Will red focus give stun dmg during fse though? I still don’t find myself using Kaisen outside of toying around. The potential mix-ups and resets are just too good to pass up.
So I just got back from UFGT where I got to play a bunch of ultra (I even got 9th in the ultra tourney!). The build was the final console build (they even had arcade mode etc. available).
Anyways a few notes:
st.lp- has been buffed so that it works on some characters in a combo. For example in Juri v Juri, you can combo cr.lk into st.lp just like you could on on taller characters like seth. However on yun you do indeed have to link the st.lp from a cr.lk for it to combo. If it is not a link, st.lp will just whiff. However the timing doesn’t seem too hard.
ex divekick- definitely nerfed since the last time I touched it. pretty sure it is negative on block, however it also recovers hella fast. I don’t think it is that great in this version. I had trouble landing ex divekick (1 hit) xx ultra 2, and it whiffed at times I was sure it wouldnt.
M+H fireball is indeed super good, the only disadvantage I found over L+M fireball is that st.lk xx M+H fireball doesnt combo where L+M fireball does.
Air to ground properties of ex pinwheel are the same - the suction effect changed nothing. Only thing suction effect does is make it easier to punish + sometimes get an extra hit where you may not have on ground from max range.
Also I’m pretty sure I was getting throw out of my cst.mk, but not 100% sure. ;v
She still really good though, just not as stupid as Ultra in arcades
yeah ex mid fireball is 15f startup whereas lower and higher have 13 startup. all take 39 frames total so mid technically has 2 frames more advantage.
about ex dive to u2, that is pointing towards FSE lol
about the “horizonal U2 hitbox” buff, I didn’t see it while playing at republic of fighters in paris. i whiffed multiple times the U2 after an instant ex divekick on chun-li, it’s same as with the normal dive in AE2012.
I also tried far mp xx store > U2 midscreen. Didn’t work but i only tried for 5 min and on like 2 chars. Maybe my execution failed.
Also played double ultra, there’s really enough time for FSE but the U2 is more utilitary/to close a match. Using double ultras, U2+ex dive(followups or not) gives like ~350 damage
Oh and there’s potential for crossup ex divekicks 
So is it safe to sum up her changes as 1 pressure buff (fs.mp cancelable) and 2 overall nerfs (jumpback dive requires meter and EX pinwheel is more punishable)? It sounds like st.lp in combos is going to be as character specific as ever and EX mid fireball is really only gonna help corner pressure and maybe the Honda MU.
So there is a suction effect on hit contrary to what the change list said? Better than nothing
Theres almost no point in arguing anymore since most of you people ONLY see the nerfs anyway.
EX Pinwheel is finally invincible. Fuck that sucking in thing who cares. If I mashed EX Wheel vs better opponents I always ate the ultra or some other situational stuff that did a shitton of damage anyway.
It’s invincible. Now you just need to make correct guesses or only mash it if you have 3 bars. That change with the invincibility is huge. 200 dmg antiair ? Nah it sucks people in on block, fuck that shit I will never use it anymore or rant in forums about how unfair it is that our finally invincible reversal is now actually unsafe vs all kinds of players.
Most invincible reversals end up in your opponents face and are easy to punish.
far.LK is also completely forgotten by everyone. We can’t confirm with cr.MK anymore but far.LK into EX wheel is just as good after 2-3 cr.LK’s.
Kasatushi taking recoverable damage is more off a buff than an actual nerf. When I have a juri in a chipping situation I will just delay whatever I am trying to do and chip her accordingly. You don’t get out for free against any decent player. If I see her flashing yellow I will throw. You people give that move way too much credit in that aspect. The normal version gives us free ultra now but of course everyone is just seeing the nerf.
far.HK during FSE is a really good get in tool in the corner and also a build in frametrap during a few FSE strings. Of course no one sees the utility in it too. Calling the cl.MK change a “nerf” is also almost ridiculous.
How many of you guys actually got out of mixups with the air reset ? I would like to see that in tournament situations. Juri was never a victim to ambiguous setups because she could always Kasatushi or focus forward dash out of them. Of course it had it’s “uses” but they were so minor that it really doesn’t make a difference. Best thing is, it’s still throw invincible but who cares right ?
EX Mid fireball is huge even midscreen vs any character. We can now have an LK Fireball and EX MK on screen and nothing can be crouched. It really helps her zoning game. Also the hitbox of EX MK fireball is a tad higher than other fireball hitboxes. LK fireball in combination with EX MK fireball might be really useful against characters that can avoid LK fireballs easily and crouch MK fireballs (Rufus, Yun, Yang, Honda, Cammy, Bison etc.)
The midscreen lockdown is really good too.
Even with all the buffs characters are getting Juri will be viable, no matter where she ends up on the tierlist. Still a jack of all trades but at least a reliable one.
I accept the nerfs begrudgingly. She’d be stupid otherwise. I’m on your side Shiro.
I would say your assessment is a bit too negative.
Far lk having 4 frame start-up is a clear buff. It has more reach than her cr.lk. It will lead to more punish opportunities. You can now link it into itself, though it will be an unplinkble one frame link. It also becomes a better attack to challenge people who press buttons when they are at frame disadvantage. An example of this would be: vs Evil Ryu, you block his mk Axe Kick which leaves him at -2, and he presses cr. lp (3 frame start-up). If you challenge his cr. lp with a 4 frame far lk, it will beat his jab. In AE, if you did this frame perfect, your far lk would trade with his jab.
EX Mid-fireball is a big buff since it gives her frame advantage without the need of her lk button. This is huge since 99% of Juri’s frame advantage moves are tied to her lk button.
Far mp, fixed FSE normals, and Invincible EX Pinwheel speaks for themselves. This has been on every Juri players wishlist since 2010.
Standing Jab is the oddity. If you can link it from cr.lk or st.lk on a crouching opponent, then it is a solid buff. I’ve heard you can link it, and I’ve heard that you cant. We’ll have to wait and see.
I wont comment on EX Dive since it’s the most reworked of her new changes.
The severity of her nerfs will be determined by the overall utility of her buffs. We basically gave up defensive options for offensive options, so now we wait and see if we got a good tradeoff.
I THINK st.lp will whiff mostly if you chain it and then maybe on sakura Cammy yang or something? Link hits everyone or nearly everyone? Reviews on it are pretty scattered.
so you can chain c.lk into s.lp on most the cast, but have to link c.lk into s.lp on smaller characters? not ideal but way, way better than what I saw at NCR a while back.
@Shiroyasha
Shiro, how much of a true reversal is ex pin?
since you have the Ultra mod…have you tested ex pin going up against other reversals in training mode?
like setting the dummy to do wake up DPs?
what does it lose to?
you can do math for that - ex senpusha being invincible 1-7 and hitting on frame 7 means that if another character is vulnerable on that frame 7 they will lose.
if they avoid that invincible hitbox on frame 7, then from frame 8 until ex senpusha ends, if they are not invincible and have a hitbox that would hit juri it will trade with ex senpusha
if they are still invincible and have a hitbox it will beat ex senpusha
some examples,
juri’s ultra 2 is invin from 1-13, and becomes active on frame 10. this means it has 3 frames where it would beat anything and after frame 13 it will trade (unless they hit while being invincible, which would beat it)
so in the current version, if one juri does ex senpusha and another does ex senpusha, they might (and probably will) trade.
in usf4, the second one should win every time
at least this is how i understand it lol
I know, that cr.LK>cr.MK link still works on arcades for now. I don’t know if they didn’t changed it yet.
Epsik, arcade is an old build. C.mk according to combo has been reverted back to 6 frames.
You mean 6 frames? That’s sad. =(
My fault. 6 frames. Apparently c. Lk > c.mk was too strong.
I can’t comprehend how could 1-frame link off 4-frame move be “too strong”. Well, Juri did made it into top-tiers back then, and she’s not the only one who receives all nerfs. Except for Fei Long - he bribes developers.
The Juri nerfs seem kind of arbitrary but I think the overall theme of usf4 is that because of delayed wakeup the game could overly favor defensive characters. Most characters that could zone really well got some defensive nerfs in exchange for offensive buffs like guile losing 50 health and getting CH’d on boom recovery for a really good offensive tool in upside down kick hitting crouchers and df+hk hitting more people on the ground. Same with Sagat better/more consistent combo damage for more recovery on tiger shot.
Juri lost free air resets out of tight frame traps, jump back dive kick, 0 damage counter escapes, and sometimes safe ex pin for much better combo opportunities and pressure. I think Capcom learned really good lessons from sfxt 1.0 in how to make sure defensive wakeup options don’t slow the game down too much.
Ah, now I’ve got it! Juri’s buff is Guile’s HP nerf! Now everything is clear to me.
jk