What about the second hit of target combo (LK MK HK)? It’s also jump cancellable.
The frame data on the TC is different, but it’s still cancelling all of the recovery so it’s probably still +10something
I’m not so sure about that. The jump cancel off of a clst.mk is near instant; there’s quite a bit of delay on the jump if you jump cancel the 2nd hit of the kick chain.
I’ve played Mike like 50 games these past few days. I think Yun:Yang really is 6:4 with all the stuff I’m coming up with and seeing how their buttons interact…just gotta get those dive kick set ups perfected. Two things drive me nuts though…
- Mike is unthrowable 80% of the time.
- why do i have to remember ~20 dive kick set ups per character
i agree. its really hard to control yun from neutral, and yun does way more from regular combo knockdowns than yang does, and yun stuns in like 3 guesses as opposed to like 5 from yang
- the good big buttons that yang has are all dive kick bait, while yuns buttons dont carry much risk
its winnable, but requires me to have absolute momentum control for most of the round. 6-4 sounds good to me at this point
of course theres always the possibility that im missing a key match up tool
Whether the Yun match-up is in his favor or not, the one thing that really bothers me is why did they make Yun’s command grab better than ours? I know that in 2012 they made the start-up for both the twins command grabs the same for both regular and EX versions…but why does Yun’s have to have better range? He really doesn’t need it. I think Yang, as a more footsie/reset oriented character, is the one who needs the better command grab.
I can understand why they made ours worse overall, since a lot of the FADC set-ups are pretty good…but I just don’t get why they made Yun’s have the better range. It annoys me.
Also, I’ve played a few games against a pretty good Makoto…and is it just me or does the match-up seem pretty even? While her pressure game is pretty insane (and the removal of the throw invincibility on our command grab makes dealing with her command grabs even more of an issue), we have a way out of it in the form of LK Roll Kick. And if we start pressuring her ourselves, there isn’t a lot she can do. She does have the EX overhead (which loses to lows I believe), or EX command grab (which can either be baited with a jump, meaty palm, or even overhead since we’re considered airborne), but for the most part there isn’t a lot she can do.
What does anyone else think of the Makoto match-up?
well they are different characters. yun is supposed to have a harder time fighting at mid range, therefore he is designed to be more of a close range threat. a better command grab makes sense. yang gets the better footsie tools, while yun gets the better close stuff
I suppose you’re right…it still bothers me though. It also bothers me how much more solid Yun’s tools seem overall compared to ours…
Still, no matter how much more solid or easier Yun may be to play, I feel that playing Yang is much more satisfying. There’s something about frustrating your opponent with ambiguous resets that’s just…awesome…and trolling with Seiei’ Enbu (repeated jabs), even if it’s terrible for damage, never gets old. 
I do not see how Yun’s tools are more solid. Yang has a much stronger ground game a better mixup game with meter [slash fadc]. Yun might be considered a better character still, but I wouldn’t call him more solid than Yang. He relies almost exclusively on mixups once he’s in rather than safe pressure, and on the defensive he’s not nearly as stable as Yang.
Also against makoto, if she’s got no meter, she can’t really do shit about repeated walk up s.jabs. Just get her to the corner and abuse it. Same thing for rufus and a lot of other characters without something invincible to get out.
Well, maybe “solid” was the wrong word. I guess Yun just seems like the easier to use version of Yang…
Gah, I gotta stop making analogies. I suck at them. :shake:
Standing jab pressure against Makoto…well, I’ve played Street Fighter X Tekken, so I should have no problem with that.
I’m pretty certain Yang Yun is even. I have some good Yun players on my friends list so I’m familiar with the match-up. In AE this match was considered even and I don’t think much has changed in 2012.
[media=youtube]Qk2AF8XBL9s[/media]
[media=youtube]-JNCdM5dGv8[/media]
[media=youtube]9LVzFtPfUwk[/media]
These are three top Yun vs. Yang replays I found from 2012. Yun winning one and Yang winning the other two.
Man I thought I was the only one lol
Yeah, it’s funny to do. What’s even better is comboing into sweep after a bunch of the jabs, and then doing an ambiguous mix-up that leads into a free ultra combo.
So has anyone any info if there are notable Yang players that are attending Evo this year? I know Humanbomb is there and he could bring out Yang and Chi-Rithy is there but I doubt he’ll be switching to Yang unless he gets mirror matched or something. Is Rom going?
[LEFT]For some reason, jab pressure isn’t discussed a lot here. Jab pressure on many characters completely locks them down in the corner. Most can’t do anything without meter, and some can’t do anything until you get pushed far enough.[/LEFT]
[LEFT] [/LEFT]
[LEFT]Example: meterless rufus in the corner. Because rufus is so large, you can repeatedly s.jab him, getting 3 st.jabs before you have to realistically walk forward again. after each st.jab, you’re +4, meaning if they try to jump they get hit, if they try to hit a button, then get hit. Rufus’ only answer is to messiah out, but with no meter he’s stuck. After each jab you can either go low into slash, or hopkick. granted, after one of those options you’re pushed back relatively far or are in a neutral position, respectively.To apply further pressure, you can easily do walking jabs to distort their window of opportunity.[/LEFT]
[LEFT] [/LEFT]
[LEFT]This jab pressure is almost the exact same as boxer in Super. The difference being that there are a few chars this doesn’t work on because they’re so small. Against characters with DPs, this is the same exact thing, except you have to just bait out the DP every now and then. Yang’s strongest moment in a round is when he gets someone to the corner, -not- when you knock someone down miscreen. Midscreen there are too many factors to consider, such as people backdashing away from you after a few blocked moves. In the corner, they can’t do that [unless they want to get hit].[/LEFT]
[LEFT] [/LEFT]
[LEFT]My mind is, Yang either resets you to death midscreen, or sends you to the corner. That’s why I’m not fond of ending with rolling kicks anymore, because the crossup is harder against most characters on their wakeup. I’d rather either continue trying the [launch, j.fierce dash] reset or send them to the corner with slashes and pin them there. Rolling kicks are all well and fine, but I’d only use it against characters that I have to actually chase because they’re turtling.[/LEFT]
I hope every yang player is abusing s.lp, come on, just takes a look at the frame data to see that a move that’s +4 on block is pretty stupid.
i know i dont use it enough yet. im not really into my match ups yet tho, so im unsure about what character types it misses on. like i thought sim was tall enough, but you can only do 1 before you get a whiff.
inb4 the list and training mode. in due time
also, is there a reason not to use slashes as a solitary poke? been experimenting. seems decent in some matches
I think this is the list that you’re looking for:
As for the second point, I think it depends on the player, such as against those who are back-dash happy. It might be good at about mid-screen distance against characters without fireballs though, since being able to cancel into the 2nd and third slashes even if you don’t connect makes for some interesting mind games…
I personally use slash as it were a rekka in some matchups where cr.mk can only get you so far. Problem is a lot of times the second rekka wiffs at max range and you get punished, but that’s obviously my mistake on spacing.
st.LP is good but it doesn’t reach as far as st.LK (um…I think…) and the hit box is very high. High enough to lose to a lot of lows.
Slashes are kind of ass for poking without cancelling into them from st.LP or st.LK. The hit boxes aren’t that great, the start up is a little on the slow side, and the recovery is terrible. Might as well start with st.LP/st.LK to have more time to confirm and have more damage if it hits, as well as being able to chain st.LP/frame trap with fst.LK while being + on block either way. The only real nice thing is the extra range but most of the time this works against you because you end up too far away to hit the second or third rekka and get punished on hit.