap mentality of doing anything to win…you all come from Sirloins loins?
Only time it’s ever viable is listening out for mashing…which, you can’t NOT hear.
Viable tactic, lmao. This is why some scenes will just never catch-up to others. “Bu-bu-but, teh lack of arcades ;(” Gamerbee plays online and he whipped couple hero’s, LMAO.
I hope you’re trolling because there is no way you could be this stupid. This is like back in the day playing Star Fox 64 and people screaming “stop looking at my screen!!”
You’re serious aren’t you? That’s so cute.
Ok this is my opinion on listening/watching/baiting when it comes to controls.
Yes, it’s part of the game. Yes, we all either did it or have had it done to us when we played at the arcade, and offline too. If it’s in the game, get on with it Play 2 Win etc.
However, the problem with that approach is that it is not consistant and therefore ‘fair’. The beauty of competition in fighting games is both players have the same character selection and tools. It’s an even fight and without handicap.
You look at a situation like Wong vs Gamerbee, and you see JWong sitting in a position where he can listen to Gamerbee’s stick in such a way that he has the advantage- whether he wants to or not, Gamerbee can’t listen to Wong’s stick with the same accuracy. The random Ultras that were baited out show that both players were aware of this. Sure, gamerbee won, so in a sense you can say that it didn’t help Justin, but the fact remains that the positioning played into one players hands.
So right there the ‘even’ nature of the contest becomes uneven.
Now, on an Arcade set up you don’t have this- on a side by side, say a Megalo 500, both players have the equal chance to do all these listening/watching/baiting shenanigans. Likewise on Head 2 Head, neither player can.
Right there you can see the problem with inconsistency. If we are all to agree that it’s part of the game to do all this shit, (and we can see that it always has been by watching that 1994 SSF2 tournament where Mike Watson beats Jesse (forget his surname) in the national tournament- Watson takes it in the last match of the set by physically pretending to do the sonic boom motion, then hitting an Anti-air on the baited jump) then playing head to head or online (even with 0 lag and a perfect connection) we aren’t playing the game ‘properly’.
There is no middle ground on this. If you think guys who are saying listening/watching/baiting controller shenanigans (I’m gonna call these LWB from now on as it’s long to type) are a fundamental part of the game, then surely the ‘ideal’ set up is side-to-side Arcade, and if we are playing online then we need to incorporate a webcam and microphone on our controllers, right?
Of course, this is ridiculous. Can you imagine GGPO having this incorporated, so you could listen to your opponents joystick motions? Are joypad players ‘taking away’ from the authenticity of the game? Of course not.
The truth is that the whole LWB thing is a meta-game that arose from the environment at the time- loud sticks and buttons on side-by-side set ups. These tactics were inevitable.
The fact is that this is a meta-game, not a fundamental part of the game itself. We’ve established that. Playing the game in it’s purest form doesn’t involve NEEDING to adapt to LWB tactics. Once we see that, then we have to think about how we can keep the game consistant and that we are all playing the same game.
I mean, is it really fair that the UK 3S scene is based (or was based, as it’ pretty much dead now) on head-to-head set ups at Trocadero Arcade? UK had Harmonaz (among others) go to Evo and play. He did OK. The reason I brinig it up is that he was interviewed on the Gootecks podcast and he was asked if he’d like to play Valle. His answer was that he would, but only on a head to head set up. He said he’d heard a lot of stuff about Valle listening to stick motions etc. If you’re used to playing head-to-head, or online, or with pads, then you’re automatically not part of this whole LWB meta-game, and any fight that is side-by-side on sticks will put you at an automatic disadvantage.
The point isn’t whether you think this stuff is ‘cheap’ or dirty or whatever. It’s that sometimes it’s a significant part of the game, and sometimes it’s not part of the game at all. Sometimes one player is advantaged, some times not.
The solution has to be to make it consistant across the board, and the only way of doing that is to have head to head set ups at tournaments like Evo, especially for finals. A match that important, and one player can sit himself with his ears right next to the others stick? What if there’s a disagreement on positioning? for example, what if I want to sit right behind my opponent, and he objects? What if Gamerbee had said no, I don’t want Justin sat below me with his ears next to my arcade stick?
I think this is a big enough part of the game (as evidenced by all the replies affirming that it’s always been there) for there to be a need for consistant rules.
IMO with a head to head set up you are playing the game as it was intended- it’s just about you, your opponent and the gameplay within the software. All the meta-games that are a by-product of sitting next to each other with loud controllers are all very well and good when everyone is playing in that environment, but they’re not.
I think you guys are taking a leap of faith in suggesting that Justin was definitely listening, as if his ears can tell the difference between QCF and QCB. That’s a joke. More than likely, he responded to visual cues. When you do a standard SF motion, your character dips a little bit, that is something that a LOT of players respond to. To assume that Justin heard “click-click-click” and was willing to bet his entire tournament on figuring out exactly what GamerBee was doing, in Morse Code is… well, it’s pretty fucking ridiculous, but what should I expect from SRK today…
@5:10
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Actually, as far as Street Fighter goes, yes, they always did play head-to-head.
Unless they were playing on a “table”-style cabinet.
Also stop your crying, this is America, and in America we play shoulder-to-shoulder! 
(srsbsns: Legit tactic, haters gonna hate)
I’m LOLing at you because of your use of the word “cheap”. . and on THIS website of all places.
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This is why Justin guessed.