Joie de vivre! Ultra Abel Discussion

[Asica]

While there is a wishlist thread, it hasn’t been seen activity in over two months. I thought we could start a new thread focused more on his confirmed changes and any new tech/matchup information as its discovered.

List of changes from Combofiend Jan 30. If there is a more recent list, let me know:

Ultra changes:
-Close Standing Heavy Punch: First attack’s hitbox extended downwards hitting crouching characters much more consistently
-Far Standing Heavy Kick: Attack comes out faster (14F->13F)
-Far Standing Heavy Kick: Attack is active longer (2F->3F)
-EX Falling Sky: Attack is active longer (2F->3F)
-EX Falling Sky: Extended Invincibility on Upper Body (6-7F to 6-8F)
-Heartless: Attack is active longer (2F->4F)
-Soulless: Ultra now connects when performed after crouching HP with opponent in the corner

I’m picking up Abel in Ultra and I hope others are too. A grappler with decent movement, pokes and oki sounds good to me. For the long time Abel players, are you staying loyal to the Frenchman?

[abeltech]

Delayed wake up makes COD safe jump setups easier.

COD, whiff s.lk (16 frames), jf.mk

This should hit everyone except Cammy, Sagat, Blanka.

This is safe for 4f reversals and some 3f reversals. Safe on Ryu lp dp, but not on hp dp.

[Dragonfave723]

Bunch of Abel match-ups here:

[abeltech]

Abel Ultra 1 in corner whiffs

[ailerus]

abeltech: it looks like he does the ultra when abel is too high. maybe it still works, but you still have to time it properly?

[Feuerwehrbrot]

I think ailerus is right. Look at 51:25min.

https://youtube.com/watch?v=VObgjKoljbo#t=3087

[abeltech]

I think ailerus is right. Look at 51:25min.

https://youtube.com/watch?v=VObgjKoljbo#t=3087

51:25min didn’t start in the corner. Ultra misses in corner at 59:45min.

[akiramike]

In Japan atm. Any theoretical setups for delayed wakeup me to try? Abel doesn’t have any moves exactly 11 frames I think.

[splurgendii]

His sweep is 11(conveniently)

[splurgendii]

Would you test breathless?
Can it punish akuma sweep or Hondas ex headbutt?

[akiramike]

His sweep is 11(conveniently)

That’s just execution frames. Can Abel cancel sweep into roll without it touching the opponent?

Are there rumours they made U2 faster? I’ll give it a go if I meet a Honda/Akuma.

[abeltech]

In Japan atm. Any theoretical setups for delayed wakeup me to try? Abel doesn’t have any moves exactly 11 frames I think.

When does it display Technical after COD? Do you have time to react?

Try this delayed wakeup safe jump setup.
COD, whiff s.lk (16 frames), jf.mk

This is the no DWU set up.
COD, wait 5 frames (add a frame for sagat and cammy, add 2 for blanka), jf.mk

This should hit everyone except Cammy, Sagat, Blanka.

This is safe for 4f reversals and some 3f reversals. Safe on Ryu lp dp, but not on hp dp.

[akiramike]

Crap. The technical sign only appears right before they get up. So when I use the old okizeme stuff I have to manually delay which is so dangerous.

Eg sf - backdash - roll - technical. I feel so lost with Abel right now.

[electric]

Crap. The technical sign only appears right before they get up. So when I use the old okizeme stuff I have to manually delay which is so dangerous.

Eg sf - backdash - roll - technical. I feel so lost with Abel right now.

I feel like Abel will lose a LOT of his left/right oki due to delayed wakeup. I feel like he’s going to have to rely more on proper footsies/fundamentals. No more burst damage from a random hit into knockdown unless you guess correctly and adjust your setup beforehand.

In theory, air resets may become more potent now… 2009 Vanilla roll reset Abel = top tier?

[akiramike]

For left right ok, you have to predict that your opponent will not delay wake up.

I’m a lot used to the delay and while its true Abel’s Oki is a lot weaker, so is everyone else’s. And there’s a lot less random dp though I have not nd not seen anyone punish dpfadc forward. I blame that on years on lateching.

I sometime use delay tt or delay c.lk but its so risky against mashing 3 framers.

I think Abel’s Oki is now to connect with step kick instead of left/right. Eg fs-backdash-I see tech-clp-stepkick.

I use a lot of delay crossup on serial delay standing because neither of us knows where it’ll hit. Lol.

[akiramike]

Red focus is good when Ryu starts throwing fw+hp to break Abel focusing fireballs. : )

[electric]

Here’s the final change list for Abel in USF4.

• Close Standing HP first hit hitbox greatly expanded downward
• Hitbox on the 2nd hit of C.HP extended lower
• Far Standing HK start-up reduced by 1 frame (14F → 13F); active frames increased by (2F → 3F); recovery reduced by 1 frame (19F → 18F)
• Falling Sky active frames increased by 1 frame (2F → 3F); upper-body invincibility frames increased by 1 (1F → 2F)
• EX Change of Direction starts up 3 frames faster (16F → 13F)
• 2nd low hit advantage increased by 4 frames (+1F → +5F)
• Finish slow startup reduced by 5 frames (22F→ 17F)
• Heartless (Super Combo) active frames increased by 2 (2F→ 4F)
• Soulless (UC1) pushbox greatly expanded upward, less likely to cross under after Crouching HP in the corner

My opinions…

• Close Standing HP first hit hitbox greatly expanded downward

Obviously great news.

• Hitbox on the 2nd hit of C.HP extended lower

This should make cr.HP hit more consistently slightly further out (i.e. after a crossup MK). Not huge, but cool.

• 2nd low hit advantage increased by 4 frames (+1F → +5F)

By the sounds of things, this means you can do something like F+MK xx dash, st.HP xx HP CoD xx 2nd Low, st.MP xx MP CoD. Very weird change.

Abel still looks pretty solid. Can’t wait for USF4.

[abeltech]

• EX Change of Direction starts up 3 frames faster (16F → 13F)
• 2nd low hit advantage increased by 4 frames (+1F → +5F)

2nd low has 4 active frames. Hit on the last two frames or counter hit and f.mk can link. 2nd low is -5 on block, will it change to -1?

[electric]

2nd low has 4 active frames. Hit on the last two frames or counter hit and f.mk can link.

The only way I can see this happening is if you use CoD xx 2nd Low as a poke (terrible) or as a meaty (even more terrible), which is why I don’t understand the reasoning behind this change. Maybe I’m missing something.

[Muttonman]

2nd low has 4 active frames. Hit on the last two frames or counter hit and f.mk can link.

The only way I can see this happening is if you use CoD xx 2nd Low as a poke (terrible) or as a meaty (even more terrible), which is why I don’t understand the reasoning behind this change. Maybe I’m missing something.

How close does it leave you? I guess if you use it as a desperation mixup you can then link in a fst.lp (or if you’re close enough, a st.hp) and go into EX CoD (or just CoD if you get a st.hp). Or maybe if they focus the first hit of CoD you can just second low to catch the backdash?