If you cant afford 2 seperate customs atm then stick with the JLF because i feel like its the better choice for fighting games, some disagree but i prefer it. If you can then i remember a few people on here said ls32s are way better for SHMUPS because the smaller deadzone helps esp in games like Mushime-sama where even a few pixels in the wrong direction spells death.
Reading your post, Iād say JLF all the way. I guess you have already formed your preferences about sticks, so if you feel doubtful about the LS-32 you can go with the JLF and be a happy man.
I usually plug my JLF modded stick and switch with no problems between fighters and shooters, but with the LS-32 one I feel like itās made only for shmups play. Which is not the absolute truth by any means, itās just my personal opinion. Btw playing Touhou games with a JLF can be a HUGE problem. In danmaku games a Seimitsu LS-32 stick is the best choice (stiffer lever, smaller deadzone, clicky feeling).
this thread is so full of lols.
To me the JLF is virtually unplayable on Shmups. But a Seimitsu works fine for fighters. So if I had to choose something to share between the two Iād go Seimitsu.
I think I might just work an assload of overtime this week and just keep both, lol. Because I am really starting to get into danmaku gamesā¦
Sorry to necro an old thread but itās most relevant.
Is there honestly a significant difference between a JLF with a harder spring and a LS-32?
I just got an EX SE in the mail and was expecting a bigger difference than what I have with my current setup. Right now Iām using an Namco joystick that has an ASCII optical stick and a Namco spring for extra tension. I can pull off short twitchy moves without any trouble. I was thinking the LS-32 would give me an even finer level of control.
Granted, I am not a godlike 1CC shmup master (I donāt enough time to play that obsessively). I do play them more than fighters though.
Any thoughts from someone else who has tried both?
Next week Iāll have an EX SE and a HRAP EX side by side. It should help me settle this.
Kyle, I can see where your question is spawning from. Iāve tried to use my ASCII Optical for SHMUPs as well! :lol:
Anyways, there does exist a pretty fine difference for SHMUPs when using a Seimitsu LS-32 instead of a Sanwa JLF. Itās not so much the spring actually, itās more of the throw, engage distances, etc. A harder spring gives the illusion of being okay for twitchier movements by making you unconsciously press a direction harder than you normally would and therefore increasing the speed at which your joystick engages which serves to cover up the twitch factor since youāre simply registering the engage faster. The springās purpose is twofold, first to ensure that the joystick will return to neutral if the player releases the joystick. The second part of the springās purpose lies in its resistance. The more resistance you find in a spring, the more accurate your directions become. I wonāt pretend that i know the scientific reson as to why, but it just sort of works out that way. Notice how on an old school Happ or iL Competition joystick the joystick seems to travel more true in any of the 8 directions than if you were using say a Sanwa JLF. Iām getting sidetracked and some people will undoubtedly call BS on my assertions, but this is what Iāve observed.
Now as for the engage distances, Kyle, keep in mind that the Sanwa HS-ASSY FLASH 1 PCB and the ASCII Optical Joystick PCB were made to-spec of the Sanwa JLF. They definitely feel more precise than the JLF since theyāre using optics instead of mechanical switches. However, the LS-32 still has a smaller deadzone and engage distance than the JLF. It has the right combination of spring tension, engage distance, and deadzone such that you can truly utilize twitch reflexes with utmost precision in any direction. However, for SHMUPs, youād ideally have a Suzo Inductive Joystick. It has an INSANELY short throw and an even shorter engage. It uses magnetic induction instead of optics or microswitches to activate inputs, a truly unique joystick which you wonāt find anywhere else in the world. As far as Iām concerned, any stick that can mount a Happ or iL joystick at the proper height should be able to mount a Suzo Inductive just fine. Hunt one down if you can. They absolutely SUCK for fighting games, but you canāt find a better joystick anywhere for SHMUPs. :tup:
Thanks for the lengthy reply. I may have been unfairly comparing the ASCII Optical to the JLF. I wish I would have known about the Suzo. I just saw one sell for $35 and could have had it. I need to quit spending money anyhow. I just bought another ASCII stick to put in another Namco stick. :lol:
Kyle, in my experience, the LS-55 is what you want if you want to feel something INCREDIBLY different from a JLF. I was blown away by how much tighter and faster the 55 was when I first popped it in. I donāt even like the JLF when given a choice nowadays. Hell, Iām playing Marvel on a 55, and thatās my top fighter, so if that doesnāt speak volumes I donāt know what will. BTW, Marvel IS a shmup at high level play in case you were wondering what with all the garbage onscreen.
PS I wonder which schmuck was selling a Suzo for 35 bones.
PPS Ikagi, Iām doing a price check with you before I sell anything joystick related:rofl:
Yeah, I saw that one too. .Cobra is one lucky man for netting one of those at $35.00. Iāve seen those go on average for $60.00 to $80.00. Oh well, definitely hit up SHMUPs for one of those Suzo Inductive Joysticks. Iām almost positive thereās still a few there unsold. Also, congrats on getting another ASCII Optical Joystick! Those things are awesome in all kinds of ways.
Anyways to get back on your joystick question, definitely do give the LS-32 a bit more of a chance. It may be a humble microswitch joystick, but itās still the standard in SHMUP arcade cabinets for a reason! And itās most definitely Cave approved. Otherwise you wouldnāt be seeing the Hori licensed Mushihime-sama Futari 1.5 stick toting an LS-32! :lol:
Actually, all the SHMUPs on the Xbox 360 are probably the reason why they have the Hori Real Arcade Pro EX-SE in such plentiful quantities in the first place! Man, I do love all the SHMUP love the Xbox 360 is getting. Too bad that I donāt have a Japanese X360 though; I really want to play Mushihime-sama Futari 1.5. :sad:
Oh well, Iāll definitely be able to live if Senko no Ronde 2 comes to the US and if Treasure ever decides to release Radiant Silvergun on Xbox LIVE Arcade. Man, THAT would be freaking cool! Itās my favorite SHMUP ever made! :lovin:
Iām a big fan of the LS-56. Itās one of my favorite sticks. I agree thatās itās a great deviation from the JLF. Iāve been around the world of sticks and Iām stuck on the opticals. My question, if I even have one, is that I bought an EX SE w/LS-32 thinking I would be able to make smaller, more precise movements with the on-screen character in shmups. Instead I was not able to perceive the difference. I normally play with the difficulty cranked up. I may be in such a zen state that Iād only truly notice if the stick sucked. Thanks to everyone who chimed in.
Oh, and Ikagi-chan, Futari is region free. You should know this! Go buy it already!
Yeah, I guess itās really just a matter of playing with a joystick for a decent period of time. Itās definitely hard to perceive the difference right away. Just keep running with it; Iām sure youāll grow room in your heart for an LS-32. :lovin:
eczangief, sure thing man! :lol:
Also, Kyle, I thought that Mushihime-sama Futari 1.5 was locked to NTSC-J? I know it (well, actually just āsomeā regulars and the limited edition) came with the 1.01 region free downloadable content code, but I thought that was the only part that was region free. Can you really play 1.5 on an NTSC-U unit?
You are seriously killing me. Go buy the game. It is the only region free 360 title Cave has done. I have been playing it daily on my poor little NTSC-U system since Christmas.
Gradius V and Mushihime Sama are both 8-way games.
4 way games are things like Pac Man, Donkey Kong, and games of that era.
But yeah, playing Mushi and Gradius with a 4 way stick will sure as hell make them āv hardā. :lol:
Oh. My. Lord. :sleep:
Kyle, you have NO idea how hype youāve made me now! Iāve so got to save up and pick up a copy; I havenāt owned a Cave shooter since Mushihime-sama and Ibara on the PlayStation 2! Thanks for that information! Hail to Cave for making Mushihime-sama Futari region free and giving me another comforting reassurance that buying an Xbox 360 instead of a PlayStation 3 was a good idea! :lovin:
Now if only Hori would release those Virtua On Oratorio Tangram Xbox 360 Twin Sticks statesideā¦ :xeye:
Itās a fantastic port. If you liked the original you will definitely love it. Did you have a legit copy of Ibara? If so, what did you pay for it? Iāve been trying to land a copy of it. Itās the most obscenely priced of the PS2 Cave ports. The joke is that the actual game PCB sells for less than the PS2 version. I have Mushi, DDP, and Espgaluda so far for PS2. Espgaluda II, which is the sequel to my other favorite Cave shmup is getting a 360 release this Feb. Itās still up for debate whether it will be region free. The prominent people on the shmup forum seem to believe that it will be locked to NTSC-J consoles. Maybe they are just pessimistic jerks. :arazz:
For VOOT, unless youāre rolling in cash, Iād get a mojochan Saturn to PS2 converter and go that route. Arenāt the Hori sticks something insane like $400? Thatās HSS money! :lol:
I like the LS-32 a lot more for shmups, but I canāt stand the LS-32 for fighting games. The microswitches are too easy to hit by accident in the LS-32. You need precise inputs and with the shortcut nonsense in SF IV thats pretty hard to achieve if you play a character like Seth where he has moves that overlap moves (SPD, Sonic Boom and Tandem Engine ect) With the LS-32 I die so much because the wrong moves are always coming out when Iām playing, costing me the match.
Haha! True, the Xbox 360 Virtual On Oratorio Tangram Twin Sticks are really pricey, but besides the actual arcade machines and that Hori Twin Stick, weāve never gotten the official Sanwa levers anywhere else. Ah well, Iād definitely gun for one of mojochanās converters for VOOT with a set of Saturn Twin Sticks though since you are right, that is HSS-0130 money right there. :xeye:
Although in retrospect this was a dumbass move on my part, I gifted my copy of Ibara to my best friend about a year after I bought it since he loved the game so much. For now, Iām content with running it off of my HDD with HDLoader, but thatās another matter. I picked up my copy back in 2006 when it released in Japan. Play-Asia back then had it for roughly $70.00, so not much more than it costs to import a game today. Believe me, the prices that Ibara is fetching for online is CRAZY. Itās the only other game besides Radiant Silvergun and Panzer Dragoon Saga that Iāve ever seen fetch that much dough in one place. Really, $300.00 for a used copy is the norm on eBay? Thatās high! Though I do understand the craze; Ibaraās port was frankly perfect and if you ask me, it was probably Caveās most well done SHMUP that got released in the 6th generation of video game consoles (PlayStation 2, Gamecube, Xbox 1 era for those not in the know).
The one thing I REALLY wish I could try out is DoDonPachi Daioujou Black Label for the Xbox 360. I missed out on the original DDPDOJ port for the PS2 which is driving me CRAZY since the only DDP action Iāve seen so far is the original arcade release and I really want to see how itās come since then. Youāre lucky to own a copy of it Kyle. :tup:
Hmmm im just getting into Shmups. Thanks to my older brother who left around classics like Thunder Force for Saturn and Ikaruga/Rsilvergun. I have to try out a Seimitsu/Suzo stick, because ive been doing good with a JLF, but if Seimitsu/Suzo is as good as you guys say it is for shmups, I gotta get one.
I have big ideas for a Mame cabinet, now I gotta throw in the idea of adding a dedicated Suzo section.
No doubt! Gosh, itād be a miracle if someone could pull off a 1 credit run of Mushihime-samaās second level on a 4-way joystick. Forget about even trying the old school Gradius or my personal favorite Gradius III. :xeye:
I do see where youāre coming from Digital-. The LS-32 really is very precise, though itās application in fighting games really shouldnāt be judged on Street Fighter IV. After all, Street Fighter III 3rd Strikeās and Super Street Fighter II Turboās original cabinets had LS-32s in them and they worked just peachy. Really, in this case, Iām willing to place all the blame on SFIVās move shortcuts and gigantic input windows. :lol:
Lemme tell you asr10 user, the Suzo Inductive Joystick isnāt like anything youāve ever felt. Itās completely silent, only letting off a very quiet ātapā when you move the joystick to any given direction. Thatās the sound of the magnetic plates touching and activating the direction. The throw is even crazier; itās nearly 5 degrees of deflection which is insanely small of a throw and the spring is comfortably heavy so you donāt need to yank it around to get it working. I dunno what to say really, itās just a unique experience you have to feel yourself to understand. Do try to land one though, you wonāt regret it one bit for your SHMUP craze! Kudos to you as well for Thunder Force, Ikaruga and Radiant Silvergun. Those games are tight.