Jak and Daxter Thread: The Dynamic Duo

Classic Fighting Games Playstation All Stars
1

This is the thread for all things Jak and Daxter in PSASBR. I am still pretty new with the character myself, so I want to extend thanks and credit to those on the playstationallstararena and allstararena forums, most notably SonicThedgehog15, basilisk367, nobody, and Godot for contributing most of what I know about the character. I’ll link to their posts on their respective forums if people want me too.

Post 1: Meter Levels, Pro/Con, Gameplay Strategy

Meter Levels (Credit to UltraDavid):
Lv1: 150
Lv2: 175 (325)
Lv3: 425 (750)
Amount of AP lost on throw: 15%.

Jak’s Pros[FONT=Arial][SIZE=15px]:[/FONT][/SIZE]
[FONT=Arial][SIZE=15px]+: Some of the best mobility options in the air, which he employs to avoid trouble/supers, approach zoning characters effectively, and in general conduct his trademark hit-and-run style of play.[/FONT][/SIZE]
[FONT=Arial][SIZE=15px]+: Amazing level 3. [/FONT][/SIZE]
[FONT=Arial][SIZE=15px]+: Great unique moves in S.2, (j)D.3, and jS.1.[/FONT][/SIZE]

Jak’s Cons:
[FONT=Arial][SIZE=15px] -: His AP gain is very unorthodox, and the AP on most of his moves are just terrible. He possesses no lengthy or AP filled combos and must instead rely on a constant stream of smaller, more frequent attacks to get enough meter to win. Can be good when you get used to it but you really have to play smarter than most of the cast to build about as much as they do.[/FONT][/SIZE]
-: Poor Level 1 and 2 Supers relative to the rest of the cast, must rely on situational combo and/or dodge punishes and use as oki in the corner/get lucky on occupied opponents respectively.
[FONT=Arial][SIZE=15px]-: Very poor selection of throws except side near a wall. Down throw even gives them 30 AP![/FONT][/SIZE]

General Strategy:

[FONT=Arial][SIZE=15px]First and foremost Jak operates as a disruption character. Much like Sly Cooper, his gameplan is to make up for his own poor AP gain by constantly interrupting the combos and supers of other characters. Unlike Sly who achieves disruption through stealth, Jak does so with the range and AoE of his moves. You should most commonly be using his S.2, jS.1, and (j)D.3 for these purposes as they are the most effective and net the most AP, but there are several other disruption moves you should use where the others will not work, notably (j)S.3, and (j)U.2.[/FONT][/SIZE]

[FONT=Arial][SIZE=15px]Perhaps Jak’s greatest asset is his aerial mobility. Thanks to jS.1 and jU/D1 providing excellent horizontal and vertical movement respectively and even jN.1 to slow and modify his usual descent, Jak can place himself anywhere on the battlefield and dodge attacks (further limiting opponents’ AP) and with skill and a little luck even avoid dying from some Lv3 supers. [/FONT][/SIZE]
[FONT=Arial][SIZE=15px]Thanks to this mobility Jak can often place himself where he thrives most: a middling range which keeps close-range fighters out but is still too close for comfort for zoners (ideally, a range where he can jS.1 or S.2 consistently). Jet Board is fantastic at closing in on keepaway characters if you time it properly, and against those that like to go HAM in your face he has a wide array of moves that launch them right back out in (j)N.1, jS.1, S.2, and S.Throw.[/FONT][/SIZE]

[FONT=Arial][SIZE=15px]In those infrequent instances in which Jak goes on offense (ie looking to land a Lv1 or 2), he should always do so when his enemies are against a wall. It isn’t too hard for Jak to put them there given the knockback on his aforementioned moves, and he has his greatest success in getting Level 1 (situational combo, forward roll punish) and 2 (Hits enemies knocked in the corner on wakeup) here.[/FONT][/SIZE]

[FONT=Arial][SIZE=15px]Jak’s Super Management is heavily dependent on your ability to score kills with his Level 1. If you are a pro at tech punishing you will really have no problem scoring well with him but realistically, most players will need to save up for his Level 3 and get virtually all of their kills with that. This is why Jak’s disruption game and mobility are so essential: by constantly interrupting other players in their Lv1 super attempts, extensive combos/zoning tactics that build to level 3, in addition to never dying himself, Jak can ensure that his Lv3 is the only one used in the round, making it very likely that he will win. Even with a great disruptive game it is impossible to throw his first two supers out the window, however, because Light Jak won’t be as efficient on the larger stages than frequent use of 1 and 2.[/FONT][/SIZE]

[FONT=Arial][SIZE=15px]Jak suffers in FFA compared to the rest of the cast because he has to patrol 3 other characters and is far more likely to have someone giving him constant pressure. Instead, Jak is best put to use in 2v2, where he must only worry about two, has someone to keep the pressure off, and has less pressure to hit his Lv1 and 2s. Naturally, he is best paired with someone who can hold their own in close-quarters combat, has powerful and accessible lv1 and 2s, and occupy more than one opponent at a time.[/FONT][/SIZE]

Advanced Tools:
Here are a few tactics and options I would not recommend dabblers to employ but think that anyone trying to get really good with Jak will need to use. Feel free to suggest your own and I will add them.

  1. Using Lv1 as a counter-killer:
    Jak’s “total garbage” level 1 actually has significant use as a direct counter to certain actions and moves of your opponent’s, and knowing exactly when and where to utilize it will not only result in obtaining the most kills Jak can get (ESPECIALLY in 2v2) but also severely limit several of your opponent’s actions. Watch out of course, as mistiming the move is a waste of 125AP and will likely get yourself killed. Besides the universal guaranteed kills of Lv1 (properly punishing a roll through you or an air dodge above you), there are many common moves and supers that are at the mercy of Lv1, especially if they involve going airborne.

Common Normal Moves that can be Precursor’d:
Any ground pound attacks (Jak, Parappa, Spike, Nariko, Drake, FP, Coles, etc)
Moves with excessive horizontal movement (Big Daddy Dash, Parappa Skateboard dive, Coles’ grind and rocketing towards move, Sir Dan’s charge, Jak’s Jet Board, Raiden’s dashes etc)

Common Supers that can be Precursor’d:
During their movement: Parappa Lv2 (likely the easiest, shuts him down hard too), FP lv2, Jak lv2. Difficult on a smart opponent: Ratchet Lv2, Big Daddy Lv2, Raiden Lv2, Heihachi Lv2).
Prior to activation:
Some supers have their user get very close to opponents before they activate them, usually safe in the fact they are invincible/put enemies into stun. If you can predict the enemy derping towards you to go for this they are incredibly prone to Lv1, and sometimes they can even activate the move during Lv1 startup, making them waste all that meter:
Examples: Raiden Lv2, Evil Cole Lv2, Big Daddy Lv2.

  1. Cancelling the startup time of Blaster:
    If you input S.2 right before you land Jak will begin to fire his Blaster immediately on touching ground. This is useful for punishing characters after dodging an attack with a jump, can followup on people pursuing a jetboard retreat (can use after all but the shortest of hops following jS.1), or faking out opponents if they are expecting a jS.1 approach on your short hops.

  2. Building meter without Blaster (or,How to Handle Jak’s worst stages):

2

Post 2: Moveset Analysis and Videos

Moveset analysis:

1s:

N.1: Daxter Spin Kick. AP: Varies (22-44).
Can be moved left or right during spin, final hit knocks opponents away. While simply moving towards the enemy will net either 22, 30, or 34 AP based on their hitbox, you can wiggle backwards and forwards to get 15 or so more AP with the move. This seems trivial but really, Jak needs all the extra AP he can get. Jak’s Square string being condensed to a single move helps in that you can get AP quickly without worrying about being interrupted, but it also makes it quite unsafe on block, so try to use it only as a punish.

S.1: Dashing Forward Punch. AP: 5.
Very unsafe, recommend short hop jS.1 over this in virtually every situation unless you combo into it. Though even then it gives less meter, you can follow it with N.1 for an uppercut from which you can either jetboard away to safety or follow up with Lv1 to catch opponents who don’t move after their recovery.

U.1: Uppercut: AP: 20.
Not a strong move offensively though it can anti-air in some situations.

D.1: Super Dive Attack. AP: 20.
Jak jumps straight up then dives back down. Likely the worst of the “Ground Pounds” in All-Stars, especially with its inability to be followed up with a combo. Even so, clicking N.1 or D.1 after the move makes Jak do another one very quickly (only once), which can be used to try to catch blockers who think the move is over (works best if you only do it once before, or ran off with jetboard before instead of the second dive).

jN.1: Air Daxter Spin Kick. AP: 30avg, 22 or 34 on some characters.
Identical in damage and purpose with the grounded version, the horizontal movement adds to Jak’s mobility and slows Jak’s fall to mess with opponents.

jS.1: Jet Board Dash. AP: 5, 30.
One of Jak’s best moves for a variety of reasons. It’s speed and horizontal reach makes it a great move for either avoiding opponents or general approaching and catching up with zoners, especially when short hopped. On block it is mostly safe because Jak will fly through the opponent. Can follow up on Hit with N.1 for a 30AP followup that knocks the opponent away.

jU.1: Air Uppercut. AP: 20.
While just as limited offensively as the ground version, in the air uppercut gives Jak a vertical triple jump, acting as a nice compliment to JBD’s horizontal range.

j.D.1: Air Super Dive Attack. AP: 20.
Identical to grounded version except it can also aid in mobility by making Jak fall extremely fast, but its startup makes it a risky move to use to runaway from close opponents.

2s:

N.2: Arc Wielder. AP: 4. Can be held down for up to 4 hits and be moved up and down using dpad.
Not a great move, but the laser goes through platforms and solid walls so there is that.

S.2: Blaster. AP: 10 per hit (max 3). Knocks back and gives knockdown if all 3 hit.
Jak’s best Normal: you will want to use it whenever you can. Has strong range and builds AP very well with continuous use. Its knockdown effect is great for keeping people off you and sending them to the corner. You can try launching only 1-2 shot bursts, then following up with 3 more, to build more AP and keep opponents on their guard.

U.2: Peace Maker. AP: 5. Opponent is shocked for a second.
Launches a fast bolt diagonally up that explodes, shocking everyone in its radius. Not to be used often because of its terrible AP and poor comboability, but great for anti-air and makes opponents think twice about simply jumping towards you to avoid Blaster. Can also set a partner up in 2v2.

D.2: Beam Reflexor. AP: 5 per hit. Can shoot up to 3.
A faster Anti-Air than Peace Maker but with no knockback or stun. Can be used at the edge of a ledge to fire diagonally downwards. It ricochets off the ground so it will bounce in different directions depending on how level the floor is, which can either screw you up or defend unique areas depending on your map knowledge.

jN.2: Air Arc Wielder.
Identical to Arc Wielder.

jS.2: Air Blaster. AP: 10 per hit. Fires up to 3 shots.
Identical to its grounded version. In the air it is pretty useless because all 3 hits need to land for pushback/knockdown which is impossible with Jak falling down. If timed just before Jak lands, however, it removes the move’s startup.

jU.1: Air Peace Maker. AP: 5.
Virtually identical to grounded version, but a slightly longer shock duration (unconfirmed).

j.D1: Air Beam Reflexor. AP: 5 per hit. Up to 3 shots.
Fires the projectiles downwards at a diagonal. No real reason to use this move.

3s:

N.3: Gyro Burster. AP: 5 per hit.
Summons a droid above Jak’s head that moves forward and shoots 10 short bullets downward. Can be destroyed by enemy attacks. The bullets have no effect on your opponent besides your AP gain, and this is in general a poor move that gives less AP than Blaster in most situations. Even so, its slightly upward spawning and downward fire can help Jak in areas of uneven footing that make Blaster useless, and should be deployed whenever you have nothing better to do.

S.3: Needle Laser. AP: 2 per hit, 10 if all hit at maximum range.
Fires 3 short range projectiles with moderate tracking. Like many of Jak’s guns its poor AP gain makes it improper for frequent use but its homing allows it to disrupt enemies efficiently now and again.

U.3: Mass Inverter. AP: 5.
Incapacitates nearby opponents and sends them slowly upwards. Terrible move with poor startup with its only merits being setting up partner supers or comboing into JBD-follow up.

D.3: Wave Concussor. AP: 20.
Another one of Jak’s very best moves to be used frequently. Can be charged for a second to produce a sphere with a large AoE that puts opponents in the air. Uncharged, it puts the foe on their butt, allowing you to follow with JBD (highest AP), S.1>N.1 (for a quick escape), or Blaster (if you want to stay still/push them back). Uncharged also combos into Level 1 super if done with both players against a wall. Can also be roll canceled during charge. Finally, great options on Oki(more on that later).

jN3: Air Gyro Burster.
Identical to Gyro Burster.

jS3: Air Needle Laser.
Identical to Needle Laser.

jU3: Air Mass Inverter.
Identical to Mass Inverter but even suckier.

jD3: Air Wave Concussor. AP: 20.
Just as great as its Ground version and with different utility. Can also be charged. Charge version has increased AoE, can change direction of fire while in air, and sends Jak further back in recoil (avoiding certain moves). Great for breaking up cluster****s in FFA.

Throws:

U.R3: Jet Board Flip: Sends opponent upwards, no seeable followup.

S.R3: Daxter Pummel: Sends opponent far horizontally, hard knockdown. Great for setting up Lv2 in corners.

D.R3: Jet Board Spin: Sends them diagonally up backwards. Grants the opponent 30 AP before taking regular throw damage, so DON’T USE THIS.

P.S: No throw that ends in a close knockdown away from walls ; ;

Supers:

Lv1: Precursor Legacy
Jak jumps straight up killing everything around him, which sadly won’t be much . Very poor horizontal range with passable vertical range, this move is best used to punish people who air dodge on top of you or try to roll right next to you. Can combo after an uncharged D.3 deep in the corner.

Lv2: Dark Jak’s Dark Bomb
Jak poses then does a short floaty jump before slamming the ground and creating a surprisingly large AoE. Slow and predictable this should never ever be thrown willy nilly, but can have moderate success if opponents are occupied. Is best used after you knock someone down in the corner with Blaster or Side Throw, because with proper timing and spacing the blast is unavoidable unless they delay getting up (more in the Oki section).

Lv3: Light Jak
A fantastic Level 3 in which Jak careens around the stage reminiscent of Pikachu’s Volt Tackle. Usually it is best to set up your shield with 2 and crash into as many people as possible, saving the ranged blasts of 1 only when you know they will hit and do not use 3 it is useless.

Videos:

Reaper’s combo video:
[media=youtube]8sIKCPJdIe8[/media]

[FONT=Arial][SIZE=15px]Here are 3 2v2 matches featuring LightEcoSage[/FONT][/SIZE]

[media=youtube]iXFnpOyBeYg[/media]

[FONT=Arial][SIZE=15px][media=youtube]4S9Jd85S2c0[/media][/FONT][/SIZE]

The start of a series of 10 Jak Ranked match collections from my buddy ProtonicShadow:
[media=youtube]-RVdqdggEK4[/media]

3

Totally updated and revamped a lot of the first two posts. I’d really appreciate some feedback, even negative, or am I the only Jak player here? He’s not THAT bad…

4

so on some characters, you can hit 1 after f+1. since it leads to an eject tornado, it gives you some nice breathing room to decide which gun you’re gonna go with next. the timing feels weird but it’s not too hard to get down.

alternately, if they’re at the right distance from the wall, you can maybe combo with u+1 or lv 1 after.

5

So I decided to give Jak a chance, and man, he’s a lot of fun. His gameplan is pretty unique - he really does feel planned around stopping other people from gaining AP, rather than getting it himself (though this doesn’t mean I don’t think there are some balance issues here…)

A few notes I’ve picked up while playing him 2v2 -

Level 2 has deceptively long range, and most people just don’t expect it to reach as far is it does. So far sidehtrow in corner - level 2 tech trap seems Jak’s most consistent method of killing, short of Level 3. If I can force a tech roll on a small platform directly above Jak (I’m thinking ape escape/locoroco/ittlebig planet/etc.), his level 1 is pretty much guaranteed as no matter what direction they roll or if they drop down the level 1 hits, as long as it’s time correctly. This is another pretty good way I use to mop up the game after doing some damage with jak’s level 3.

d.3 charge followed by f.1, u.1, or d.1 is a cornerstone of my game, the 1 I use depending on whether it hits/guardbreaks/whiffs determines which 1 I use. Patience really helps Jak’s game - with this tactic you can easily frustrate opponents and slowly build AP while they build nothing. Though some good guessing and dodging skills will defend foes from this tactic I’ve yet to play anyone who can punish Jak for doing it, and when they try I usually go straight into my f.2/f.3/u.2 zoning game.

How do you use Level 3? I usually blast everyone off screen with square, then sit on top of spawns with the light shield (triangle) activated. It seems the most effective method so far for generating kills.

I think his square moves are underrated actually. All of them (except f.1 on the ground, sadly) have great recovery, good range, and surprising priority. I find myself playing stupid oki games with it and though it doesn’t lead to anything, it is a great way to ensure THEY aren’t getting AP while you slowly are. They are great utility moves, and it really shines once you get a sense of Jak’s movement how this is deceptively powerful.

I personally like f.3 a lot. It’s a great way to stuff people trying to jump in on you, as it usually tracks anyone close enough. and lets you reset the situation in Jak’s favor into zonging/1 mindgames/guateber.

Also, Sam Vimes is not only one of the best characters ever written, but also authored by one of the finest minds in Fantasy ever to grace the page. Great taste, Commander Vimes.

6

Great stuff, I definitely agree with the f+3 comment. do a short hop into it and it’s just like this wall that they can’t get past and then you recover so quickly. I think it’s such a good tool.

7

I think it is a good tool too, better with each round I play, but in FFA I feel with its low AP continuously stuffing with this =somehow the Kronos I wasn’t paying attention to has Lv3 and I have nothing. I guess it is all in moderation.

Very interesting stuff with S.1 I had no idea and that does build meter. I can test whether lv1 can combo with some awkward wallbounces but the more I play the game the less common I see wallbounces as being. Oh well.

And thanks, Vimes is indeed the man.

8

Now when you say combo with Level one from the EJ wallbounce do you indeed mean combo from the wall, or a pretty nice tech trap? Cause I need all the combos I can get into dat Lv1. I’ll have to try all those S.1 setups when I get home.

9

I’ve tried to get a level 1 combo off a walbounce after reading this, but had no success. Hopefully someone can pull it off, because that sounds really useful. At the moment I just tend to go for level 3 and then clean up with level 2 tech chases in the corner.

Also, on his d.1, I’ve found myself incorporating it more into game and finding a lot of surprising success. It’s definitely the weirdest ground pound in All-Stars, and it has a weird area of effect. I rarely am punished for it, because of it’s weird bounce mechanic. It’s a great way to throw people off trying to chase Jak down when I’m playing keep-away with j.1’s; they don’t expect to be suddenly hit. If it hits, you can go for another ground bounce, j.u./s.1 depending on where they are, j.d.3 charge mindgames (which are so effective on an opponent already frustrated with Jak’s trolly keep away) or simply run away to get a better vantage point on the stage you want. The rage a good Jak zoning plan can induce is really the best; I’ve had my fair share of ragequitters complaining about unfair tactics/OP Jak :stuck_out_tongue:

I’ve been playing the Sly Cooper match up with Jak a lot recently, and I think it’s really in Jak’s favor. Though his jetboard combo whiffs on standing Sly, which is dumb, when I do hit with the first hit of j.s.1 I tend to land and then go for a pseudo “tic throw”. Once the Sly cottons on to that, it become an interesting throw/ jumping s.1 mix-up after landing j.s.1 on the ground. Also, once Jak figures out Sly’s decoy patterns, it becomes a matter of simply charging/waiting to throw out your pojectiles and simply hitting him. It’s also easy for Jak to stay mobile and away from Sly’s teleport stuff, which is an important tool for Sly that’s pretty ineffective in the Sly-Jak match=up.

10

Well I learned that a pre-emptive level 1 when a Raiden dashes towards you to activate level2 is pretty lulzy. I managed to stuff the activation of it 3 times tonight.

I think one of Jak’s biggest enemies is the stage selection. He has a few stages where Blaster just does not work at all (Columbia springs to mind) and it becomes a real struggle to hit level 3 in these areas.

Sent from my DROID2 GLOBAL using Tapatalk 2

11

oh, I’m sorry for misleading you guys. I said it might lead to a level 1; I was just theoryfightering that shit in my head. definitely too much recovery time on 1 to work, unfortunately ; ;

12

I put more work into Jak lately and I’m beginning to see how good he actually is. I must say that Jak is a very good character to make comebacks with. I put into a 2v1 situation where my partner didn’t load into the game and still managed to pull a landslide victory. Jak has just earn a spot in my regular rotation

13

I saw a lot of Jak’s online last night and many of them were lv200+ and very solid players. Made me feel warm and fuzzy.

Maybe it is just because you are an amazing player Hawkingbird? What do you mean by comebacks, because in my eyes I find him to be the opposite. Especially in FFAs if I am not playing very good from the start then I start to feel hopeless pretty early on.
I feel much better holding on to a lead rather than chasing it, what with Jak’s incredible mobility and Level1’s ability to kill easily when they get desperate to try to land hits on you. I feel that is my (and Jak’s) specialty in 2v2: let my partner take an early lead with strong lv1s/build to level3 quick while limiting foe AP, then cementing it with a few Lv1s or building to Level3.

Lastly before I forget my PSN is QuackendriverV, what is all yours?

14

I agree with Hawkingbird. Be it that Jak is really hard to hit, most people don’t know the match-up or we’re just so good, I find Jak is great at making comebacks. Though, in a 2v1 situation against competent players comebacks are very difficult to pull off in general, in my own experience.

I actually like Columbia for Jak lol. There’s a spot on the stairs you can stand where Jak’s blaster shots will juuuust barely make it over to the other side, letting you snipe people across the stage. True, he’s probably better off in stages with more flat planes to work with, but Columbia has made for some lulzy games with Jak.

Also d.3 oki games in a corner/small platform make stupid people ragequit. Hilarious. I suggest you try it online.

My PSN ID is TheMrGrace

15

Now what are we referring to as comebacks? I only play time at the moment as that is what Ranked is, and there I judge a comeback factor as the ability to build AP very quickly and confirm kills equally fast to pull ahead. Getting lv3 at the end isn’t much of a comeback because you worked the whole match for it and are just cashing your kills in then.
Now on stock or kill limit I can definitely see Jak as a comeback machine. After you see their attempts at setting up their kills/combos you can outmanuever them far more easily, and Jak’s kills rely more on punishing their bad moves than particular setups so it is harder for them to change their habits mid-match without denying themselves popular options.

At work now, but I plan to write a section on the first post about more advanced tactics with Jak tonight: Lv1 as a guaranteed counter, erasing startup on Blaster/staggering it, oki, etc. If anyone has any ideas please post them and I will credit you up there!

Sent from my DROID2 GLOBAL using Tapatalk 2

16

When I said Jak is great for comebacks I had stock and kill count in mind. Jak has gotten me out of a couple 2v1 situations in stock and his level 2 allowed me to pull a few clutches in killcount. Only taken Jak on rank once and didn’t fair well.

17

Back on Jak/Sly, while the match is good for Jak one one one I still think in FFA or 2v2 he is one of Jak’s worst. His invisibility and playstyle make him very hard to be disrupted, and a Level3 from Sly wins games especially if you did your job and limited the AP gain of others.

18

Bumping this thread,but completely disagreed with super level 1, Even though it can be horrible ,you don’t have to actually physically touch the opponent to kill when they’re in air,I got three kills from an aerial kill,all of them in the air (FFA Quick) The super level 1 has apparently a blast when he does an uppercut,and also depending on your partner for 2v2 (RECOMMEND BIG DADDY!) it can be really quick kills right there when Big Dad smashes the ground,on the other hand his level does suck,only good for occupied opponents

19

my 7 minute JaK and daxter combo video:
[media=youtube]8sIKCPJdIe8[/media]

new combos, kc’s, and more. Most of the combos are situational and some are purely for exhibition. Hope you enjoy :slight_smile:

20

I certainly did! Wow, Reaper posting in my topic man your Jak is so fun to watch I wish I could use him somewhere close to that level.

Anyway sorry the thread is so outdated, all my time has been going into comp Team Fortress but I’d like to update the main posts tonight or tomorrow. Is there anything in particular you’d like me to add or remove? I know off the top of my head I should add the combo potential of j.D1 and wallbounced j.S1. Maybe I can work in how you use wave disrupter as a kind of blockstring with some moves.