JLF for SHMUPS :)

If you cant afford 2 seperate customs atm then stick with the JLF because i feel like its the better choice for fighting games, some disagree but i prefer it. If you can then i remember a few people on here said ls32s are way better for SHMUPS because the smaller deadzone helps esp in games like Mushime-sama where even a few pixels in the wrong direction spells death.

Reading your post, Iā€™d say JLF all the way. I guess you have already formed your preferences about sticks, so if you feel doubtful about the LS-32 you can go with the JLF and be a happy man.

I usually plug my JLF modded stick and switch with no problems between fighters and shooters, but with the LS-32 one I feel like itā€™s made only for shmups play. Which is not the absolute truth by any means, itā€™s just my personal opinion. Btw playing Touhou games with a JLF can be a HUGE problem. In danmaku games a Seimitsu LS-32 stick is the best choice (stiffer lever, smaller deadzone, clicky feeling).

this thread is so full of lols.

To me the JLF is virtually unplayable on Shmups. But a Seimitsu works fine for fighters. So if I had to choose something to share between the two Iā€™d go Seimitsu.

I think I might just work an assload of overtime this week and just keep both, lol. Because I am really starting to get into danmaku gamesā€¦

Sorry to necro an old thread but itā€™s most relevant.

Is there honestly a significant difference between a JLF with a harder spring and a LS-32?

I just got an EX SE in the mail and was expecting a bigger difference than what I have with my current setup. Right now Iā€™m using an Namco joystick that has an ASCII optical stick and a Namco spring for extra tension. I can pull off short twitchy moves without any trouble. I was thinking the LS-32 would give me an even finer level of control.

Granted, I am not a godlike 1CC shmup master (I donā€™t enough time to play that obsessively). I do play them more than fighters though.

Any thoughts from someone else who has tried both?

Next week Iā€™ll have an EX SE and a HRAP EX side by side. It should help me settle this.

Kyle, I can see where your question is spawning from. Iā€™ve tried to use my ASCII Optical for SHMUPs as well! :lol:

Anyways, there does exist a pretty fine difference for SHMUPs when using a Seimitsu LS-32 instead of a Sanwa JLF. Itā€™s not so much the spring actually, itā€™s more of the throw, engage distances, etc. A harder spring gives the illusion of being okay for twitchier movements by making you unconsciously press a direction harder than you normally would and therefore increasing the speed at which your joystick engages which serves to cover up the twitch factor since youā€™re simply registering the engage faster. The springā€™s purpose is twofold, first to ensure that the joystick will return to neutral if the player releases the joystick. The second part of the springā€™s purpose lies in its resistance. The more resistance you find in a spring, the more accurate your directions become. I wonā€™t pretend that i know the scientific reson as to why, but it just sort of works out that way. Notice how on an old school Happ or iL Competition joystick the joystick seems to travel more true in any of the 8 directions than if you were using say a Sanwa JLF. Iā€™m getting sidetracked and some people will undoubtedly call BS on my assertions, but this is what Iā€™ve observed.

Now as for the engage distances, Kyle, keep in mind that the Sanwa HS-ASSY FLASH 1 PCB and the ASCII Optical Joystick PCB were made to-spec of the Sanwa JLF. They definitely feel more precise than the JLF since theyā€™re using optics instead of mechanical switches. However, the LS-32 still has a smaller deadzone and engage distance than the JLF. It has the right combination of spring tension, engage distance, and deadzone such that you can truly utilize twitch reflexes with utmost precision in any direction. However, for SHMUPs, youā€™d ideally have a Suzo Inductive Joystick. It has an INSANELY short throw and an even shorter engage. It uses magnetic induction instead of optics or microswitches to activate inputs, a truly unique joystick which you wonā€™t find anywhere else in the world. As far as Iā€™m concerned, any stick that can mount a Happ or iL joystick at the proper height should be able to mount a Suzo Inductive just fine. Hunt one down if you can. They absolutely SUCK for fighting games, but you canā€™t find a better joystick anywhere for SHMUPs. :tup:

Thanks for the lengthy reply. I may have been unfairly comparing the ASCII Optical to the JLF. I wish I would have known about the Suzo. I just saw one sell for $35 and could have had it. I need to quit spending money anyhow. I just bought another ASCII stick to put in another Namco stick. :lol:

Kyle, in my experience, the LS-55 is what you want if you want to feel something INCREDIBLY different from a JLF. I was blown away by how much tighter and faster the 55 was when I first popped it in. I donā€™t even like the JLF when given a choice nowadays. Hell, Iā€™m playing Marvel on a 55, and thatā€™s my top fighter, so if that doesnā€™t speak volumes I donā€™t know what will. BTW, Marvel IS a shmup at high level play in case you were wondering what with all the garbage onscreen.

PS I wonder which schmuck was selling a Suzo for 35 bones.

PPS Ikagi, Iā€™m doing a price check with you before I sell anything joystick related:rofl:

Yeah, I saw that one too. .Cobra is one lucky man for netting one of those at $35.00. Iā€™ve seen those go on average for $60.00 to $80.00. Oh well, definitely hit up SHMUPs for one of those Suzo Inductive Joysticks. Iā€™m almost positive thereā€™s still a few there unsold. Also, congrats on getting another ASCII Optical Joystick! Those things are awesome in all kinds of ways.

Anyways to get back on your joystick question, definitely do give the LS-32 a bit more of a chance. It may be a humble microswitch joystick, but itā€™s still the standard in SHMUP arcade cabinets for a reason! And itā€™s most definitely Cave approved. Otherwise you wouldnā€™t be seeing the Hori licensed Mushihime-sama Futari 1.5 stick toting an LS-32! :lol:

Actually, all the SHMUPs on the Xbox 360 are probably the reason why they have the Hori Real Arcade Pro EX-SE in such plentiful quantities in the first place! Man, I do love all the SHMUP love the Xbox 360 is getting. Too bad that I donā€™t have a Japanese X360 though; I really want to play Mushihime-sama Futari 1.5. :sad:

Oh well, Iā€™ll definitely be able to live if Senko no Ronde 2 comes to the US and if Treasure ever decides to release Radiant Silvergun on Xbox LIVE Arcade. Man, THAT would be freaking cool! Itā€™s my favorite SHMUP ever made! :lovin:

Iā€™m a big fan of the LS-56. Itā€™s one of my favorite sticks. I agree thatā€™s itā€™s a great deviation from the JLF. Iā€™ve been around the world of sticks and Iā€™m stuck on the opticals. My question, if I even have one, is that I bought an EX SE w/LS-32 thinking I would be able to make smaller, more precise movements with the on-screen character in shmups. Instead I was not able to perceive the difference. I normally play with the difficulty cranked up. I may be in such a zen state that Iā€™d only truly notice if the stick sucked. Thanks to everyone who chimed in.

Oh, and Ikagi-chan, Futari is region free. You should know this! Go buy it already!

Yeah, I guess itā€™s really just a matter of playing with a joystick for a decent period of time. Itā€™s definitely hard to perceive the difference right away. Just keep running with it; Iā€™m sure youā€™ll grow room in your heart for an LS-32. :lovin:

eczangief, sure thing man! :lol:

Also, Kyle, I thought that Mushihime-sama Futari 1.5 was locked to NTSC-J? I know it (well, actually just ā€œsomeā€ regulars and the limited edition) came with the 1.01 region free downloadable content code, but I thought that was the only part that was region free. Can you really play 1.5 on an NTSC-U unit?

You are seriously killing me. Go buy the game. It is the only region free 360 title Cave has done. I have been playing it daily on my poor little NTSC-U system since Christmas.

http://www.play-asia.com/paOS-13-71-br-49-en-70-3cq6.html

Gradius V and Mushihime Sama are both 8-way games.

4 way games are things like Pac Man, Donkey Kong, and games of that era.

But yeah, playing Mushi and Gradius with a 4 way stick will sure as hell make them ā€œv hardā€. :lol:

Oh. My. Lord. :sleep:

Kyle, you have NO idea how hype youā€™ve made me now! Iā€™ve so got to save up and pick up a copy; I havenā€™t owned a Cave shooter since Mushihime-sama and Ibara on the PlayStation 2! Thanks for that information! Hail to Cave for making Mushihime-sama Futari region free and giving me another comforting reassurance that buying an Xbox 360 instead of a PlayStation 3 was a good idea! :lovin:

Now if only Hori would release those Virtua On Oratorio Tangram Xbox 360 Twin Sticks statesideā€¦ :xeye:

Itā€™s a fantastic port. If you liked the original you will definitely love it. Did you have a legit copy of Ibara? If so, what did you pay for it? Iā€™ve been trying to land a copy of it. Itā€™s the most obscenely priced of the PS2 Cave ports. The joke is that the actual game PCB sells for less than the PS2 version. I have Mushi, DDP, and Espgaluda so far for PS2. Espgaluda II, which is the sequel to my other favorite Cave shmup is getting a 360 release this Feb. Itā€™s still up for debate whether it will be region free. The prominent people on the shmup forum seem to believe that it will be locked to NTSC-J consoles. Maybe they are just pessimistic jerks. :arazz:

For VOOT, unless youā€™re rolling in cash, Iā€™d get a mojochan Saturn to PS2 converter and go that route. Arenā€™t the Hori sticks something insane like $400? Thatā€™s HSS money! :lol:

I like the LS-32 a lot more for shmups, but I canā€™t stand the LS-32 for fighting games. The microswitches are too easy to hit by accident in the LS-32. You need precise inputs and with the shortcut nonsense in SF IV thats pretty hard to achieve if you play a character like Seth where he has moves that overlap moves (SPD, Sonic Boom and Tandem Engine ect) With the LS-32 I die so much because the wrong moves are always coming out when Iā€™m playing, costing me the match.

Haha! True, the Xbox 360 Virtual On Oratorio Tangram Twin Sticks are really pricey, but besides the actual arcade machines and that Hori Twin Stick, weā€™ve never gotten the official Sanwa levers anywhere else. Ah well, Iā€™d definitely gun for one of mojochanā€™s converters for VOOT with a set of Saturn Twin Sticks though since you are right, that is HSS-0130 money right there. :xeye:

Although in retrospect this was a dumbass move on my part, I gifted my copy of Ibara to my best friend about a year after I bought it since he loved the game so much. For now, Iā€™m content with running it off of my HDD with HDLoader, but thatā€™s another matter. I picked up my copy back in 2006 when it released in Japan. Play-Asia back then had it for roughly $70.00, so not much more than it costs to import a game today. Believe me, the prices that Ibara is fetching for online is CRAZY. Itā€™s the only other game besides Radiant Silvergun and Panzer Dragoon Saga that Iā€™ve ever seen fetch that much dough in one place. Really, $300.00 for a used copy is the norm on eBay? Thatā€™s high! Though I do understand the craze; Ibaraā€™s port was frankly perfect and if you ask me, it was probably Caveā€™s most well done SHMUP that got released in the 6th generation of video game consoles (PlayStation 2, Gamecube, Xbox 1 era for those not in the know).

The one thing I REALLY wish I could try out is DoDonPachi Daioujou Black Label for the Xbox 360. I missed out on the original DDPDOJ port for the PS2 which is driving me CRAZY since the only DDP action Iā€™ve seen so far is the original arcade release and I really want to see how itā€™s come since then. Youā€™re lucky to own a copy of it Kyle. :tup:

Hmmm im just getting into Shmups. Thanks to my older brother who left around classics like Thunder Force for Saturn and Ikaruga/Rsilvergun. I have to try out a Seimitsu/Suzo stick, because ive been doing good with a JLF, but if Seimitsu/Suzo is as good as you guys say it is for shmups, I gotta get one.

I have big ideas for a Mame cabinet, now I gotta throw in the idea of adding a dedicated Suzo section.

No doubt! Gosh, itā€™d be a miracle if someone could pull off a 1 credit run of Mushihime-samaā€™s second level on a 4-way joystick. Forget about even trying the old school Gradius or my personal favorite Gradius III. :xeye:

I do see where youā€™re coming from Digital-. The LS-32 really is very precise, though itā€™s application in fighting games really shouldnā€™t be judged on Street Fighter IV. After all, Street Fighter III 3rd Strikeā€™s and Super Street Fighter II Turboā€™s original cabinets had LS-32s in them and they worked just peachy. Really, in this case, Iā€™m willing to place all the blame on SFIVā€™s move shortcuts and gigantic input windows. :lol:

Lemme tell you asr10 user, the Suzo Inductive Joystick isnā€™t like anything youā€™ve ever felt. Itā€™s completely silent, only letting off a very quiet ā€œtapā€ when you move the joystick to any given direction. Thatā€™s the sound of the magnetic plates touching and activating the direction. The throw is even crazier; itā€™s nearly 5 degrees of deflection which is insanely small of a throw and the spring is comfortably heavy so you donā€™t need to yank it around to get it working. I dunno what to say really, itā€™s just a unique experience you have to feel yourself to understand. Do try to land one though, you wonā€™t regret it one bit for your SHMUP craze! Kudos to you as well for Thunder Force, Ikaruga and Radiant Silvergun. Those games are tight.