whaaaaaat???
Oh yeah, Fchamp supports the community alright.
He supports the community by taking 400$ from Shadowloo to help pay for his flight to Australia. FChamp then got treated extremely well by the Shadowloo Showdown organization over there, with paid hotel room and the local players driving him around and buying dinners for him.
And how does he thank Shadowloo Showdown? By shit talking them live on Wake up SRK.
https://twitter.com/ShadowlooHQ/status/238099216059215873
https://twitter.com/ShadowlooHQ/status/238099429264068610
On Wakeup SRK, FChamp said: “Revelations was a great tourney. But at Shadowloo Showdown I didn’t get paid enough money.”
Really? He’s shit talking Shadowloo Showdown, a real honest tournament that treated FChamp extremely well to make Revelations seem less bad and BS himself out of trouble from promoting Revelations.
That’s the sort of person you are defending, and you defended him by using personal attacks too.
I’m saying KoF being cancelled was because of the players walking out, which isn’t really the fault of Tournament Legacy. You could say that they walked because they couldn’t get a verbal confirmation, but Haz gave the suggestion to get a contract signed or have a check written out or SOMETHING to hold TL accountable, but they didn’t want to do any of that and just left.
i think he was being sarcastic.
well when you build up a negative reputation, you need to work extra hard to prove yourself. it’s like math. a TO starts at 0. runs a good tournament, hes +1. in the positive, less stuff needed. EVO is like +100 or whatever.
So Rev is -2 (rev 2011, team hori, triple threat, with a +1 for scr2010 even though levelup did the running of the tournament.) and as theanswer said, they went into rev2012 knowing the rumors, they were just giving him a second chance. so i mean, red flags are raised and yeah…
And this isn’t including all the stuff behind the scenes that are just coming to the surface, like how he treated past sponsors and such. if ppl get paid they get paid. i am happy for them because that’s why they went. but why can’t we have a big money tournament run by someone less shady? by someone who has a +10 reputation or what have you? We don’t know where he’s getting his money from, but I’d assume there are sponsorships. Why can’t those sponsors put up that money to SCR instead? Canada Cup? Final Round? EVO? Maybe some are too. Let’s save them like 1,000 or 5,000 and add it towards an established tournament. Or if someone does want to “fill” in Rev, have it run by an established person.
Because they’re just too inconsistent. They are still in the negative even if the majority thinks Rev2012 is successful (and there are still people who say it wasn’t successful to them, even non-players), so…
I mean that’s just my opinion. I wouldn’t give him the credit of having a record of “well run” tournaments at this point. But that’s subjective.
You may need to watch oscars stream johngrimmm. There were no setups for KOF. They just showed the floor plan on crackfiends stream, and they didnt even set space aside for KOF. When they talked to haz, they were already fed up with JN. Even as haz was suggesting that, JN stayed silent. But anyway, it wasnt just the guaranteed pot that made them walk out.
No setups is a lie. I set up a couple myself. I can’t be sure on how many there were exactly or if there were DLC on all of them or whatever, but they existed. All the fighting games were ran in one area, there weren’t any specific areas for SF, KoF, or anything else.
According to him, the pot bonus promised for SS got cut massively because GamesCom is a scam company who refused to pay the SS organizers the money promised. It’s not something F Champ can lie and make up about, because the advertisements for SS clearly promised $3000 pot bonus for AE and $2000 for UMvC3 IIRC, and top players clearly were attracted to the event because of those pot bonuses.
Like it or not if TL is to close shop and Revelations is to never happen again West Coast will be struck with NCR, SCR and EVO as the big majors for the entire year. The number of majors in the West Coast is shrinking fast. Do you think that’s enough for the West Coast?
I’m actually worried people didn’t get TheAnswer’s perspective on what happened during the WSRK stream. Haz’s recollection of what happened with KOF just wasn’t enough information and it makes it seem like they were dissatisfied solely because they had to wait for payment. There’s more to it than that. I’ll trust you put up setups, but when the KOF group was there to play, they couldn’t find any. There’s no reason to lie about it. Chalk it up to miscommunication.
Interestingly enough, according to FChamp in WSRK him and others were arguing about a similar issue with John Nelson about SFxT, where the pot was reduced. After a while it was then decided that the pot was back at $5000 (of course, this is to be confirmed in the coming weeks). They never had to resort to Haz’s suggestion about writing down a contract or anything of the sort. With the KOF players this was never achieved, and you can’t blame them for walking out when the TO himself can’t provide a reasonable way to guarantee he will provide the prizes he advertised. It’s not even Haz’s job to deal with that, he was there to stream.
well, dominque torres one of the TOs for revelations jsut said on crackfiends stream, that there were none. And he showed the floor plan that showed where each games were to be in the venue and there was no KOF. Not calling you a liar, but thats what was said and showed on stream. Oscar also said there was nothign for KOF when he got there. youre gonna have to talk to them then if youre saying theyre not telling the truth
The pot was never reduced for SFxT, someone said the pot was lowered, but it wasn’t John Nelson. When they asked JN about it, he said the pot was still 5k.
who the fuck is john nelson and why should we care?
I’m not saying they’re lying, I’m just saying at worst there was communication error. Dom said that there wasn’t a station in the floor plans, but at the event there were no designated stations for anything. All the fighting games were ran in one area and that’s about it. As for TheAnswer, if he couldn’t find anything I apologize, I was really disappointed they walked out because I was excited to see some KoF play. Maybe they didn’t have setups up because they weren’t scheduled to play KoF up yet, I don’t know the specifics of it, but the setups were there.
No I’m pretty sure FChamp said “he changed it” back to $5k when they talked to John Nelson, that there was some sort of “confusion”. You’re right that the top players knew about the prize pot reduction from someone else, though. That’s why they went to talk to JN.
http://www.twitch.tv/keits/b/329479784 at about 32:05
My point is, why did the negotiating go smoothly for SFxT, and then for KOF it was a complete failure? Were the KOF players making unreasonable demands? I’m pretty sure they wanted the exact same thing Justin, FChamp and other top players wanted, which is to guarantee the prize pot which was advertised.
Well maybe the wording wasn’t accurate, but I’m not going to try and say that Champ didn’t say what he meant. My point was that they didn’t have to fight for their pot or whatever, they asked for 5k and got it. As for the KoF guys, they were asking for cash to be presented. Maybe John Nelson didn’t want to make any kind of verbal agreement because they demanded cash and that just wasn’t going to happen. Maybe they decided to drop wanting cash and just wanted a confirmation but didn’t make it clear enough, I don’t know, I didn’t hear the exact conversation between the two. At the end of the day they didn’t even give the tournament a chance and walked out, and that is not the fault of the tournament.
The issue is not that he was demanding cash. Let’s not make any assumptions, in his stream he talks about it and the issue had nothing to do with wanting cash or not. Around the 13:00 minute mark he talks about this issue. He mentions at 16:20 that he wants guarantee that the $3k pot is there in some way or form. Either by showing them he has the cash, a check, or just telling them that he has it. He was pretty clear about that. All he got was “we’ll talk on Monday”, not whether he had the money or not.
Around the beginning he’ll also talk about what happened with the KOF setups.
I’d rather not speak on The Answer’s behalf, but I’m pretty sure he streamed this to be perfectly clear on what happened and what the circumstances were.
EDIT: Woops, here’s the link http://www.twitch.tv/theanswerkof/b/329442334
When they initially brought up the issue to John Nelson, they demanded cash. What I’m saying is that maybe they didn’t make it clear that they didn’t care about the cash, they just wanted the confirmation or maybe John Nelson just thought he would have to go get cash to prove a point and he wasn’t going to do that. It was most definitely just an error in communication. Haz offered a solution and the KoF players didn’t even want to bother, they just left. Like I said, it’s all going to come down to whether people get paid or not. If they get paid, no harm no foul by Tournament Legacy, everything was legit and KoF missed out. If people don’t get paid, then Tournament Legacy messed up and they shouldn’t be dealt with and KoF made the right call.
NCR used to be run 2x a year?
West Coast Warzone?
basically the point of that post is (sorry i was preoccupied when typing that) is it’s on the community to basically take the positives of a tournament like Rev2012, and mimic it.
like he supposedly has money. he’s supposedly getting sponsors to come and pay up when they aren’t necessarily doing the same for other, actual EVO seeded majors. so:
- it’s possible
- we have to do it
So like I said in the original post, reach out to the sponsors. In Starcraft 2, they don’t care if you’re #1 ranked Grandmaster on the ladder or just a fan. If your opinion is expressed, and they get 1000 other messages saying the same thing, they’ll take it seriously. Reach out to these guys. Encourage them to put their pocketbooks elsewhere.
Also, keep in mind that in regards to Rev2012 specifically, players can still easily be paid out, just as easily as a lot of us are assuming they haven’t been. like we (including me) jumped the gun on sfxt. I’ve heard this a lot, A LOT, the past couple of years: John Nelson has the right intentions and ideas, he’s just dumb. So the question becomes, if this is indeed the conclusion everyone involved with him have reached, do we keep giving him chances and criticism in hopes he will one day get it right? Like even minor mess ups such as miscommunication of the pot, not ironing out the venue so he had to get a fire marshal (if that’s true), ironing out the set ups, etc. I’m obviously biased but I mean it’s not hard to be transparent. You don’t have to say something is a fact on a website or an ad when it’s only a 50% chance or whatever. And obviously some things are out of your control as an event coordinator or a TO. But how many mistakes will we allow? If he does pay out the players, which afaik, would give him 2 years of successful payouts, do we go ok cool he’s legit and ignore how he’s supposedly messed up on the business end of things with trying to manage a professional team, or misinforming sponsors (sponsors who are obviously willing to invest in competitive fighting games)?
Reading what I just wrote back to myself, I feel like I might be seen as leading you guys on to a negative answer, but truthfully I’m not. My opinion is no, let’s try to get a high money tournament like Rev into someone else’s hands. But I am one out of a million people who play FGs in America/the world. I feel this is a discussion (a discussion, not an argument or a bitch fest) that should have serious thought. Which is why, despite my attack on TL/JN and my personal opinions about it, I welcome players who want to share their experiences with the organization/the tournament. I hope TL will make their post soon. It’s a shame we probably won’t hear anything about the business/marketing side.