@Pleasedontcuss damn… well said. I don’t really know the in’s and outs of anyone besides Juri, Gief, and Akuma. I read the changes, but a lot of it was meaningless to me or simply cool I’ll beat that now or I can’t stuff that now. Your Guile example put some of the changes into perspective for me.
I guess what I’m trying to say is thanks for giving me my hype back. Capcom give this man a PR job!
Well said. The only thing I disagree with is cs.mk. You’re talking about “who even used it to get out of mixups”. But it wasn’t it’s only use.
cs.hp is an unsafe tech trap no matter what you cancel it into. So cs.mk was her only decent normal for techtraps. It was relatively safe to use because if they teched early or you did it too late it was already airborne on frame 1 so it would just air reset you and then force you to block. But now since you are no longer airborne from the first frame it means you will eat crouch tech hit confirm into a combo and possible setup. That is a nerf imo especially for FSE pressure. At least for me cs.mk was a big part of my offense. It will still be but it will be super unsafe offensively. Now IA dive kick is the only “safe” tech trap option.
And I don’t want to hear that it should be unsafe because Evil Ryu will have + on block complete low crush and special cancellable overhead lol. And Rose, Guile etc. have those godlike and abusable hop kicks.
Juri’s going to be good, but…
EX Pinwheel should always have been invincible. It’s easy to safe jump and her other reversal was never that great. Everyone’s creaming themselves over something Juri should have had since Super. It’s not Capcom raining mana from heaven down upon us, guys. It’s them finally fixing some of their mistakes.
Also, EX Pinwheel is 180 damage if you hit them grounded. As anti-air it’s 150 at best, maybe 120 depending on the angle. It remains to be seen whether the jump-ins that stuff it now will continue to do so. Cody nj.HP comes to mind.
Lastly most invincible reversals make you fly away or up into the air where it takes at least a little effort to punish them. I don’t think the ‘nerfs’ to EX Pinwheel will matter one bit - like I said, I already tell people to raw ultra, and I can’t think of a single character that can’t punish it already - I just think it’s pathetic that Capcom felt like they had to make those changes at all.
If we wanted free ultra meter, we always have the option of using Focus instead. Now we don’t have an option. The fact that she could not be chipped out if she had one meter made people have to take that into consideration, just like, for example, a Ryu has to be very careful with fireballs when an Adon has U1 stocked. It doesn’t stop it, but it makes them hesitate or use less than optimal tactics. It also helped our fireball game to be able to absorb them for the price of pushing ourselves to the corner.
My main problem with this nerf is that the move was never that good anyway. It was just good enough to get a little use. I guarantee the reason it was nerfed - and probably EX Pinwheel too - is that it was annoying to casual players. Same thing with Bison’s teleport nerf.
Close MK is a straight up nerf. It’s not hugely significant, but there is absolutely nothing good about the change. Before, she could not be fully comboed if hit on frame 1. Now she can. If it quacks like a nerf, it’s a nerf. I used this move against El Fuerte a lot to avoid hard knockdowns from Tostada Press. I guess delayed wakeup will have to do instead.
I agree that these are both important buffs. And that Juri will be good. But just because she’s getting better doesn’t mean we aren’t allowed to be upset about unnecessary nerfs or reverted buffs.
Well I am probably the only one liking the Kasatushi “nerf”. Yeah you had the option to focus backdash but it doesn’t build as much super and ultra meter at the same time and if you were in a chipping situation with Juri and you had 1 ex bar you would at best delay the inevitable (same for delayed wakeup imo). The Ryu example is extreme in comparision. To chip Juri I would just use an armor breaker and almost every Character has one (Oni LK slash, Cammy Spinning Knuckle, Ryu Tatsu, Cody Ruffians or Zonks, Yuns Lunge Punch, Viper meaty knuckles, Dans dankicks etc.) EX Wheel as it was in AE 2012 would always trade if your opponent timed the special properly and if the character has no armor breaker available then just being patient was enough.
The main use of cl.MK was to bait throws and it still gets the job done. It’s just not an “easy” escape option anymore but then again I barely used it in that way which is maybe why I don’t really care about it.
She should have had an invincible EX Wheel since super but she didn’t. Of course everyone is creaming themselves when they finally get the buff and since it’s now fully invincible I think the nerf is ok.
If she just hits the opponents with the tip it was kinda hard to punish sometimes with normal moves so I can see why they did it and it’s not pathetic at all.
Of course these nerfs suck but the buffs she got in exchange make up for it by a long shot so I don’t really get all the complaining.
I’m gonna try and drive this home.
For all intents and purposes, EX Senpusha is pretty much the equivalent of a DP as of Ultra. Both are invincible on wakeup reversal and both are now highly punishable. Juri vacuuming someone in is just as bad as flying up into the air after an uppercut. Its a super punishable “get off me” move like most of the rest. When looking at it like that, its a fair change, especially since it was already highly punishable as it was. Its now fully invincible, so its now fully punishable. There’s really no disputing it. Its a good exchange as far as i’m concerned, because as I said before, you were gonna eat it on most blocks and whiffs anyways. Nobody should be planning their game around the idea of EX Senpusha not being punished. You’re going to be a lot happier that EX Senpusha isn’t trading on frame 1 now than you would be if someone wasn’t able to punish you for not hitting with it. Because quite honestly, trading it happens a lot more for me ( and probably all of you too ) than it not being punished.
Concentrate on the good stuff she got and what she can do with it rather than the stuff that was taken away or the stuff that was never finalized. Be aware of the nerfs and change things up around them, but try not to brood on them so much. Pretty much all the players are going to have to go through an adjustment period with their own nerfs too, as do us Juri’s. These nerfs don’t kill the character by any means.
This is what I’ve been trying to drive home and what I’ve been telling myself: there are some nerfs to juri but a lot of the cast got significant nerfs also. We have to think about it within the context of the game as a whole.
Like yea we might have lost kasatushi but maybe the need for it will be diminished? Fei long got nerfed… Cammy got nerfed…Honda got nerfed… Sakura… Adon…
Ex pinwheel sucks in now and is more punishable but that means more damage to reacted jaguar kick… I won’t trade with Sakura tatsu…maybe yuns dive kick won’t beat my dive kick clean…maybe I won’t get beat/trade with zangief green hand or lariat…etc.
Scmk worries me. I don’t buy that it’s unthrowable.
I personally didn’t see nerfs to Juri. Everyone here will need to up their neutral game.
My one complaint. yun’s ex punch is +1. Complete horse shit.
EX Senpusha aint ever gonna beat Lariat unless i didnt see a nerf to it. That shit has beaten me out of the active frames of ultras when he was in the hitbox.
My friend mains Vega. He u2ed a lariat on reaction and just dragged the Gief across the stage without hitting him. That thing is crazy.
^ Capcom at its finest.
then again I think there’s 2 versions of lariat???
one I think is lower body invincible?
correct me if I’m wrong, I don’t ever play with gief
Both of then are lower body invincible. The arm hitbox is so huge that he doesn’t need to be full invincible. Either he beats you or he trades. Lariat doesn’t get beat by anything during active frames. Its just that if you do kicks, the lariat doesn’t last as long
Kasatushi nerf is still a nerf. They gave Juri a “somewhat” better basic get off me move…sigh. Thanks to this nerf her reversal game isn’t much of a threat anymore.
“Oh look ex senpusha…meh no big deal I’ll just jab os or safe jump it easily. Next.” The respect her opponent’s have to give her now on knockdown or during pressure is laughable now. There’s no threat…ugh…this blows chunks.
i dont understand you, the only nerf is that it takes recoverable life, that doesn’t diminish ex kasatushi’s use of 1f counter teleport out at all except when your life is low. how is her reversal game “not much of a threat anymore” when the frame data is exactly the same?
why does that change how much respect they have to give her?
ex senpusha was buffed to not trade as much so you get more damage when it works. and in some cases now it will trade when it would have lost.
That one frame counter can be punished. So not only do I take stun but I take damage ( character specific, situational…)
Do you know how many matches ive turned around due to not taking chip?
of course it is a nerf, but it doesn’t mean the option isn’t there except for when you’re low on life. obviously that is when the opponent can do certain things that they wouldn’t normally do.
i agree, it’s fair to say that kasatushi’s main uses were as a pseudo fadc backwards vs fireballs and to avoid chip outs when almost dead, and it is now more useful for building ultra meter + super meter in the first usage, worse in the first usage when trying to avoid chip, and completely useless in the second usage.
i just don’t think it’s fair to say that her wakeup game is less of a threat now, when ex pinwheel is more invincible. it is fair to say something like, her wakeup game when she is at chippable life is gone (barring ultra 2) .
overall i think her wakeup did get nerfed since ultra 1 lost 2 invin frames but ex pinwheel becoming more reliable is still a very good change. now we get more lenient punishes on dive kicks and get better damage than when it traded with dives. might be important since everyone is hyping up yun.
It’s a dumb change. All they had to do was import the SFxT version over and there…done. All they had to do. You could counter fwd vs fireballs easily and go on the offense. And you couldn’t really punish counter if you activated it unless you do the air counter.
Might as well FA backdash then…there is almost no point in using this move anymore in this version of SF… right now any time you could counter a FB…might as well FA it instead. Before I could counter fwd on a jab a point blank range and MAYBE get nicked by another jab when trying to backdash after and that was usually a mere 30-40 dmg…now?
I’ll be taking 30 regen PLUS 30 real dmg…that hurts…they made the counter as bad as cammy’s QSK… and I don’t even dare attempt to use it on someone’s wake-up through a read because AB>counters (which is stupid from the start). The use of this move is now more limited then ever…that’s not a good thing…
Capcom does it again…
Her wake-up is less of a threat now. All someone has to do now is simple meaty jabs and they win. They don’t even have to worry about the counter anymore. Fucking capcom…thanks capcom…
No one ever had to worry about the counter… Unless you could Kara cancel it
That’s because noone uses it properly.
what’s wrong with the counter
you take 30 recoverable dmg and still get out right