i think he most telling argument (at least for cali anyway) is that last weeks WNF the WHOLE thing was nothing but MvC3 and only 2 MK9 matches. there was no cut to one thing or the other just one whole tournament being played and not being able to watch at least some of the other despite being told a decent number of people entered MK9. i dont care if it started late , shit happens, you deal with it. but couldnt they have shown a mix of both tournaments instead of just one? absolutely and thats whats bullshit.
Yeah, if I had gone into detail in the article, the IGN crowd would have just gone in with really half-baked arguments like “MK has Fatalities!!” The casual MK audience is not the one to mess with. I remember back in the days of agsf2, I had an argument with an MK fan. I was explaining why Alpha 1 was deeper than MK3 (they were the games at the time). The guy responded with, “But MK has better graphics, better sound, fatalities, and you can punch people through floors.” Of course, at the time, I was an internet newb so maybe I was being trolled and I didn’t realize it. But I really doubt that was the case. I think that guy GENUINELY thought that’s what made MK a better game.
But the people here who are hardcore Fighting Game players deserve more explanation. So I’m gonna explain WHY I think MK has less depth than most games. And it only has half to do with the combo system. I actually don’t care about MvC’s Combo System in terms of depth, though it lends itself to AN area of depth (I love how Magneto, for example, has had about 6 different loop variations in two months of the games existence, each one getting more an more optimal). While one of my sticking points of MK does involve combos, the other area is not combo related at all.
The reason I think MK lacks the area of creativity and depth is simply a difference in game design philosophy. Yes, I’m a Capcom fan and a Capcom Fighting Game elitist: I admitted so much in my article calling myself a Fighting Game snob. But there’s a reason for that: it’s because Capcom games are always designed by SYSTEM. And I’ve always talked about MK games, even since the early days, as a game designed by SPECIFICS. And therein lies the difference between the games.
In the early days, great examples of these specifics were Scorpion hitting you with a spear and then you jumping and that causes the opponent to instantly recover. This is not a game system. This is literally code added to the game SPECIFICALLY for Scorpion. Another example is the “Special Move Count” in previous MK games where stuff like Sub-Zero’s Ice Freeze was just allowed as the first 3 hits of a combo, but if attempted later in the combo, it just wouldn’t come out. That, again, is a CHARACTER SPECIFIC limitation, not a game system limitation. As an example of a system limitation in MvC3, to prevent infinites, you get overarching rules such as “Only one ground bounce per combo.” Doesn’t matter who it is, it just works that way. You can swap characters everywhere and whatnot, you just can’t get more than one ground bounce (with the exception of some moves like Ammy’s charged Jumping H in Glaive Mode. And while that sounds like a character specific limitation, it’s not: it’s a character specific POWER. Which is a vastly different thing).
Now, don’t get me wrong, MK9 has taken GREAT leaps and bounds to enter the realm of system-based rules as opposed to character specific rules. Most of the character specific rules no longer exist in MK9 outside of special cases like Sub-Zero’s ice and such (but that’s because he’s the only character with ice moves… well, outside of Cyber Sub-Zero, but he follows the same ice rules as Sub-Zero). Two spears in a combo now leads to a attack that flattens the opponent. Ground bounces work similarly. Uppercuts in the corner will pop the opponent out to prevent multiple uppercuts in the corner easily. Etc. etc. Some of it still exists (being unable to perform a ground freeze with Sub when a statue is out, but that’s really for the sake of balance), but for the most part it’s gone.
However, they need to take the step further in expanding on these concepts. Right now, the area of greatest annoyance to me are two areas: hit stun and chain combos.
The area of hit stun bothers me because it prevents the ability to come up with more even more creative combos. The reason I say this is because you start finding combos that aren’t “optimal” but situational in many other games. For example, in SSFIV, some characters can be hit by Cammy’s Low Fierce into Low Roundhouse link. Not all, but some. This creates an opportunity to allow for non-techable knockdowns for future setups: sacrificing damage for potential future damage.
In MK, for ground-based combos, the game has is so that what combos is EXACTLY what they wanted to combo. Basically, the rule is: if it’s a chain combo, it’ll all connect so long as you cancel a move before it reaches the end of the chain. Scorpion can do FP FP Spear but not FP FP FP Spear because all three FP’s end the chain. Scorpion can do Forward + BK into Spear ONLY because Forward + BK happens to start a chain. If it were a solo move, this wouldn’t combo.
What this basically means is that, when it comes to Juggling, which is where MK’s Combo system shines, everything is free form. Scorpion’s FP FP FP into Spear works as a Juggle. But for some odd reason, on the ground, everything is limited. If I can find a combo where FP FP links into FK FK with Scorpion, why shouldn’t I be allowed to do such a thing? It’s an example of where the game is limiting people for, essentially, almost no reason. Gravity counters Air Infinites, I think a system could be put in place to prevent ground infinites. Now, that only mid-chain moves are comboable from IS a system, but I just feel like it’s a system that limits 90% of the options out there. I’d prefer to see a system in place that causes less limitations. Hit Stun Deterioration is a limitation, but doesn’t apply to the start of 99% of the combos. So again, it doesn’t limit the options, it limits the results. It limits what happens at the end of a combo, which is generally far less important in the grand scheme of things than what happens at the start of a combo.
My other complain about Chain Combos is that dial-a-combo nature of them. I wish MK9 would have implemented more of a “Window” based Chain Combo system where you can chain later in a move’s hitting period. It would allow for more hit confirms on the ground and hit confirms are, to me, a very important aspect of fighting games and an area that generates larger variance in gameplay. Right now, the chain combos must be inputted BEFORE the move hits, so there is little reaction you can utilize and no timing variances. Yeah, maybe Kung Lao has enough time to see if Back + FK FK is hitting before he combos into spin, but in general, you’ve had your mind made up to go for the low into spin beforehand.
I would have liked to see the developers allow more for expanded control on the chain combos. Delaying hits, performing later cancels, etc. If you think about it, allowing just that ONE change opens up a GIGANTIC WORLD in MK. The variety and options have almost grown exponentially. MvC3, for example, allows for this and it’s actually where you get a large variety. From Rekka Ken baits (which is what I like to call doing two Rekkas against a blocking opponent and then a third one late to catch someone trying to punish the second Rekka) of doing a chain and delaying the Launcher at the end to catch the opponent; to allowing for interesting combos (Magnet’s Staircase combo in the corner is a result directly of the ability to cancel moves into an Air Dash at any point after a move makes contact); to allowing for ways around defense (Doom can Air Dash cancel Foot Dive slightly later so that if the enemy Pushblocks Foot Dive, you can counteract the Push Block by Air Dashing AFTER the Pushblock), the open world of cancels allows for players to be creative and allows players to develop tricks and setups and alternate ways of performing what seemed like a canned sequence.
The counter argument to this, provided to me by Alex Valle, was that, if you could hit confirm moves and chains, some characters would be way too powerful. His explanation is that you HAVE to make Dial-A-Combos in MK because, if there weren’t, some powerful chains would become OVERpowered being able to stop them early. It’s a great argument, and really has altered the way I look at the chain combo limits in MK9.
My third complaint, and this one is least valid, more of a personal preference thing, is that I just generally have a distaste for this type of gameplay. Up close, the game becomes a high/low mixup game. There really isn’t much else and, between the characters, I just feel like I have to find my best combo off a low hit and off a high hit. And that, to me, really doesn’t lend itself well to character variety.
But this is a complaint I have with MOST 3-D games like Tekken as well. So yeah, don’t get me wrong: this complaint is 100% coming from the fact that I am a 2-D Capcom Fighter. I hinted to that in the article as well when I said that most 3-D players seem to be doing better and have less issues. Tekken players and DOA players are having a much better time with the game it seems. But because I’m a Capcom Fighter, I would have preferred seeing Sheeva actually have command grabs that work on standing and crouching characters (and of course, meaning you can’t be thrown out of block stun), a character who has no high/low mixup but has amazing safe chip moves that have no range, etc.
Some of this character variety limitations is also a result of every character having the SAME health, the same jump arcs, the same jump attacks, the same Throw Ranges, etc. You can’t make a “grappler” type character unless they generally have higher health and do more damage than normal and have more limited jumps and dashes. You can’t make Pixie characters without giving them less health and faster jumps and such. I just feel like that what we have to learn about the game will be learned much more quickly than other games. So to me, the variety just isn’t there and thusly the depth isn’t as significant as other Fighting Games.
So there you have it. My detailed explanation. And understand: I don’t know everything about MK and I’m terrible at the game. But I AM playing it and I WANT it to be good, so I’m looking for all the good in the game and I’m looking hard. I’m saying what I said in the article again here, but it’s true: I don’t hate the game nor do I want it to be bad nor do I think it IS bad. I like the game right now and I think it’s fun but I want it to be MORE. I feel like the game could be AMAZING with just the right things opened up.
At the same time, though, again I don’t know everything about the game. So a lot of what I say could very well be flawed. But like someone said, unfortunately, I have the forum to speak out more loudly about it (IGN) and, in some ways, it’s kinda my job to be a little inflammatory with what I say. 
It’s good business. Hahaha! No one told me to do it, FYI, so don’t go yelling at IGN about it. It’s something that I just understand when it comes to writing articles. But you can see that even I have trouble going the full mile as guys like Bill Simmons on ESPN can do: I still have to temper everything with hope and optimism, but that’s just because that’s who I am.
- James
awesome post
This applies to every casual fan, not just MK.
In UMK3, the instant recover after you jump after a Spear isn’t specific to just Scorpion. It also applies to Sindel, Robot Smoke, and Human Smoke.
The hit limits also apply to every character, the hit limit just varies based on the move. Ermac, Human Smoke, and Robot Smoke all can only get 4 hits before a Spear or TKS. If you were to land 5 hits and then try a Spear or TKS, it wouldn’t come out. This is to prevent combos from being too high in damage. Also, characters such as Sub-Zero, Kabal, Unmasked Sub, Sektor, Robot Smoke and some others have a 1 hit limit before they can do a Dash, Freeze, Teleport Uppercut etc. These hit limits pertain to certain moves to prevent broken damaging combos or infinites.
Basically, all of the above is your “problem” with the combo system. Which, combos don’t determine depth, or rather, they play a very small part. MK has never been known for it’s hard combos, or difficult execution. Actually, that’s one of the appeals of MK. It’s not an execution heavy game. You don’t have to be an expert at hitting a button in 1 frame to be good at the game. It’s more about minds games, outsmarting your opponent, pressure, zoning, etc. The jabs and pokes aren’t hit confirmable, so it’s not like MvC3 where you’re just trying to land a hit that leads to 30 second long combos. What people need to do is stop comparing MK games to other fighters, because it’s really not like other fighters, that’s why a lot of people love it (and hate it). The people that are saying MK9 has little depth are probably the same people that claim UMK3 has little depth. Which if you’re ignorant to the two, I can see you making that assessment.
the way i see it, its completely FINE to have biases in fighting games because every fighting game is different (playstyle, rules, characters etc) and appeals to different people for a myriad of reasons. the only thing i can honestly say is bad or stupid is to say that game X is not that good because it doesnt play like game Y cause all that happens is people who like game X get mad at Journalist Z cause its obvious he likes Y more and so it makes NO SENSE for Z to talk about X.
at the end of the day, MK9 is gonna play like MK9 with its limitations, quirks, its own depth and whathaveyou. if you dont like it or cant get into its not the games fault its just the player. but im glad you came out with a thought out argument as to what issues your having with MK (and i feel your pain with Sheeva, whose throw game is a reverse of Zangief cause she cant really throw outside of a combo). all i can really say is that what ever limitations are ingrained into the system are probably there for a reason like balance or to stave off infinites and such. but anyways, nice post and hope you keep playing and im sure the game will keep evolving as more people know what to expect how to plan accordingly as time goes on.
I guess I can get behind these. Would be interesting to see…
You’re missing the point. Combos don’t determine depth (unlike what Kaijima was trying to argue a page earlier) but mechanics do. A combo system, determines a player’s myriad (or lack of) options he can approach when fighting his opponent. Basically, everything James Chen actually emphasized in his post.
The horribly exaggerated “I don’t wanna do 1 frame links” or “I don’t wanna do a 30 second combo” defense doesn’t work when he’s arguing in favor of multifaceted options.
I swear this is a copy paste of your response to my post on TYM
edit
actually it is
First off, thank you for taking the time to outlines your concerns with the game. It gives us a chance to actually dissect the game more instead of just theorizing about secret fighting game hate clubs or whatever.
I still have to respectfully disagree, however. I’ll respond to each point individually.
1.) Combos
Its kinda weird to pick on a combo system in a fighting game unless it leads to really weird stuff. Combos are pretty much just a minigame that a player who scores a hit gets to play to increase their damage.
UMK3’s combo count limit was a universal system. The variable was assigned to every special move in the game. SF4’s juggle system is actually very similar - the launcher determines what moves can be used against the airborne opponent. Each move has a juggle state variable that determines if it can connect with an airborne opponent off of particular launchers. It seems very odd to me to find fault with UMK3’s system when SF4’s is so similar.
The only gripe I can think of with UMK3’s system is that it feels very weird to have a move just turn off like that. To that end, I think that MK9’s system solves that perfectly. Instead, the move just loses the properties that make it able to combo, but you can still end with it if you’d like. It feels natural in a setting where combo set-ups like wall bounce and ground bounce are limited to once per combo.
As to combo variance - remember that it took a while before people started heavily using resets. Sure, Justin started doing it nearly immediately, but it took a little bit for everyone else to get it. It’s the same thing in MK9, and since so many people are out of their element it might take even longer.
The options are still there though. For example, Scorpion can end his bnb with 1, 1, Takedown for good damage. He can instead end with 1, 1, Spear for less damage but better okizime. It’s a very similar thing, and it’s a decision that you have to make based on the matchup, which is perfect.
Hit-Confirms
Your whole argument here relies on the idea that hit confirms are necessary for fighting games. I really don’t think that’s true at all.
What hit confirms do is allow you to make a decision after the result of your gambit occurs. It devolves your attack pattern into a simple ‘if/then’ algorithm - if your mixup hit, you continue the combo. If it didn’t, you end with something safe.
There’s definitely something to be said about that sort of system. However, I think that it’s not necessarily straight-up better. I personally find it obnoxious that I can and often do lose a character in MvC3 just because I didn’t block a two frame low attack.
Having fewer hit confirms means you can’t devolve your attack pattern to that algorithm. You HAVE to make a read on your opponent as soon as you start your pressure because once you start, you’re going to commit. That heightens player to player interaction, which in my opinion is a very good thing.
MvC3 is on the extreme left side of the hit confirm scale. SF4 is somewhere in the middle, and MK9 is on the far right. I don’t really see a problem with diversifying games like this, and I definitely don’t think that every game should move to the level of hit confirms that MvC3 represents.
Mixups
I think you’re missing a lot of mixup styles here. There are more things that you can do besides a high/low attack. I’ll try to name a few more offensive options:
-
Throw. Of course there’s always this, but I wanted to point out that it’s particularly effective in MK9 for two reasons. One, you can’t tech a throw while holding the block button. Two, the throw tech is a 50/50 and is not simply the throw button itself. That means if you’re turtling, you’re much more prone to a throw because the block button messes it up. It also means that if you read the throw wrong, instead of getting a counter throw, you get a normal that can be punished. There’s also the dynamic that throw whiffs if you’re crouching without blocking, which adds a whole new level of complexity to the mixup.
-
Cross-up jumping punch. While you don’t really have a chance to break the opponent’s guard with the direction change like in games that don’t have a block button, you do mess up their controls, limiting their counter options.
-
Delay a high priority move to bait a counter attack. Waiting a little bit before Lao’s spin can work nicely to nail people who try to poke their way out of your offense.
Then there are a bunch of other defensive options besides stand/crouch block:
-
Uppercut. It beats almost every standing normal, but if you whiff you’re in trouble.
-
Early jump kick. Beats crossup punches or badly timed jump ins and the like.
-
Wakeup attacks. Mostly the same complexity as reversal DPs.
So yeah, I commend you for posting your rationale. It’s awesome that you’re trying to justify yourself to the internet, which most people would just write off as a lost cause. I do think additional information would alleviate some of your concerns though. Hopefully if I made any sense here, some of this info can put your mind at ease for this game.
tl;dr - It’s awesome that you posted your thoughts on this. I still disagree, but at least we get to talk about it now!
well that explains why it seemed like he didn’t read the post.
Yup, it is. James obviously isn’t on TYM. No need to say the same thing in a different way when I’ve already said it.
I respect your opinion and your authority of the MK-verse (as you have much more knowledge of the game) but at the same time I can’t help but feel that James’ response is valid (at least for discussion).
In some ways MK9 does feel limiting in comparison to other 2D fighter (my opinion), now whether it is fair to make that comparison is a whole different topic/question/discussion. MK9 can just very well be just a different system (that many are not used to), and as such should be treated as so, but that doesn’t mean you can’t make a comparison.
but then why would you want to? that implies that you actually expected it to play almost , or close enough to SF, despite the fact that it is made by different people and has a different sort of history (both good and bad) than SF. were mid-high level players really expecting that?
Actually, no. The entirety of my second argument had nothing to do with Combos at all. So this isn’t true.
No problem. It isn’t fair AT ALL for me to throw out a nebulous statement without backing myself up. My goal with the article and saying I didn’t want to explain it was never intended to be a total cop-out of responsibility. I just knew that it wouldn’t have done any good bringing it up there.
Absolutely. I would love to discuss it and, unlike most people on the internet, I would rather be proven wrong because me being wrong means the game is better than I think it is.
Yeah, I can definitely see the similarities. My only real argument against that is that the Juggle System of Capcom Fighting Games has always sucked. And I’m not a fan of it either. It started in ST when they decided they wanted moves to juggle, and they literally only implemented two limits: 3 and 6 (or 2 and 5 depending on how you view it). Once they got into later games, they had the ability to be more flexible and make it whatever number they wanted. In general, however, the number was designed in such a way to make it so that the move juggled the right number of hits. Chun’s Roundhouse Flash Kick’s Juggle Limit was exactly what it needed to be to allow for the Juggle to occur: 2. And so on and so forth.
It generally remained this way for a few games in Alpha 2, CvS1, and CvS2. The Juggle limits (except for some glaring omissions, which felt more like oversights and mistakes than choices) always were just enough to allow for that move to work the way it was intended.
It was only SFIV where they finally broke that and sorta started deciding, “Yeah, let’s just make this move Juggle. Fuck it.” Case in point: Cammy’s DP. No reason at all for that move to Juggle outside of giving her SOMETHING she could combo off of DP FADC besides Ultra. Frankly, nothing else worked because her Special Move set really kinda sucks.
But for the most part, the logic behind Juggles in Street Fighter remains to just allow a move to Juggle properly when the move hits as anti-air. Most of the time, finding goofy combos off of that really is just taking advantage of these numbers. The numbers, outside of that Cammy example, typically aren’t assigned based on what they think is “cheap” or overpowered.
In the case of the Special Move Count limit thing in MK, that’s exactly what it is. There’s no qualification on what that number is outside of a few people sitting down in a room trying to decide what those numbers should be. “4 would be too good, let’s make it 3.”
IMO, the better example than the Juggle Limits would be X-Factor boosts. Wesker gets 199% damage boost, Hulk gets 230%, etc. Chun Li gets 150% speed, Hulk gets zero. THOSE are the same, where it’s just people in a room picking numbers out of a hat based on what is “fair” and “cheap” in their minds.
I HATE THAT.
In fact, I’ve argued many a times that those numbers should be uniform across all characters. So it’s definitely not something unique to MK that I hate. I generally hate those kinds of systems in games. I love uniformity in game engines.
Almost all of MK’s combos end in Juggles outside of ones that end in Spears and Yells. But for the most part, everything is a knockdown once a character gets into the air. So resets are definitely harder to come by and, for the most part, once you get the opponent into the air, there is almost 0 reason to not go for whatever is the most damage as a result. By not allowing moves that cause people to land on their feet and such, there isn’t really a need for it. I’m not arguing that MK needs this variety, I prefer it being how it is. Juggling is one of MK’s traits that should NOT be changed. It defines the game a lot.
I don’t think so either, actually. But for some reason, I think it would benefit MK a lot. However…
I agree with this. And that’s exactly Valle’s point. And I did say that it really resonated with me.
Well, MvC3 isn’t really that far away from SFIV. SFIV is pretty hit confirm friendly as well. One of the most hit confirm friendly Street Fighter games ever, IMO. ST didn’t need hit confirms 'cause a lot of combos were safe on block so you just did them. Alpha 1 was retarded Hit Confirmable thanks to Chain Combos. Alpha 2 and 3 were probably the least hit confirmable Street Fighter games. CvS and CvS2 were very hit confirmable as well.
But this is kind of the point I was addressing with the comparison to Tekken. If I’m not mistaken, Tekken isn’t very hit confirmable either. You don’t really get that “Rekka Ken Trap” stuff in Tekken either, right? You pretty much have to commit to a chain attempt pretty early on. Which is why I think that Tekken players have taken to the game more than SF players.
It would be a really interesting experiment, IMO, when it comes to these windows for chaining. It would SIGNIFICANTLY change everything about MK, and I think it would make it really interesting and it opens up a lot to variety. The way I stand with it: I don’t have a problem with how it is, because your point and Valle’s point ring true. However, I still see this as a factor in why I think MK will be maxed out much quicker than other games. Again, there’s nothing wrong with the system itself from a competitive gaming standpoint - it’s a balanced system that causes no problems. I just think it leaves smaller room for growth in the game and that means we won’t be seeing lots of NEW things after a couple of more weeks.
Yeah, Throwing is definitely an option, but it’s one that is NOT unique. Everyone has the same throws. So with every character, it’s the same. I meant to add throws into my close-up mix-up game, but just forgot.
Again, it’s not unique. It’s a universal option for every character.
This kinda goes to Third Strike. Most people here probably assume I love everything Street Fighter and everything Capcom does is great. Well, one of the most snob-friendly games that is lauded by all Street Fighter players, Third Strike, well… frankly, I hate that game. I really do.
And that’s because of Parries. I hate Parries. Parries are a universal solution to every problem with every character. There’s almost NO problem that can be presented in Third Strike where the solution to countering it isn’t “Parry it.” How do I stop anti-airs? Parry it. How do I stop Meaties? Parry it. How do I stop Jump-ins? Parry it. What if someone tries to chip me with a Special Move when I have no life? Parry it. How do I stop a cross-up? Parry it.
Seriously, fml. How boring can you get? A Third Strike player once asked me, “SFIV is stupid. If I get knocked down with no life and someone tries to chip me when I get up, how can I escape??” My answer: “You don’t. You die. Don’t get in that position in the first place.”
So the point of me telling this story is that I really. Really. Really. Really love character variety. I love that some characters have no anti-air answers. I love that other characters have shitty back dashes that will get them killed when they try it. I love that some characters have great priority on Normals while others don’t. I love that some characters have super far ranged throws so their threat comes from a completely different area.
So the problem with MK is that the up/close game doesn’t vary between characters. Once you are there, it’s high into combo, low into combo, throw. And really not much else. The best variety you get is from the aborted block strings that leave you at an advantage or safe, like Johnny Cage’s kick chain.
Of course, this is mostly complaining about the closeup game. MK excels in the fact that everyone has crazy-ass moves that work from a screen away and such, so I like that. And obviously the differences in Special Moves will get you a decent variety, but
again, once you get up close, it all turns into almost the same game with every character: high, low, or throw.
Well, to be fair, I don’t care about justifying myself. I honestly feel like I OWE IT to the intelligent MK community to explain why I said what I did. It’s only fair. Whether or not people agree with me or think I’m an idiot isn’t important. It’s just that people should know why I feel how I feel. Having said that, though, if I get rational people like yourself providing good counter points, I can never resist a good discussion.
- James
Whenever I play/watch this game it feels like it’s just two people doing specials and mashing dial-a-combos hoping they hit because there’s nothing else you can do.
I really want to like it, but it’s just so bleh. I used play some pretty bad fighting games too…
by comparing the two systems/mechanics (SF and MK) you can clearly define characteristics of each system, which help in understanding on what makes them unique. (atleast imo)
For instance:
In SF, projectiles trade. Projectiles do not trade in MK. From there you can list pros and cons of each system, and from that you can develop the differentiating gameplay of each game.
(I feel like I worded that badly but reading non-stop U.S Foreign Policy is numbing my brains)
i’d like to add that wiffing target combos and getting the full sequence is pretty weird for me
also i don’t understand the ground game at all… where are the footsies people talk about? what’s the equivalent of a Shoto’s c.mk or Bison’s s.mk/hk?
99% of ground normals have slow startup and/or recovery… and they can be punished by super fast moves anyway (electric fly, slides, teleport punches etc.)
Well, yes. I can’t really say much about Baraka (sorry) but through the help of assists you can get completely new setups into combos. If you call Kitana in for an assist she throws her fan that locks the enemy in place for a little while if it connects so you can dash in for a combo (so this would be kind of like calling in golden Hsien-Ko for a pendulum, though with the exception that if it’s blocked it gives you little to nothing). If you’re stuck in a corner you can wakeup tag in Kitana to have her use her ex square boost for a relatively good chance to get out. And if you tag in Kitana mid combo she does her b+2 launcher and you can follow that up as you normally would with her. Using her as an example i feel that pretty much any character would be noticeably expanded upon.
In all honesty, i can’t really say much about how Tag Team is going to pan out because it is way too early and my experience pretty much just comes from training mode. I did however read that there is some Sheeva tag corner loop that can involve Baraka among other characters and with him it does 70% damage. That is obviously pretty good, so i assume that yes, he may be viable in Tag Team. However for that loop there where stronger characters that are also better overall. I believe Kano was one of them, so yeah… You probably should be mindful of what characters you pick. But the most important part is that Tag Team mode has the potential to really shuffle the tier list around because all of a sudden some options that didn’t seem too crazy at first might become really scary. For example a quick hitconfirmable combo into Noobs assist will render the opponent unable to block and might thusly grant you a bigger non hitconfirmable combo.
I found out about the Sheeva/Baraka combo and Noobs assist at TYM. It seems to be a very active community, so if you’re interested it’s worth reading more there.
Thanks to Jchensor for elaborating on his views, it helps.
I must however say that i am personally very glad that this game is different to street fighter. It is faster, and it comes down to constantly making reads. Either you are wrong or you are right when you go for the damage. It’s you’re job to break down your opponent, to train him/her to go for a certain option so you can finally pick the right time to lay it all out. As James Chen said, there are mids and lows to be concerned about. But beyond that there are patterns that you may be able to change aswell as resets and throws and so on.
I believe Tom Brady said that Johnny Cage had the only juggle reset he knew of, but i’ve found one with Sonya aswell.
All hes complaining about is how combos won’t take months to find out and put to use.
You really shouldn’t look for Street Fighter stuff, this is a different game so you need to adapt. But i will try to give you something on this subject anyways.
C.Mk hadouken is a safe good range combo, i’d compare it to Scorpions 3,3,4 though since there is no fadc here you won’t get more out of it unless you make it unsafe by throwing a spear in the middle of it. As is though, i find that they fill the pretty much the same role; Safe damage that you can throw out just because. And for a single normal id point out his standing roundhouse as it’s quick and has good range. It works great as an anti air, though that is probably all you’d use it for, but still, it is a good tool.